Nina Sharp #1 and #2

[WillTippin]

After tonight's last scene, I think that alt. Nina M̶y̶e̶r̶s̶ Sharp is the one helping David Robert Jones. However in tonight's episode the Nina M̶y̶e̶r̶s̶ Sharp Walter and Lincoln were talking to was the real Nina who has no idea what is going on. Alt. Nina was able to get at the cortexiphan by "being" real Nina. In the last scene I think that the Nina who is kidnapped with Oliva is alt. Nina and she's going to try to manipulate Olivia in the next episode.

Thoughts?

Edit: Thanks for pointing this out ->

3744 3745
Nina Sharp (Fringe) ----- Nina Myers (24)

[AltObserver]

I took it that the Nina we see tied up with Olivia is the real Nina, and the Nina that Walter and Lincoln confronted was a shapeshifter Nina (the same one who was dosing Olivia and conversing with David Robert Jones).
But this being FRINGE, who knows?
Great ending tonight!

[altwally]

After tonight's last scene, I think that alt. Nina Myers is the one helping David Robert Jones. However in tonight's episode the Nina Myers Walter and Lincoln were talking to was the real Nina Myers who has no idea what is going on. Alt. Nina was able to get at the cortexiphan by "being" real Nina. In the last scene I think that the Nina who is kidnapped with Oliva is alt. Nina and she's going to try to manipulate Olivia in the next episode.


Thoughts?

(Actually, it's Nina Sharp.)

[Omniscient_Jay]

What's up with the "Myers" surname?

In any case, I think it's a valid possibility. We have three scenarios at play here:

-Red Nina has subverted Blue Nina's place in the Blue World; she has been acting as Blue Nina all this time, while Blue Nina herself was captured (in which case the Nina at the end of the episode was her).
-Both Blue Nina and Red Nina are working together, and one Nina was placed at MD/the Bridge, while the other was thrown into the den with Olivia to fool Olivia
-There is only one Nina, and she gave Jones her genetic material so that one of his Shapeshifters could assume her identity.

If Nina/Jones/Alt-Broyles wasn't complicated enough, now they throw us this. :P

[Ironheart]

I don't think we're dealing with a shapeshifter Nina at all. I believe the Nina at MD is from the Red Universe while the Nina who is tied up with Olive is the Blue Universe Nina.

[heirofloki]

What's up with the "Myers" surname?

In any case, I think it's a valid possibility. We have three scenarios at play here:

-Red Nina has subverted Blue Nina's place in the Blue World; she has been acting as Blue Nina all this time, while Blue Nina herself was captured (in which case the Nina at the end of the episode was her).
-Both Blue Nina and Red Nina are working together, and one Nina was placed at MD/the Bridge, while the other was thrown into the den with Olivia to fool Olivia
-There is only one Nina, and she gave Jones her genetic material so that one of his Shapeshifters could assume her identity.

If Nina/Jones/Alt-Broyles wasn't complicated enough, now they throw us this. :P

I'm going with 1 or 3 (preferably 3). I just can't see how Jones would be asking a shifter for directions, so that one was definitely a "real" version of Nina Sharp.

I'd really like it to be red!Nina. We've never had red Nina before. And the only thing better than one Nina Sharp is TWO Ninas. (:happy15:) I don't count bot versions, so there.

[Omniscient_Jay]

I'm going with 1 or 3 (preferably 3). I just can't see how Jones would be asking a shifter for directions, so that one was definitely a "real" version of Nina Sharp.

I'd really like it to be red!Nina. We've never had red Nina before. And the only thing better than one Nina Sharp is TWO Ninas. (:happy15:) I don't count bot versions, so there.

Unless the Shapeshifter was the one in the dungeon with Olivia.

But yeah, a Nina-Nina team would be epic. Or a Nina-usurping-Nina development.

Well played, Fringe. :happy15:

[fragaria x phile]

I really think all of these are possible. I'm hoping it's not a shapeshifter...I just think it's a bit of a cop-out.

[KayeXXXElla]

After tonight's last scene, I think that alt. Nina M̶y̶e̶r̶s̶ Sharp is the one helping David Robert Jones. However in tonight's episode the Nina M̶y̶e̶r̶s̶ Sharp Walter and Lincoln were talking to was the real Nina who has no idea what is going on. Alt. Nina was able to get at the cortexiphan by "being" real Nina. In the last scene I think that the Nina who is kidnapped with Oliva is alt. Nina and she's going to try to manipulate Olivia in the next episode.

Thoughts?

I agree! Why would they keep the blue Nina tied up with Olivia facing each other like that? It makes perfect sense that the Alt. Nina is pretending to be blue verse Nina that raised Olivia and question her. This is probably phase two. I think they wanted us to believe blue verse Nina was working with DRJ this whole time and she wasn't.

Just like Blue Lincoln was able to scan his hand as red Lincoln, (foreshadowing)? Red Nina did the same and swapped out the Cortexi bottles.

[Omniscient_Jay]

I really think all of these are possible. I'm hoping it's not a shapeshifter...I just think it's a bit of a cop-out.

I agree.

For now, I'm sticking with Red Nina taking Blue Nina's place, with the latter probably not being antagonistic.

[altwally]

She conspicuously used her left hand on the scanner. I think it's blue Nina...

[heirofloki]

Unless the Shapeshifter was the one in the dungeon with Olivia.

But yeah, a Nina-Nina team would be epic. Or a Nina-usurping-Nina development.

Well played, Fringe. :happy15:

Haha, I just posted the exact same thing on a different thread.

You know where I stand on the other two. :P

altwally, wouldn't shifter Nina have the same genetic configuration, ergo same handprint as the original? I see no problem with her being a shifter (I just don't like it)

[{Drea}]

She conspicuously used her left hand on the scanner. I think it's blue Nina...Blue Nina is right handed.

[heirofloki]

Blue Nina is right handed.

In our timeline.

I don't recall if we've seen her writing, or even seen her robotic arm in this timeline....have we?

[altwally]

Blue Nina is right handed.
Yes, but her right hand is a replacement, or at least in the original timeline. Sure, maybe she didn't lose her arm in this timeline but we don't know that for sure. It was just too obvious that she used her left hand.

[The Question]

THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO WAY TO BE SURE.

-It could be that Nina/Alt-Nina are playing a game together
-Bell pulling all the strings?
-The "Real" Nina in the dungeon is actually the shapeshifter (with DJR it's possible)
-DJR betrayed Nina
-Alt-Nina made a move on Nina or vice versa

need I keep going? :P

Oh and ALL arguments on the whole arm thing are irrelevant because of timeline shifts and the fact that the people who write this show could do that sort of thing as a red herring because they do it All the time. (specifically referring to the hand scanner and the stressing the fact of showing both arms and hands.)
[not trying to shoot anyone down, just saying that this has my brain going crazy.]

[dolemite]

and here i was after watching the promo thinking the episode would suck

man, was i wrong...

---

anyways looks like someone snatched Olivia when she went to the restroom and they took her to the same spot where theyre holding the real Nina

---

btw, whats with the 24 reference?

[{Drea}]

Yes, but her right hand is a replacement, or at least in the original timeline. Sure, maybe she didn't lose her arm in this timeline but we don't know that for sure. It was just too obvious that she used her left hand. No, I was saying if she is using her left hand now then it is Altnina.

[elif]

Yep, finally we get to see 2 Ninas, yay!

[PB]

After tonight's last scene, I think that alt. Nina Sharp is the one helping David Robert Jones. However in tonight's episode the Nina Sharp Walter and Lincoln were talking to was the real Nina who has no idea what is going on. Alt. Nina was able to get at the cortexiphan by "being" real Nina. In the last scene I think that the Nina who is kidnapped with Oliva is alt. Nina and she's going to try to manipulate Olivia in the next episode.

Thoughts?

I want to believe that WillTippin's theory is the correct one, as has been pointed out, there are so many different possibilities that could explain what we witnessed. However, of all those theory's WillTippin's is the only one that made me wish "DAMMIT I WISH I HAD THOUGHT OF THAT". This episode was pure class from start to finish, the best episode of Fringe I've seen since the first and second seasons. . . until the last scene . . . something about the warm motherly Nina tied up in the dark room with Olivia. . . I don't like her. The Nina I've come to know and love, (from the first three seasons and even her rewritten timeline counterpart this season) is cagey, inscrutable, and unpredictable, and NOT a warm doting mother. Our Nina may have raised Nina from childhood in this timeline after Olivia's mother died and she killed her stepfather, but that doesn't mean she has to turn into a sappy, doting mother hen . . . our Nina is a barracuda.

What I'm trying to say is I desperately want that solicitous puppy dog eyed Nina tied up with Olivia to be the BAD Nina who's been dosing Olivia and who offered to make her soup when she was sick at home with Migraines. . . Nina Sharpe is the CEO of Massive Dynamic, SHE DOES NOT MAKE SOUP! I HATED that scene, I desperately want to believe that the sappy soup making Nina is an evil red Nina laying it on real thick to deceive Olivia in cooperation with DRJ. I also want that same Nina to be the sappy lovey dovey "are you okay Olivia" Nina tied up in the dark room with her, SUBTERFUGE!

If this is the case, that means the cagey viper back at Massive Dynamic with Lee and Walter has no idea how the cortexphan disappeared and is still our Nina, the one who raised Olivia and who isn't all sappy and lame and making SOUP like Martha freaking Stewart.

This scenario would also be a brilliant example of intentionally misdirecting the audience on the part of the writers.

[Walternet]

In my opinion, the Nina we've seen all season isnt the real one. Whether it be her red-verse alternate or one of Jones' shifters the real Nina is in the Dungeon with Olivia. Alternatively, as somebody else also mentioned i do not see DRJ taking orders from one of his shifters (in relation to the computer conversation). Therefore meaning that it must be Nina's alternate and the writers went all S2 finale on our asses :haha:

either way, im on the lookout for Jones' cronies so i dont get damn switched too :ninja:

[PB]

In my opinion, the Nina we've seen all season isnt the real one. Whether it be her red-verse alternate or one of Jones' shifters the real Nina is in the Dungeon with Olivia. Alternatively, as somebody else also mentioned i do not see DRJ taking orders from one of his shifters (in relation to the computer conversation). Therefore meaning that it must be Nina's alternate and the writers went all S2 finale on our asses :haha:

either way, im on the lookout for Jones' cronies so i dont get damn switched too :ninja:

I agree that it was Nina's alternate conversing with Jones through the Computer, but I don't think the Nina we've seen all season long is necessarily Alt-Nina. In fact, I think we've been seeing BOTH Nina's on and off throughout the Season, Alt-Nina is posing as the real Nina to deceive Olivia and is also dosing her with cortexiphan. I believe that the Nina at Massive Dynamic in this episode is the "real" Nina, our Nina (it's a great theory WillTippin came up with IMO and I'm embracing it). We've seen a lot of our Nina this season I believe, but as for the Nina who's been dosing our Olivia with Cortexiphan, getting all maternal and offering to cook our Olivia SOUP (and offering her pills?? . . . fishy!!), conversing with Jones using a computer, and showing annoyingly solicitous concern towards Olivia in the dark room at the end of this episode. . . THAT'S alt-Nina. Our Nina is back at Massive Dynamic with a very pissed off Walter and a very suspicious Lincoln and she's wondering: "where is Olivia? Is she okay? And who the HELL could have possibly breached our second tier biometric security protocol!?"

Go Nina!

[Walternet]

I agree that it was Nina's alternate conversing with Jones through the Computer, but I don't think the Nina we've seen all season long is necessarily Alt-Nina. In fact, I think we've been seeing BOTH Nina's on and off throughout the Season, Alt-Nina is posing as the real Nina to deceive Olivia and is also dosing her with cortexiphan. I believe that the Nina at Massive Dynamic in this episode is the "real" Nina, our Nina (it's a great theory WillTippin came up with IMO and I'm embracing it). We've seen a lot of our Nina this season I believe, but as for the Nina who's been dosing our Olivia with Cortexiphan, getting all maternal and offering to cook our Olivia SOUP (and offering her pills?? . . . fishy!!), conversing with Jones using a computer, and showing annoyingly solicitous concern towards Olivia in the dark room at the end of this episode. . . THAT'S alt-Nina.

I get it. So Alt-Nina has been in the background simultaneously acting as the master puppetier, dosing Liv and feeding her soup whilst the real Nina is wandering around massive dynamic clueless and completely mind-***************d


Our Nina is back at Massive Dynamic with a very pissed off Walter and a very suspicious Lincoln and she's wondering: "where is Olivia? Is she okay? And who the HELL could have possibly breached our second tier biometric security protocol!?"

...She pauses and lets out a slight grimace, "Me !" * Nina cackles psychotically*

[dALTnielle]

37473748

The 2 Nina's are dressed differently, so they are clearly different.

The very last scene was with Nina... I thought she was also kidnapped and I thought she was acting scared... but I'm not sure now... that last image with her, after Olivia lost consciousness, kind of told me that she's not that innocent...

And the Nina at MD looked like she really had no idea. She could have said that another person might have access to the Cortexiphan, so she can get away with it, blaming it on someone else.
When you're saying that you;re the only one who has access to something that's been stolen, you're kind of accusing yourself, unless you really are innocent and clueless...

So unlike my original thought, now I think it's the opposite... AltNina is with Olivia pretending to be trapped and ourNina is at MD, all clueless.

And I think we've seen both Ninas this season.

[Subject 9]

I really like the idea of seeing AltNina and (normal?!) Nina throughout the entire season so far. It makes perfect sense, and is the classic misdirect. In fact, I am a little disappointed I didn't come up with this theory weeks ago!

I am also thinking that the real Nina is with Walter, and really has no idea what is going on, and that Alt Nina is with Olivia and will try and get information..... or maybe manipulate her into doing something. Especially now she has the memories from the original timeline, that means she remembers how to (kind of) use her powers.

The whole left hand scan, to me means that is the real Nina. You could argue that there is no way to tell in the new timeline, however, Nina lost her right arm before Peter died at Reiden lake. So, in theory, she should still have lost her right arm in this timeline, as time was reset after that event.

So excited to finally see another Nina! This is going to be interesting.....

[Lij]

The only problem I see with Nina at MD with Lincoln and Walter being the real one is the idea that a Nina was conversing with DRG over the computer system that Nina and Bell had previously used when conversing from Bluverse to Redverse. Unless that Nina just happened to have been at MD when conversing with DRG. Strange....

[heirofloki]

The only problem I see with Nina at MD with Lincoln and Walter being the real one is the idea that a Nina was conversing with DRG over the computer system that Nina and Bell had previously used when conversing from Bluverse to Redverse. Unless that Nina just happened to have been at MD when conversing with DRG. Strange....

You mean DRJ, right?

I don't see a problem with her being at MD. It's her domain, so to speak. If she spends all her time at the office, she would also plot her deceptions at and call her partners in crime from the office, no? Unless you're hinting at something else and I'm just to tired to see it right now. :ninja:

In all, I don't mind her being a real Nina (red, blue, or whatever). I do mind her suddenly being a shifter, since we already saw Jones waiting for instructions. Maybe she got willingly "replaced" after that in order to be pseudo-kidnapped and better pressure Olivia during her captivity. But that'd be a little to evil-cackle baddie, I think. And it'd be adding a little too much (unnecessary) convolution to our already convoluted show.

[Lij]

Yeah... DRJ - left index finger vs right index finger.

It would mean the faux-Nina got into MD only to communicate with DRG while the real Nina still had access. And why not use a QE'd typewriter like DRJ's earlier shapeshifter?

But here's an even stranger idea, perhaps both Nina's (from the Bluverse & Redverse - or shapeshifter) are in league with DRJ. They would be playing off one against the other and let the one (a shapeshifter) who is more expendable be destroyed only to still have a Bluverse Nina be in power and still supporting DRJ.

[heirofloki]

Yeah... DRJ - left index finger vs right index finger.

It would mean the faux-Nina got into MD only to communicate with DRG while the real Nina still had access. And why not use a QE'd typewriter like DRJ's earlier shapeshifter?

But here's an even stranger idea, perhaps both Nina's (from the Bluverse & Redverse - or shapeshifter) are in league with DRJ. They would be playing off one against the other and let the one (a shapeshifter) who is more expendable be destroyed only to still have a Bluverse Nina be in power and still supporting DRJ.

Maybe QE'd typewriters are the poor-man solution. :P

Yeah, OJ proposed that the two Ninas might be working together, or that red-Nina had at some point supplanted blue-Nina. I voted for the latter, but the former is also a possibility with which I can get on board.

Or (it was brought up, but I forget where), the Nina with Olivia is the shifter and our one and only blue-Nina is plain evil. But given the previously mentioned possibilities, this inferior plot would just make me sad.

[Lij]

Maybe QE'd typewriters are the poor-man solution. :P

Yeah, OJ proposed that the two Ninas might be working together, or that red-Nina had at some point supplanted blue-Nina. I voted for the latter, but the former is also a possibility with which I can get on board.

Or (it was brought up, but I forget where), the Nina with Olivia is the shifter and our one and only blue-Nina is plain evil. But given the previously mentioned possibilities, this inferior plot would just make me sad.
OJ suggested that?! Dang never can get ahead of him!

:ashamed0001: :P :haha:

[PB]

I really like the idea of seeing AltNina and (normal?!) Nina throughout the entire season so far. It makes perfect sense, and is the classic misdirect. In fact, I am a little disappointed I didn't come up with this theory weeks ago!

I am also thinking that the real Nina is with Walter, and really has no idea what is going on, and that Alt Nina is with Olivia and will try and get information..... or maybe manipulate her into doing something. Especially now she has the memories from the original timeline, that means she remembers how to (kind of) use her powers.

The whole left hand scan, to me means that is the real Nina. You could argue that there is no way to tell in the new timeline, however, Nina lost her right arm before Peter died at Reiden lake. So, in theory, she should still have lost her right arm in this timeline, as time was reset after that event.

So excited to finally see another Nina! This is going to be interesting.....


I'm with you on all of this comrade!!! :happy15:


The only problem I see with Nina at MD with Lincoln and Walter being the real one is the idea that a Nina was conversing with DRG over the computer system that Nina and Bell had previously used when conversing from Bluverse to Redverse. Unless that Nina just happened to have been at MD when conversing with DRG. Strange....

Again, my theory is Alt-Nina has been visiting Massive Dynamic posing as Nina (how else would she have acquired the cortexiphan?) Having said that, it stands to reason she would have also had access to the computer for inter-dimensional communication, just like our Nina would have. Also, it goes without saying (although I've already said it) that I believe Alt-Nina is the one who is been dosing Olivia with cortexiphan, is also the one tied up in that room with Olivia right now :confused0066:, and also the one who offered to make Olivia soup, (Our Nina Sharpe is NOT MARTHA STEWART!!! She does not go into the kitchen and make SOUP! :furious:)

[121a]

I'm not buying the shapeshifter theory. If anyone remember, the show runners did some interviews a while back saying that "we may have already seen alt-nina." I think the Nina who we have seen thus far is Red-Nina and the Nina that was with Olivia was the Blue-Nina.

[brown_betty]

Just like Blue Lincoln was able to scan his hand as red Lincoln, (foreshadowing)? Red Nina did the same and swapped out the Cortexi bottles.

Absolutely! Their genetic make-up is the same. I was going to say, I don`t see why Walter & Lincoln (but obviously especially Walter in this case) couldn`t take into consideration that someone or thing has replaced Nina, particularly due to the fact that these new shapeshifters DO carry the individual`s DNA.

I will stick up for them however and say that that scene was amazing. I think Walter & Lincoln are on to her, I mean the look on Lincoln's face made me think he was/is going to cuff her!! They appear to not be falling into this trap...

[elif]

In my opinion, the Nina we've seen all season isnt the real one. Whether it be her red-verse alternate or one of Jones' shifters the real Nina is in the Dungeon with Olivia.

I second that. I think alter-Broyles is a shapeshifter as well.

[jophan]

Alt-Nina or shapeshifter involved or not, I am completely unable to believe that (AmberBlue) Nina fostered Olivia and her sister for any other reason than to keep Bell's experimental subject close. So I would be very surprised if it was not "our" Nina who supervised the Cortexiphan injections and was messaging with DRJ about the next phase. And I expect it is she who is in the dungeon to elicit Olivia's love/fear response to activate her. A substitute there would be too easily revealed (if, of course, AmberOlivia were herself these days).

[PB]

Alt-Nina or shapeshifter involved or not, I am completely unable to believe that (AmberBlue) Nina fostered Olivia and her sister for any other reason than to keep Bell's experimental subject close. So I would be very surprised if it was not "our" Nina who supervised the Cortexiphan injections and was messaging with DRJ about the next phase. And I expect it is she who is in the dungeon to elicit Olivia's love/fear response to activate her. A substitute there would be too easily revealed (if, of course, AmberOlivia were herself these days).

So your speculation then is that the Nina back at Massive Dynamic is actually Red Nina, holding down the fort as it were as a stand in for the real Nina? (what I mean is, are you supposing that DRJ, Nina, and Alt-Nina are all in cahoots together?)

[flexy633]

I like the idea of blue/red Nina's being in cahoots with DRJ. Hopefully they will not make one of the Nina's a shape shifter. I'm personally sick of the shap shifter nonsense and think it's a waste of time when there are shap shifter eppies.

[jophan]

I think it's more likely that RedNina has been killed to make a pattern for a shapeshifter and that's who is holding the fort at Massive Dynamic. I don't know of any reason to expect Redverse people to cooperate with DRJ, as I think he's a covert operator for the Blueverse government. Along with this, I think Alt-Broyles is dead, Broyles is undercover in his place and a shapeshifter is holding down his job. But, as always, I could be wrong.

[CazzX]

The episode itself made me also think real Nina is at Massive Dynamic and AltNina with Olivia, because the last shot was so simlar to the shot when (Alt)Nina communicated with Jones.
The Answers Teaser however showed Nina being tortured, which makes no sense if it's indeed AltNina with Olivia.
Third option could be something similar to "The Equation".

Very curious.

[Heruss]

I think the redverse Nina is a good strong idea. Stop and think about it... Nina in the Blueverse is the Chief Operations Officer of the biggest corporation in history (which managed to rise to this position in just 25 years). Now consider that William Bell when he crossed over into the redverse did create a Massive Dynamic, but it seems to be primarily an arms corporation rather than an omni-corp [and even then it only supplied pistols] and was likely to be a relatively wealthy front organization for Bell to test out and do the initial reverse engineering required on redverse technology to send blueprints back to the blueverse.

Now, consider what is Redverse Nina likely to be? Without a corresponding omni-corp, or someone to put their faith in her like William Bell did, what's she going to be? A housewife? A clerk in the DMV? It seems obvious to me that she'd be easily jealous of a version of herself who landed on her feet. One that could be easily manipulated into working for DRJ.

We do have to consider also that the Human-shapeshifters work down to the molecular level. So while we know bRoyales is a shifter (see what ah did there? :P) Nina might not be but it is very likely.

[PB]

I think the redverse Nina is a good strong idea. Stop and think about it... Nina in the Blueverse is the Chief Operations Officer of the biggest corporation in history (which managed to rise to this position in just 25 years). Now consider that William Bell when he crossed over into the redverse did create a Massive Dynamic, but it seems to be primarily an arms corporation rather than an omni-corp [and even then it only supplied pistols] and was likely to be a relatively wealthy front organization for Bell to test out and do the initial reverse engineering required on redverse technology to send blueprints back to the blueverse.

Now, consider what is Redverse Nina likely to be? Without a corresponding omni-corp, or someone to put their faith in her like William Bell did, what's she going to be? A housewife? A clerk in the DMV? It seems obvious to me that she'd be easily jealous of a version of herself who landed on her feet. One that could be easily manipulated into working for DRJ.

We do have to consider also that the Human-shapeshifters work down to the molecular level. So while we know bRoyales is a shifter (see what ah did there? :P) Nina might not be but it is very likely.

I see what you did there!

I don't think we can be any more certain that bRoyles is a shapeshifter than we can that the Nina at MD is a shapeshifter. We know that bRoyles is an informant for DRJ, but we don't have confirmation that he's a shifter.

[Cassiopea]

The only problem I see with Nina at MD with Lincoln and Walter being the real one is the idea that a Nina was conversing with DRG over the computer system that Nina and Bell had previously used when conversing from Bluverse to Redverse. Unless that Nina just happened to have been at MD when conversing with DRG. Strange....

I forget when Nina and Jones had that conversation using the quantum entangled computer but wasn't it after Jones came over to the Amber-blue-verse? If that was the case then could we have been seeing Nina from Amber-red conversing over to where-ever Jones was in Amber-blue-verse at the time? I forget the circumstances, are we sure "a version of" Nina who was actually in MD in the Amberblue-verse at the time she was conversing using the computer? Is it possible that she was in Amber-red at the time using the computer? I mean the only reason they would have needed to converse using the special computer would be if they were on either side from each other, right?


Alt-Nina or shapeshifter involved or not, I am completely unable to believe that (AmberBlue) Nina fostered Olivia and her sister for any other reason than to keep Bell's experimental subject close. So I would be very surprised if it was not "our" Nina who supervised the Cortexiphan injections and was messaging with DRJ about the next phase. And I expect it is she who is in the dungeon to elicit Olivia's love/fear response to activate her. A substitute there would be too easily revealed (if, of course, AmberOlivia were herself these days).
It does seem highly likely that this would be the reason for her to foster Olivia, I agree but as others have mentioned before me, she did seem genuinely suprised that the Cortexiphan was swapped and especially after she admitted she was the only one with access. I suppose we know she's a very good actress (as a character I mean) and she could be seeking to blame her counterpart.

[RedVines]

Now, consider what is Redverse Nina likely to be? Without a corresponding omni-corp, or someone to put their faith in her like William Bell did, what's she going to be? A housewife? A clerk in the DMV? It seems obvious to me that she'd be easily jealous of a version of herself who landed on her feet. One that could be easily manipulated into working for DRJ.

Or maybe there was some major turning point that made the two Ninas entirely different people. Our Nina gets a job/promotion at Massive Dynamic and works her way up to COO. Their Nina screws up and doesn't get the job/promotion, her life goes into a downward spiral which she blames on MD. DRJ comes along and offers her the opportunity to be the person she thinks she should have been. She would jump at the opportunity!

[Heruss]

I forget when Nina and Jones had that conversation using the quantum entangled computer but wasn't it after Jones came over to the Amber-blue-verse? If that was the case then could we have been seeing Nina from Amber-red conversing over to where-ever Jones was in Amber-blue-verse at the time? I forget the circumstances, are we sure "a version of" Nina who was actually in MD in the Amberblue-verse at the time she was conversing using the computer? Is it possible that she was in Amber-red at the time using the computer? I mean the only reason they would have needed to converse using the special computer would be if they were on either side from each other, right?

It happens before DRJ comes across to extract the anciliphite. They use the quantum typewriters and computers quite sparingly in this episode. I think it's mostly to avoid the minor plot-hole of who the hell was running the shapeshifters when DRJ was cut in twain in the "original" timeline. DRJ crosses over in the next episode.


It does seem highly likely that this would be the reason for her to foster Olivia, I agree but as others have mentioned before me, she did seem genuinely suprised that the Cortexiphan was swapped and especially after she admitted she was the only one with access. I suppose we know she's a very good actress (as a character I mean) and she could be seeking to blame her counterpart.

It's occured to me she must be the redverse counterpart of herself. Shapeshifters, including the new hybrids, still kill their victims when taking on their form. Also if you watch her eyes (Again showing you how amazing Blair Brown is at this) they go from curiosity and surprise to slightly grim, the knowledge she's been caught out coming to the fore when Lee (Who gets a much better try at being an actual character in this episode) gets a rather smug, accusing look about him.

Anyone else feel like the first 11 episodes of this season everyone bar Josh Jackson (Peter) and Lance Reddick (Broyles) put little effort into their performances? It's just so surprising at the scale of the quality of acting in the last couple of episodes, or is it proof that writing is still very much the central part to the Fringe franchise and the first 11 episodes were just... filler?

[AltObserver]

After tonight's last scene, I think that alt. Nina M̶y̶e̶r̶s̶ Sharp is the one helping David Robert Jones. However in tonight's episode the Nina Sharp Walter and Lincoln were talking to was the real Nina who has no idea what is going on. Alt. Nina was able to get at the cortexiphan by "being" real Nina. In the last scene I think that the Nina who is kidnapped with Oliva is alt. Nina and she's going to try to manipulate Olivia in the next episode.

Thoughts?

I don't think so.
The way "Nina" talked to Lincoln and Walter was suspicious. She seemed concerned a bit about Olivia, but you could tell she was trying to hide something, which I think Walter and Lincoln picked up on.
She didn't seem surprised when Walter revealed the samples were not Cortexiphan. She seemed more like she had just been caught.


It happens before DRJ comes across to extract the anciliphite.
The conversation happens after he extracts the mineral...it was the so-called "cliffhanger" of the episode.

[Lij]

I forget when Nina and Jones had that conversation using the quantum entangled computer but wasn't it after Jones came over to the Amber-blue-verse? If that was the case then could we have been seeing Nina from Amber-red conversing over to where-ever Jones was in Amber-blue-verse at the time? I forget the circumstances, are we sure "a version of" Nina who was actually in MD in the Amberblue-verse at the time she was conversing using the computer? Is it possible that she was in Amber-red at the time using the computer? I mean the only reason they would have needed to converse using the special computer would be if they were on either side from each other, right?.
Uh... no. DRJ went into the Bluverse to get the amphilicite and then was transported back into the Redverse to escape the Bluverse Fringe team at the Mohonk quarry.

But after several migraines and a little study, I've changed my reasoning on the whole affair of will the real Nina, please stand up.

It comes down to the biometric scanner at Massive Dynamic (if the FRINGE writers are following reality). Such a scanner should compare several patterns. It at least compares the fingertip patterns and the pattern of creases in any one person's hands. It may also compare the blood vessel pattern in one's hand. Now most of those biometric patterns are not based in DNA but are acquired (even fingerprints can be different among twins - and likely also clones?). Thus one likely rules out the possibiliity that the Nina at MD with Walter and Lincoln (I call her Nina/MD) cannot be another Nina from the Redverse because that person would have different biometric patterns completely.

Now the question is what technology does DRJ have to absolutely fully replicate a human. Could he scan the real Bluverse Nina and replicate her biometric pattern in another human being. That is, could DRJ re-style the Redverse Nina (Nina/R) to fit Bluverse Nina (Nina/B) or could he replicate those biometric patterns in a shapeshifter (Nina/ss - hey! I like to name things!). It is possible, but I do not think it is likely at all. The DRJ shapeshifters work mostly on DNA and thus would not have acquired traits. Thus Nina/MD is actually Nina/B - the real Bluverse Nina.

So who is that Nina in the cellar with Olivia (Nina/c)? Not our real Nina - a Ninot. Thus this Ninot is either a Nina/ss or Nina/R. I tend think she is Nina/R. Part of the reason is a spoiler: the Nina/c is undergoing electro-shock torture as what is part of an apparent interrogation of Olivia or another attempt by DRG to activate Olivia's cortexiphan powers via her fear. A Nina/ss undergoing electro-shock may have a problem with its shapeshifter interface and revert to a possible other persona or their original persona. Thus I am of the opinion that Nina/c is actually Nina/R. Considering what is to come (the spoiler above) this then means a rather extraordinary devotion shown by Nina/R to David Robert Jones. Parenthetically, I believe we will find that Olivia's abduction was accomplished by shapeshifters in the Bluverse and transported to the Redverse. That means Peter's ersatz investigation at the 'gas mart' was at best a rather poor effort; however, it was perhaps clouded by his renewed emotions concerning Olivia.

But the motivations behind what happened at the end of A Better Human Being, especially that of DRJ, should be examined. DRJ's abduction of Olivia was planned. The visit to Nina at the Bridge/MD by Walter & Lincoln is conicidental and could not be foreseen by DRJ. DRJ would not know that Olivia has recovered memories of her "other life" in the paradox; he can have no knowledge of it or anything associated with it. Thus when Walter and Lincoln make an unscheduled visit to Nina/B at the Bridge and demand she take them to the vault at Massive Dynamic, there is a problem created for DRJ's plan and Nina/B, as a co-conspiritor with Jones must replace the removed cortexiphan. Yes, I think both Ninas (Nina/B & Nina/R) are in league with David Robert Jones. Nina/B attempted to make a call and it was likely to someone working under her. I'm guessing that Nina/B would have called the character played by Monte Markham. That was (according to IMdB (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2032724/)) Dr. Blair West, who was presumably the doctor from Massive Dynamic who had stolen Eugene Bryant away as an infant for study by Kelvin Genetics, later Massive Dynamic. Knowledge of Eugene Bryant's condition may have been useful in the eventual production of shapeshifters.

This brings up further points about the biometric scanner at the MD vault. Is it said (by Nina/B) to be only keyed to Nina/B. My guess is that it is not; which means Nina/B is either lying about that fact to Walter & Lincoln or she is not Nina/B. But the circumstances seem to point to Nina/B to be a co-conspirator. For one thing to change the biometric scanner to any other such person's handprint would likely mean that Nina/B was complicit or forced. The only other possibilities would be that Nina/B was taken prisoner by assets of DRJ and the used within Massive Dynamic to re-key the biometric scanner at the vault possibly to both Nina/R (or a Nina/ss) and Dr Blair West OR the biometric scanner has been disabled in some way by assets of DRJ and just about anyone could then use it. Though possible, I find this last idea to be improbable; however, this idea brings up the possibility that Nina/MD actually is Nina/R or a Nina/ss.

And so we are left with only five possibilities in my humble opinion:

1) Nina at Massive Dynamics with Walter and Lincoln is Nina/B and is a co-conspirator with David Robert Jones. Nina witih Olivia is Nina/R and is a co-conspirator with David Robert Jones.

2) Nina at Massive Dynamics with Walter and Lincoln is Nina/B and is being duped by Dr Blair West who has somehow disabled the biometric scanner (without Nina/B's aid) and is in league Nina/R and DRJ. Nina witih Olivia is Nina/R and is a co-conspirator with David Robert Jones.

3) Nina at Massive Dynamics with Walter and Lincoln is Nina/R and is a co-conspirator with David Robert Jones. Nina wiith Olivia is Nina/B and is a co-conspirator with David Robert Jones.

4) Nina at Massive Dynamics with Walter and Lincoln is Nina/R and is a co-conspirator with David Robert Jones. Nina wiith Olivia is Nina/B and is also a prisoner of David Robert Jones.

5) Nina at Massive Dynamics with Walter and Lincoln is a Nina/ss and is a co-conspirator with David Robert Jones. Nina wiith Olivia is Nina/B and is also a prisoner of David Robert Jones.

I don't like the idea that there is a Nina/ss - goodbye #5. And #2 while possible seems to be quite improbable becaue Nina would not be needed to disable the biometric scanner. Could we have been seeing two different Nina's in prior episodes this season? Possibly, especially when seen with Dr Blair West dosing Olivia with cortexiphan. That supports #'s 3 & 4 and I am more supportive of #4 if only to rehabilitate Nina/B. But when push comes to shove, I seem to fall in live with what my cousin Mary Jo has to say about it: "I don't trust that woman!"

So I'll stick with #1 until futher information proves otherwise.

. . .

[djoe]

I need to watch this episode a third time before touching the Nina subject. Although the Nina that was with Walter had to be version Red.

[PB]

I just want to point out that WillTippin's theory that started this thread was RIGHT!!! Alt-Nina was tied up with Olivia! The real Nina was back at Massive Dynamic with Lincoln and Walter!