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View Full Version : Are we talking about the right intervention?



blindmansleeps
10-01-2011, 10:45 PM
While skimming through the forum posts, it seems that there's a lot of confusion as to how the tear was even made in the fabric of the universes without Peter. I want to try to clear that up a little with a thought.

1) PETER STILL EXISTED IN BOTH UNIVERSES! However, in both universes, Peter died as a child. This one is obvious, I think; but, I've still seen a few posts wondering why Walter would have gone to the other side if Peter did not exist, as if Peter never existed.

2) There are two interventions by September. But, one was not really an intervention, per se. The other, however, was.

The first instance in which September disrupted Walternate in his lab just when the cure was to be found was not an *intervention*. It was simply a bad coincidence. An intervention is when someone steps in to purposely alter a course, and September *accidentally* caused Walternate to miss the sign of Peternate's cure.

Side note: Why would September be in the lab in the first place? Well, we know that the Observers have been caught observing very important moments in history. Walternate creating a cure for whatever disease Peter had could potentially be a huge event in the other world--something September might want to witness. This, of course, is just and idea.

However, the second instance was definitely an intervention. When the Observer jumped into the lake to save Peter and Walter on their way back to the 'universe portal,' September was clearly intervening.

3) Now, if this second case is the intervention that December was referring to in 4.1, this means that Walter would have still went over to the other side to save Peter, but Peter would have died in the lake while Walter lived. Although we haven't been pointed in this direction yet, we might soon be shown that Peternate was found dead in a lake under mysterious circumstances, or simply went missing and was never found.

4) Although, this makes Peter's role in the primary timeline a little odd. If it wasn't really Peter that upset the balance between blueverse and redverse, but just Walter's infiltration of the redverse, then what role did Peter play that was so important? Was his role to simply offer a route by which the universes can cooperate? But, if that's the case, then why didn't the Observers go farther back, trying to stop Walter from infiltrating the other side in the first place, thereby stopping the entire universe-collapse altogether?

fragaria x phile
10-01-2011, 11:15 PM
I think though, that an observer once said 'you've intervened' to September. I cannot remember the exact context and if it's absolutely certain to what he was referring to....

I think that while it's important to distinguish between these two events, we should not assume that the Observers use the word 'intervene' soley when there was the intent.

1) I don't think it's absolute that Peter died in a child in both universes. Highly, highly likely, and suggested, yes. I do think that there is the sliver of possibility that Peter of the blueverse died, as he had over here, but that perhaps, just maybe, Walternate did find a cure, because the Observer, in this revisit, didn't distract Walternate. So Peter--as we knew him and as he knew himself--maybe sacrificed himself and his life with Walter, Olivia, and the Blue Team, and unknowingly Lil' Nugget--to go back and reset the timeloop so that the Observer wouldn't be distracting...and Walternate could save his son. Perhaps he didn't exist solely for some purpose that the the Observers knew about, but that did serve a purpose in giving September the opportunity not to --okay, I'm saying it-- intervene. We know that Walter used saving another Peter as a moralizing excuse to cross over, even if he was sincere in wanting to save him, too. If he wanted to just save the boy, he could have...I dunno, left a cryptic note in the lab? Met with Walternate? He so much as admitted that he knew, at Peter's bedside, that he would be taking him. He may have used it as a distraction from his grief...who knows. Anyway, I do not expect this to happen, but I think it's possible that Observers wanted to make sure that the team over here couldn't know that the boy grew to be a man, not that he ABSOLUTELY did not grow to be a man. We've already seen that the Observers' lines in this regard have wiggle room. I think that if we knew we'd get more seasons, this would actually be a possible storyline.

2) Why was September there? I don't know. It depends on your interpretation of the time paradoxes, time loops, and first people. Ignoring that, I don't think it would be too far of a stretch that September would be stopping into the lab of a man working on a window to another universe or maybe a cure to a disease that would use science that could be applied to other more common diseases with a wider public health and historical impact? The boy was important, but that importance, I think, is subjective. I think that August's episode in which August made Christine important may shed some light into that line...but we need to see more. He may have been important simply by attracting the Observers attention or causing him to folly (if you believe that the machine was built "after" in all the timeloops until now). I personally eschew the more 'destiny' related theories as to Peter's importance.

3) I think this is very likely

4) "Although, this makes Peter's role in the primary timeline a little odd. If it wasn't really Peter that upset the balance between blueverse and redverse, but just Walter's infiltration of the redverse, then what role did Peter play that was so important? Was his role to simply offer a route by which the universes can cooperate? But, if that's the case, then why didn't the Observers go farther back, trying to stop Walter from infiltrating the other side in the first place, thereby stopping the entire universe-collapse altogether? "

I guess we don't know that they are trying to keep the universes from collapsing. Peter may still have been the motivation (either in his life or in his death) for Walter to crossover. Peter, alive (whether for a few more days or for much longer), in the Red Universe, may have had some sort of effect on Walternate that we haven't seen yet.

Sorry for not quoting this. I am having a lot more trouble than usual with the quoting feature.

fragaria x phile
10-01-2011, 11:19 PM
delete

fragaria x phile
10-01-2011, 11:21 PM
Weird double post when I edited above post.