4.19 "Letters of Transit" Sneak Peaks [Archive] - Fringe-Forum Fox TV Series Message Boards

Residents Fan

04-19-2012, 03:00 PM

Looks like some of our assessments were correct.

Even maybe the "Observer strip club" angle haha :-)

On a side note, I'm guessing the "good verses evil" dynamic is going to be clear cut, with no grey lol. The Observers seem to essentially be Nazi's par excellence.

Nothing in previous episodes hinted that the Observers might be "evil" though. Sure, they were prepared to kill
Christine Hollis and make Peter Bishop vanish forever, but this was because the Observers believed these
actions served a higher purpose (protecting the timeline). August and September went
renegade because they wanted to help individual humans.
But the Observers we see in the trailers show traits of lust (seizing a clearly uncomfortable woman), cruelty (nearly killing the sleazy guy) and narcissism (having huge
posters of themselves everywhere)- all alien to previous depictions of them. Unless these evil Observers are of a similar kind to John Mosley (and a guy resembling
Mosley has appeared in first teaser).

Dreamachineries

04-19-2012, 03:08 PM

My boyfriend theorized that the Observers that do the time travelling (those we've seen from S1) are some sort of anti-group/subculture that for some reason wanted to get away from where they came from. So a different type of Observer, perhaps? They indeed show different traits in these snippets than the ones we've seen before.

Omniscient_Jay

04-19-2012, 03:17 PM

Man, the Head Muchacho of the Non-Natives is deliciously sadistic. :P

Also, I will be displeased if "Etta" is simply a shortened form of Henrietta. If this woman is in fact Peter/Olivia's child, then it means he decided to name her after Henry, whom he only glimpsed in a mind-panel in 4.14. He doesn't know the background of Henry's name (after Henry Higgins of Red World fame), so it seems kind of random that he would name a female child Henrietta just because a child he never knew he had sired happened to be named Henry. :confused0006:

Lastly, September and crew are more "passive" than these 2036ers because their task was to observe historically significant events from a detached standpoint. September and Friends are actual Observers, but Head Muchacho and Pals have no need for impartiality, so Overseers or Enforcers are more apt a title for them than Observers.

Speaking of titles, I hope we learn what the "Observers" actually refer to themselves as. :hope:

dawson_son

04-19-2012, 04:01 PM

Residents Fan

04-19-2012, 04:21 PM

Man, the Head Muchacho of the Non-Natives is deliciously sadistic. :P

Also, I will be displeased if "Etta" is simply a shortened form of Henrietta. If this woman is in fact Peter/Olivia's child, then it means he decided to name her after Henry, whom he only glimpsed in a mind-panel in 4.14. He doesn't know the background of Henry's name (after Henry Higgins of Red World fame), so it seems kind of random that he would name a female child Henrietta just because a child he never knew he had sired happened to be named Henry. :confused0006:

Peter's a jazz fan. If he had a daughter, maybe he's named her after the late, great Etta James. :happy15:

Lastly, September and crew are more "passive" than these 2036ers because their task was to observe historically significant events from a detached standpoint. September and Friends are actual Observers, but Head Muchacho and Pals have no need for impartiality, so Overseers or Enforcers are more apt a title for them than Observers.

These new Bad Guys may be part of a "Police Team" or "Military Team" instead of September and co.'s "Science Team". Not sure how this
ties into the Ministry of Science logo we've seen in the teasers, or what they would use as codenames (Skirmish? Assault? Onslaught?).

Speaking of titles, I hope we learn what the "Observers" actually refer to themselves as. :hope:

The Last People ? ;)

Omniscient_Jay

04-19-2012, 04:23 PM

I cant remember if September told Peter the name but if i can recall the most part of it No . I thought altOlivia named her son Henry? for the cab driver or is more than the eye meets do we know her fathers name? And if so "if" etta is indeed the PO kid (how you guys jump to the conclusion? Etta? The hair? The looks? Or the attidute that reminds of someone? you all had me surprised i didnt even went there LOL) why in earth they called her like that *

As for that "team" of observers i think we gonna miss the August team and their innocent meetings in restaurants and their good taste on food and music!!! Girls/Observers( can we call them observers? since they are not observers anymore we need new name ) bring back the old squad i rather having them 10 times !!! Even March i dont mind.

September did mention Henry's name in the September/Peter scene in 4.14. Here's a transcript of that scene:

PETER: What child?
SEPTEMBER: Your son... Henry.

PETER: My what?

SEPTEMBER: He was born to the wrong Olivia Dunham due to a series of circumstances that never should have happened. This event... would have irrevocably altered everything that was to come.

PETER: Henry... I have a son.

Many people assume that "Etta" is the child of P/O because of the widespread "Henrietta" theory (which I detailed in my above post), and that she bears a vague resemblance to Olivia.

I think this would be absurd. It would be like if I seduced a woman tonight in a one-night encounter, then twenty years from now I have a daughter with a different woman, after which I give this daughter a masculine variation of the name that first woman gave to the son I unwittingly bore her (whose existence eluded me until seven months into my daughter's pregnancy). It doesn't make much sense.

I wouldn't be opposed to this woman being a P/O child, but at least give her a different name. :P

Peter's a jazz fan. If he had a daughter, maybe he's named her after the late, great Etta James. http://fringe-forum.com/forums/images/smilies/happy15.gif

Or she's unrelated to the Bishops/Dunham entirely.

Perhaps she's Agent Foster's lady friend. ;)

These new Bad Guys may be part of a "Police Team" or "Military Team" instead of September and co.'s "Science Team". Not sure how this ties into the Ministry of Science logo we've seen in the teasers, or what they would use as codenames (Skirmish? Assault? Onslaught?)

I would guess that the Ministry of Science is a high-tier branch of the overall Non-Native government. We see that Fringe Division/FBI is now in charge of Native Crimes, and the other Non-Native "Observers" seem to have a police force working directly under them.

It'll certainly be interesting to see how Observerkind society is structured. :confused0006:

The Last People ? http://fringe-forum.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.png

That would be cool.

I wonder how you'd write Last People in Observese script. :P

mjjaques

04-19-2012, 04:52 PM

Of course that would be Walter's first question after being in amber for 20 years! Haha.

hantowertg

04-19-2012, 05:06 PM

So Simon is the new male agent? Interesting. Now the glyph code makes sense.

dawson_son

04-19-2012, 06:20 PM

September did mention Henry's name in the September/Peter scene in 4.14. Here's a transcript of that scene:

Many people assume that "Etta" is the child of P/O because of the widespread "Henrietta" theory (which I detailed in my above post), and that she bears a vague resemblance to Olivia.

I think this would be absurd. It would be like if I seduced a woman tonight in a one-night encounter, then twenty years from now I have a daughter with a different woman, after which I give this daughter a masculine variation of the name that first woman gave to the son I unwittingly bore her (whose existence eluded me until seven months into my daughter's pregnancy). It doesn't make much sense.

I wouldn't be opposed to this woman being a P/O child, but at least give her a different name. :P

Or she's unrelated to the Bishops/Dunham entirely.

Perhaps she's Agent Foster's lady friend. ;)

Thanks i guess i dont remember that talk at all (i wonder why)
Ive read that theory too and i find it quite bad if they do that. But its fringe they can even make Olivia name the baby (if its PO baby ) to take that part from Peter . still the whole thing bothers if indeed the ;etta stands to Henrietta mostly for all the write-rewrite history , erase babies to correct mistakes and re-write characters for the same pattern and now name babies for other kids as well. If we were to assume Henry was the "mistake" in history than the PO kid if it was meant or tend to happen as it was intended then i cant see Henri_etta as name to be around.
Even if i didnt wanted the agent to be related to Bishops/Olivia i think now that she is related (the promo after the episode 18 made me thought of it ) or she is new romance for Peter which i doubt LOL + plus the whole casting .....lets hope in the end if its a PO miracle kid the Etta doesnt stand for Henrietta ...for the sake of the storyline

tricked

04-19-2012, 10:19 PM

Nothing in previous episodes hinted that the Observers might be "evil" though. Sure, they were prepared to kill
Christine Hollis and make Peter Bishop vanish forever, but this was because the Observers believed these
actions served a higher purpose (protecting the timeline). August and September went
renegade because they wanted to help individual humans.
But the Observers we see in the trailers show traits of lust (seizing a clearly uncomfortable woman), cruelty (nearly killing the sleazy guy) and narcissism (having huge
posters of themselves everywhere)- all alien to previous depictions of them. Unless these evil Observers are of a similar kind to John Mosley (and a guy resembling
Mosley has appeared in first teaser). I'm assuming these are a different group of observers ..... and September and company aren't even from the same "stock". If you recall in August, September claimed that all of the people they were studying were unique, and although they may have treated people like "subjects" on occassion, I don't recall them purposefully treating people with disrespect and *antagonizing them*. The Dark Emperor Observer is clearly antagonizing the guy he's making bleed out his ears, patronizing him, and he even seems to enjoy the idea of killing him. He talks to Broyles as though he were a dog: "bite my hand, I'll put you down". The punk in the parlor who grabs the girl behaves like a "neanderthal" adolescent. They not only appear violent, they actually appear "immature" in my eyes lol .... like they were the kids who got picked on in school and are making up for lost time.

September and company have different personalities.

I'm also curious as to how the Observer we see get punched allows himself to get punched. On the one hand they can catch bullets. On the other hand September gets knocked down by Peter in the Arrival. I'm curious as to why they sometimes use their spidey-senses and they sometimes do not. You'd think he would have "saw that one coming" as a possibility. But meh ... we'll have answer soon enough I hope :-)

Lastly, September and crew are more "passive" than these 2036ers because their task was to observe historically significant events from a detached standpoint. September and Friends are actual Observers, but Head Muchacho and Pals have no need for impartiality, so Overseers or Enforcers are more apt a title for them than Observers. I'm hoping they are completely *different* in relation to each other, and are not part of the same society, personally.

Speaking of titles, I hope we learn what the "Observers" actually refer to themselves as. :hope: Yessssssss.

I think this would be absurd. It would be like if I seduced a woman tonight in a one-night encounter, then twenty years from now I have a daughter with a different woman, after which I give this daughter a masculine variation of the name that first woman gave to the son I unwittingly bore her (whose existence eluded me until seven months into my daughter's pregnancy). It doesn't make much sense. Some people refer to this as "Tuesday" ^_^

I wouldn't be opposed to this woman being a P/O child, but at least give her a different name. :P I think whenever the collective Fringe viewers are unable to directly peg the origin of a character, for whatever reason, the first thing done to help with that dissonance is to assume they are the product of Peter and Olivia somehow. I've actually been quite pleased that thus far the Inner Child, September, and others, have NOT been the children of Peter/Olivia (that we know of). It seems "too easy".

I wonder how you'd write Last People in Observese script. :P A single Omega symbol :-). Oh wait, that symbol was essentially the same one on Newton ...... lol .....

Lij

04-19-2012, 10:51 PM

Etta could be a name unto itself. But in addition to Henrietta, Etta is a diminuative for Coretta, Harriet, Rosetta, Valetta, but also Olivetta (or Olivette), which is a form of Olivia.

My two cents concerning the "Observers" we see in 2036 is that they may represent an earlier form of the same society from which the Observers spring. They would have been visited by the Observers we know to ascertain their history but have been advanced enough to have obtained their future selves' technology and identify problems leading to their culture. Either that or realizing the loss of a possible timeline leading to their existance they chose to rule in hell than take a chance at oblivian? Should be interesting to find out what their motivation should be.

Omniscient_Jay

04-19-2012, 10:52 PM

I'm hoping they are completely *different* in relation to each other, and are not part of the same society, personally.

Why so? Can a society not comprise of sadists (Lord Cranium), dutiful hardasses (December), and troubled, well-intentioned types (September), among doubtless other temperamental leanings? In fact, even within the Month-Observers do we see large differences between December, September, August, and March's personalities.

For the most part, I think the "Observers" are only as we know them because it is their job to be impartial, refrained, only to observe, whereas the rest of Observer society is not so bound. I would also think that the Month-Observers would not cause the Loop to arise and initiate the rewrite without Lord Cranium and Friends knowing about it, so I suspect that major decisions, like the rewrite, had to have been approved by the Ministry of Science (or whatever force is the governing authority among Baldkind).

Yessssssss.

LORD CRANIUM: You know us as the Observers, but in truth, we are the Super Awesome Cool Guys Club (No Girls Allowed).

Some people refer to this as "Tuesday" ^_^

I think whenever the collective Fringe viewers are unable to directly peg the origin of a character, for whatever reason, the first thing done to help with that dissonance is to assume they are the product of Peter and Olivia somehow. I've actually been quite pleased that thus far the Inner Child, September, and others, have NOT been the children of Peter/Olivia (that we know of). It seems "too easy".

Yeah. But the thing is, I can totally see them doing it. :(

On a related note, it wouldn't make sense for a different reason, as September said the child known as Henry was not "meant" to have been born to Altlivia. This may imply that the Prophecy Child is meant to be male, yet Henrietta Latisha Bishop is evidently not. And I doubt Henry could be replicated since the sperm that held his chromosomes has long since set sail from Peter's Machine.

The moral of the story is that Prophecy Children are never cool. :P

A single Omega symbol :-). Oh wait, that symbol was essentially the same one on Newton ...... lol .....

I'd love it to be just a plain sideways stickman, to be honest.:haha:

tricked

04-19-2012, 11:29 PM

Why so? Can a society not comprise of sadists (Lord Cranium), dutiful hardasses (December), and troubled, well-intentioned types (September), among doubtless other temperamental leanings? In fact, even within the Month-Observers do we see large differences between December, September, August, and March's personalities. Well are they Observers or Emo Care Bears ? ^_^

I understand the angle of differing personalities .... and of course even within a single society you have fundamentalists, liberals, extremists in both directions, the "average" person, etc .... however collectively, I hope their common goal is different from that of the Flava-of-the-Month-Observer team and that our Calendar Boys do not *support* their same agenda. Why ? Personal choice :-) That's why I added that "personally" qualifier onto my original statment :-)

For the most part, I think the "Observers" are only as we know them because it is their job to be impartial, refrained, only to observe, whereas the rest of Observer society is not so bound. I would also think that the Month-Observers would not cause the Loop to arise and initiate the rewrite without Lord Cranium and Friends knowing about it, so I suspect that major decisions, like the rewrite, had to have been approved by the Ministry of Science (or whatever force is the governing authority among Baldkind). Hmm ..... perhaps. We shall see.

More importantly ... I wish we could come up with an agreed upon nickname for the overlord gent. Sauron the Observer ? Darth Nobrow ?

On a related note, it wouldn't make sense for a different reason, as September said the child known as Henry was not "meant" to have been born to Altlivia. This may imply that the Prophecy Child is meant to be male, yet Henrietta Latisha Bishop is evidently not. And I doubt Henry could be replicated since the sperm that held his chromosomes has long since set sail from Peter's Machine. Oooo ... I like Latisha :-) And concerning the Prophecy Child goods .... did the sperm resonate at a "G" or a "C" level ?

The moral of the story is that Prophecy Children are never cool. :P The Golden Child was cool .... the kid in the Matrix with the spoon was a douche lol :-)

I'd love it to be just a plain sideways stickman, to be honest.:haha: Wins :-)

Although I'd like to toss the Observer-trollface into the running as the official symbol lol

Omniscient_Jay

04-19-2012, 11:50 PM

Well are they Observers or Emo Care Bears ? ^_^

I understand the angle of differing personalities .... and of course even within a single society you have fundamentalists, liberals, extremists in both directions, the "average" person, etc .... however collectively, I hope their common goal is different from that of the Flava-of-the-Month-Observer team and that our Calendar Boys do not *support* their same agenda. Why ? Personal choice :-) That's why I added that "personally" qualifier onto my original statment :-)

If the Month-Observers answer to branch of the main Observer Hierarchy, then the former's goals don't matter in that sense. They were sent about history out of what seems to be scientific curiosity, and that task has nothing to do with whatever the Hierarchy is trying to do (unless September meant something else by "observe our beginnings"). September would probably voice his opposition, but I doubt that the Month-Observers are high-ranking officials, and thus they wouldn't have a significant sway or influence on the Hierarchy's agenda/decisions.

Hmm ..... perhaps. We shall see.

More importantly ... I wish we could come up with an agreed upon nickname for the overlord gent. Sauron the Observer ? Darth Nobrow ?

I called him Lord Cranium. What do you think of that one?

Perhaps His Highness of Alopecia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alopecia) would also work. :happy15:

Oooo ... I like Latisha :-) And concerning the Prophecy Child goods .... did the sperm resonate at a "G" or a "C" level ?

I think the frequency was at a long "O". :shhh:

The Golden Child was cool .... the kid in the Matrix with the spoon was a douche lol :-)

There is no regime.

*mass ear bleeding*

Wins :-)

Although I'd like to toss the Observer-trollface into the running as the official symbol lol

My human brain lacks the cognitive processing power to even begin conceptualize what that would look like...O.o

tricked

04-20-2012, 12:36 AM

If the Month-Observers answer to branch of the main Observer Hierarchy, then the former's goals don't matter in that sense. They were sent about history out of what seems to be scientific curiosity, and that task has nothing to do with whatever the Hierarchy is trying to do (unless September meant something else by "observe our beginnings"). September would probably voice his opposition, but I doubt that the Month-Observers are high-ranking officials, and thus they wouldn't have a significant sway or influence on the Hierarchy's agenda/decisions. I don't know .... this is where it gets "wishy-washy" imo. It's like looking at some of the Nazi scientists and saying their goals didn't have anything to do with what their hierarchy's goals were. In other words, a "cop out". But hopefully the show will address the link between the Calendar and Curry Club and the upcoming Observer Reich. It will be disappointing to me if they do not directly address this issue :)

I called him Lord Cranium. What do you think of that one?

Perhaps His Highness of Alopecia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alopecia) would also work. :happy15:I suddenly greatly desire photoshopping something onto his head :-)

I think the frequency was at a long "O". :shhh: That's whats she alter-said .... ;)

Omniscient_Jay

04-20-2012, 12:48 AM

I don't know .... this is where it gets "wishy-washy" imo. It's like looking at some of the Nazi scientists and saying their goals didn't have anything to do with what their hierarchy's goals were. In other words, a "cop out". But hopefully the show will address the link between the Calendar and Curry Club and the upcoming Observer Reich. It will be disappointing to me if they do not directly address this issue :)

I imagine that the original agenda of the Hierarchy was not always one of (necessary?) domination; the conditions for this action wouldn't exist without September's interference and all the things that stem from it (namely, Loop and Rewrite). Originally, the goals of the Monthly Crew were most likely rooted in scientific curiosity, but as they continually mucked things, they donned the role of overseers, trying to steer things back on a more proper track, though they clearly forced the Hierarchy's hand through increasing temporal chaos. It's unclear whether this decision has changed the ongoing Monthly Crew mission, but since they are subservient to the Hierarchy, then they probably have.

I imagine that at the very least, September is the only one who probably wouldn't agree with Operation Observer Nation; there may be other (likely silent) dissidents, but they are probably few. And I imagine that December and other Monthly Crewmembers (like March, and perhaps July) would actively support the Operation; regardless of their personal opinions, though, since the Monthly Crew is under the employ of the Hierarchy, then the Hierarchy's mission becomes the Crew's mission de facto.

I suddenly greatly desire photoshopping something onto his head :-)

There is no end to the hilarious captions one could make from just the Sneak Peeks, let alone the whole episode. XD

That's whats she alter-said .... ;)

I'd imagine that one or two Soft Spots were formed in the aftermath.

tricked

04-20-2012, 01:02 AM

I imagine that the original agenda of the Hierarchy was not always one of (necessary?) domination I probably agree .... something sparked their oppressive reactions ...

; the conditions for this action wouldn't exist without September's interference and all the things that stem from it (namely, Loop and Rewrite). I've been inclined to agree with this idea since you first mentioned it. It seems a logical conclusion on some level .... and I also imagine the "sparked event" involves whatever Peter presumably accomplished in order to get rid of the Observers (I'm assuming it was Peter, and not Walter since he was ambered around the time the Observers showed up to take dominion).

Originally, the goals of the Monthly Crew were most likely rooted in scientific curiosity, but as they continually mucked things, they donned the role of overseers, trying to steer things back on a more proper track, though they clearly forced the Hierarchy's hand through increasing temporal chaos. It's unclear whether this decision has changed the ongoing Monthly Crew mission, but since they are subservient to the Hierarchy, then they probably have. We'll see ...

I imagine that at the very least, September is the only one who probably wouldn't agree with Operation Observer Nation; there may be other (likely silent) dissidents, but they are probably few. I also very much like the "Observer on Observer" civil war type scenario, as you know lol

And I imagine that December and other Monthly Crewmembers (like March, and perhaps July) would actively support the Operation; Operation March Madness ?
regardless of their personal opinions, though, since the Monthly Crew is under the employ of the Hierarchy, then the Hierarchy's mission becomes the Crew's mission de facto. ..... it becomes the Crew's mission de facto, unless they go rogue ;-)

There is no end to the hilarious captions one could make from just the Sneak Peeks, let alone the whole episode. XD No doubt :). If we were on a hiatus time table, I think a competition would have been in order ^_^

I'd imagine that one or two Soft Spots were formed in the aftermath.The Pattern ? :p

Omniscient_Jay

04-20-2012, 01:12 AM

I probably agree .... something sparked their oppressive reactions ...

I've been inclined to agree with this idea since you first mentioned it. It seems a logical conclusion on some level .... and I also imagine the "sparked event" involves whatever Peter presumably accomplished in order to get rid of the Observers (I'm assuming it was Peter, and not Walter since he was ambered around the time the Observers showed up to take dominion).

September's failure to permanently erase Peter, and Peter physically returning to this new timeline, was probably the straw that broke the camel's back.

And by the highlighted passage, are you referring to the throwaway line in the promo (ETTA: "Your team discovered a way to get rid of the Observers")?

That was probably a significant factor as well. Did they discover the method December's group used to banish September? :confused0006:

We'll see ...

What do you mean?

I also very much like the "Observer on Observer" civil war type scenario, as you know lol

Indeed I do.

I don't think there is an internal conflict of that sort currently at play, though it wouldn't surprise me if September sowed the seeds for such a conflict...:observer:

it becomes the Crew's mission de facto, unless they go rogue ;-)

But why would December and Friends join September's revolución? They've displayed nothing but opposition to his conduct and actions.

September's going to have to exercise all of his charisma if he's going to sway someone like December to his side. :P

tricked

04-20-2012, 01:32 AM

September's failure to permanently erase Peter, and Peter physically returning to this new timeline, was probably the straw that broke the camel's back.

And by the highlighted passage, are you referring to the throwaway line in the promo (ETTA: "Your team discovered a way to get rid of the Observers")?

That was probably a significant factor as well. Did they discover the method December's group used to banish September? :confused0006: Yes I'm referencing the throw away line .... I suspect it is a method involving the Beacon, or a similar principle that "locks them out" to where they cannot find the universe, or transport themselves to the universe ... as September was locked out. What I'm not really speculating too heavily on though, is who figured this out ... Peter, or Walter ? Walter would have had a limited window to where this "worked" if he did so. 2012 to 2015 or so obviously.

What do you mean? I meant "we'll see" in the upcoming episode lol :)

I don't think there is an internal conflict of that sort currently at play, though it wouldn't surprise me if September sowed the seeds for such a conflict...:observer: Maybe, maybe not. Mosely was a "rogue" arguably ..... a juicy storyline left hanging. Who knows how deep it goes ? It might not be an *equal* internal conflict that's currently at play, but it could exist nonetheless. To these Nazi Observers, perhaps the likes of Mosely are like kids with sticks and stones trying to combat a well oiled war machine. But they might be underestimating things.

But why would December and Friends join September's revolución? They've displayed nothing but opposition to his conduct and actions.

September's going to have to exercise all of his charisma if he's going to sway someone like December to his side. :P More or less agreed ... September would perhaps gain supporters other then the current team. December has seemingly given September a chance, and even tried to go along with some of his choices .... and one might argue that December was "fair" in that regard. So to sway him over now, might be unrealistic. And March has brown all over his nose around his boss ... so he's out. He's probably dreaming of girls he can manhandle and grab in a swanky nightclub about 3 years from now :-). September would likely have to exercise his swagger elsewhere .... or perhaps provide a more cohesive theory for his brethren to chew on and swallow.

Residents Fan

04-20-2012, 05:42 AM

Omniscient_Jay

04-20-2012, 11:56 AM

Yes I'm referencing the throw away line .... I suspect it is a method involving the Beacon, or a similar principle that "locks them out" to where they cannot find the universe, or transport themselves to the universe ... as September was locked out. What I'm not really speculating too heavily on though, is who figured this out ... Peter, or Walter ? Walter would have had a limited window to where this "worked" if he did so. 2012 to 2015 or so obviously.

Indeed.

I don't think we'll ever see the events between 2012-2036; it will only be relayed by the characters as anecdotal references (just as 2011-2026 history was inferred through anecdotes by the characters in 3.22).

I meant "we'll see" in the upcoming episode lol :)

Ah, of course. :P

Maybe, maybe not. Mosely was a "rogue" arguably ..... a juicy storyline left hanging. Who knows how deep it goes ? It might not be an *equal* internal conflict that's currently at play, but it could exist nonetheless. To these Nazi Observers, perhaps the likes of Mosely are like kids with sticks and stones trying to combat a well oiled war machine. But they might be underestimating things.

There may be an outlying splinter faction who opposes the Hierarchy in some manner, but civil war implies a large scale overt conflict, and most of Observerkind seems uniform in intent (based solely on the previews and promos, of course).

More or less agreed ... September would perhaps gain supporters other then the current team. December has seemingly given September a chance, and even tried to go along with some of his choices .... and one might argue that December was "fair" in that regard. So to sway him over now, might be unrealistic. And March has brown all over his nose around his boss ... so he's out. He's probably dreaming of girls he can manhandle and grab in a swanky nightclub about 3 years from now :-). September would likely have to exercise his swagger elsewhere .... or perhaps provide a more cohesive theory for his brethren to chew on and swallow.[/QUOTE]

It seems December only gave September a chance only insofar as their ongoing mission was concerned (which was timeline reparation/restoration). I don't know how they would react faced with Operation Observer Nation, or if they even know about it yet (though I imagine they must communicate with HQ every now and then).

I think September's trust will, for the most part, be placed in Peter and his entourage.

If John Mosley actually was a full-blown Observer, he showed the same delight in cruelty (smiling while he tortured Peter) that "Lord Cranium"
does. I'd love if this ep finally explained who Mosley was.

Of course, it's not like there is one of each conceivable temperament for each Observer. There are probably dozens of December Hardasses, March Duty-Fulfillers (perhaps that one in the promo who commands the Native Police force is of that ilk), and Troubled September types.

That there are more overtly cruel types than Lord Cranium is thus unsurprising. Though I too wonder if we can get some info on Mosley and his "group" (as well as more on Beacons and Inner Children, as this seems the perfect episode to at least give passing mentions).

Come to think about it, the biggest question is how the Observers reproduce. My guess is that they grow like coral, with "babies" sprouting from their bald heads and falling off when the time is right. :haha:

FullMoonMama

04-20-2012, 11:59 AM

On a related note, it wouldn't make sense for a different reason, as September said the child known as Henry was not "meant" to have been born to Altlivia. This may imply that the Prophecy Child is meant to be male, yet Henrietta Latisha Bishop is evidently not. And I doubt Henry could be replicated since the sperm that held his chromosomes has long since set sail from Peter's Machine.

The moral of the story is that Prophecy Children are never cool. :P

True!!! It's driving me NUTS as to who this girl is. I'm assuming she's a p/o baby... I mean what's the point of having her look similar? The thing is... Maybe she IS thier child... and maybe they have a son named Henry.. and she's a younger sibling. Just because Henry was "prophecized" doesn't mean they don't have other children.
Peter talks about having a bunch of little bishops in "the day we died" maybe that actually happens. Although If Peter is in Amber, I'm not too sure how that would be possible.. but maybe that isn't the case. All i know is that in the promo.. You see Peter hug Etta... and it's not a "we're lovers" hug. It's a fatherly "OMG Liv and I have a kid and she's beautiful, I love you" hug.
What we know.... Peter and Liv have a baby... That's been foretold. THe child will be born.. but the gender is not what is important.

Omniscient_Jay

04-20-2012, 12:08 PM

True!!! It's driving me NUTS as to who this girl is. I'm assuming she's a p/o baby... I mean what's the point of having her look similar? The thing is... Maybe she IS thier child... and maybe they have a son named Henry.. and she's a younger sibling. Just because Henry was "prophecized" doesn't mean they don't have other children.
Peter talks about having a bunch of little bishops in "the day we died" maybe that actually happens. Although If Peter is in Aber, I'm not too sure how that would be possible.. but maybe that isn't the case. All i know is that in the promo.. You see Peter hug Etta... and it's not a "we're lovers" hug. It's a fatherly "OMG Liv and I have a kid and she's beautiful, I love you" hug.
What we know.... Peter and Liv have a baby... That's been foretold. THe child will be born.. but the gender is not what is important.

Gender is probably not relevant, true, but my main problem is more the reason why Peter/Olivia would call their son/daughter Henry/Henrietta. What incentive would you have to name your child after an illegitimate, technically non-consensual son whom you've never actually met or heard of until very recently? To honour that child's memory? Because you were lacking ideas? Bestowing a female variation of your illegitimate son's name by pure chance? It seems way too easy and uncreative. It's not the name that's fated to pass, after all (or is it?). :P

On another note, I saw a theory on the web somewhere that posited that Henrietta is not P/O's child, but Altlivia and Lincoln's daughter, which would be pretty out there (as in, "wait, what?").

tricked

04-20-2012, 12:23 PM

There may be an outlying splinter faction who opposes the Hierarchy in some manner, but civil war implies a large scale overt conflict, and most of Observerkind seems uniform in intent (based solely on the previews and promos, of course). Hmm ... true enough what you say about civil war. A few dissidents or a small faction doesn't make a "civil war". It would be closer to a rebellion or terrorism type of activity then. Or perhaps an "Observer Spring" ? haha ^_^

It seems December only gave September a chance only insofar as their ongoing mission was concerned (which was timeline reparation/restoration). I don't know how they would react faced with Operation Observer Nation, or if they even know about it yet (though I imagine they must communicate with HQ every now and then).

I think September's trust will, for the most part, be placed in Peter and his entourage. I would say that December gave September a chance within that context .... the mission of bridge creation, essentially, and using Peter for his purpose, and damage control here and there. However the doorway was opened for December to consider a greater context: how people change perhaps (Walter in Firefly), erasing someone from a timeline (when he concedes to September that September was correct on Liberty Island during the Observer Mass) but seeing them bleed back in. So it's not as though the opportunity for him to consider other elements to the way timelines unfold isn't there. But even if he did "change" and support September rather then ensue consequences for his actions, I don't see how others would follow December en masse either. They would appear more as sheep without a shephard perhaps.

Of course, it's not like there is one of each conceivable temperament for each Observer. There are probably dozens of December Hardasses, March Duty-Fulfillers (perhaps that one in the promo who commands the Native Police force is of that ilk), and Troubled September types. Duty-fulfiller ^_^

That there are more overtly cruel types than Lord Cranium is thus unsurprising. Though I too wonder if we can get some info on Mosley and his "group" (as well as more on Beacons and Inner Children, as this seems the perfect episode to at least give passing mentions). I hope with only a few episodes left, perhaps to the entire SERIES, we will get a bit more than passing mentions concerning at the very least Inner Child, but this might be too much to hope for, since I assume it wouldn't be necessary to understand the overall flow of the episode.

Come to think about it, the biggest question is how the Observers reproduce. My guess is that they grow like coral, with "babies" sprouting from their bald heads and falling off when the time is right. :haha: In all seriousness, I had considered that they were like seahorses .... that the males were somehow involved in the pregnancy directly haha. During the first season, I speculated that Observers were composed of the "best elements" of many animals, but in fully human form, and that even their gestation period in the womb was loooooooong. Like an elephant perhaps, considering their empathic ability.

Although, maybe now would be a good time in mentioning Chuck Norris ? :D

tricked

04-20-2012, 12:25 PM

Omniscient_Jay

04-20-2012, 12:34 PM

Hmm ... true enough what you say about civil war. A few dissidents or a small faction doesn't make a "civil war". It would be closer to a rebellion or terrorism type of activity then. Or perhaps an "Observer Spring" ? haha ^_^

Heh.

I would think that it would more closely resemble the Agent Foster/Etta covert resistance, except spread all throughout time, as Mosley and Friends, if Observers, wouldn't be restricted to the 2036 period (of course, we then wouldn't see Mosley since he died in the prior timeline, but we may see his compatriots).

I would say that December gave September a chance within that context .... the mission of bridge creation, essentially, and using Peter for his purpose, and damage control here and there. However the doorway was opened for December to consider a greater context: how people change perhaps (Walter in Firefly), erasing someone from a timeline (when he concedes to September that September was correct on Liberty Island during the Observer Mass) but seeing them bleed back in. So it's not as though the opportunity for him to consider other elements to the way timelines unfold isn't there. But even if he did "change" and support September rather then ensue consequences for his actions, I don't see how others would follow December en masse either. They would appear more as sheep without a shephard perhaps.

December has been opposing September since he learned of his associate's neglect of the task he was assigned, so I doubt that unless they begin to see the results of September's ongoing plans with Peter and the timeline in general, they won't be so easily convinced.

I hope with only a few episodes left, perhaps to the entire SERIES, we will get a bit more than passing mentions concerning at the very least Inner Child, but this might be too much to hope for, since I assume it wouldn't be necessary to understand the overall flow of the episode.

I guess these things will be the cherry on this cake; not necessary, but nice to have if it's there. :hope:

In all seriousness, I had considered that they were like seahorses .... that the males were somehow involved in the pregnancy directly haha. During the first season, I speculated that Observers were composed of the "best elements" of many animals, but in fully human form, and that even their gestation period in the womb was loooooooong. Like an elephant perhaps, considering their empathic ability.

Although, maybe now would be a good time in mentioning Chuck Norris ? :D

They may be test tube babies as well, or perhaps they "observe" new Observers into existence to keep the population number at a stable range (though this is probably a bit fetched). Maybe they don't even reproduce, having long since become biologically immortal with no major obstacles to their longevity (though I imagine that some die every now and then, as immortality doesn't grant invulnerability, yet they are hard to kill to begin with).

And when September showed Peter the Big Bang, he neglected to zoom in so as to show Norris performing a massive roundhouse kick. :P

FullMoonMama

04-20-2012, 12:47 PM

Gender is probably not relevant, true, but my main problem is more the reason why Peter/Olivia would call their son/daughter Henry/Henrietta. What incentive would you have to name your child after an illegitimate, technically non-consensual son whom you've never actually met or heard of until very recently? To honour that child's memory? Because you were lacking ideas? Bestowing a female variation of your illegitimate son's name by pure chance? It seems way too easy and uncreative. It's not the name that's fated to pass, after all (or is it?). :P

On another note, I saw a theory on the web somewhere that posited that Henrietta is not P/O's child, but Altlivia and Lincoln's daughter, which would be pretty out there (as in, "wait, what?").

Hmm interesting!! Now would that be Our Lincoln Lee.. or Alt Lincoln? But then again.. the whole altlivia getting pregnant thing has been done...
And.. if that is Lincoln and Altliv's baby.. then why is peter hugging her like that? Unless that isn't Etta he's hugging? I mean you don't really see her face in the promo, just her hair.. which i guess could me Olivia's but it doesn't fit with the rest of the promo really. I mean we don't see Olivia in any other scene from the promos... so logic says that the blond woman peter hugs isn't Olivia. But rather Etta.

And Really the promos don't address how Peter ends up in the future... they obviously address how Walter gets there.. the Amber and all that.. but not Peter. but then again.. Promos are meant to DRIVE YOU MAD so you watch the episode. lol And i must say these promos are doing agreat job of that! T minus 10 hours until show starts...

Omniscient_Jay

04-20-2012, 01:01 PM

Hmm interesting!! Now would that be Our Lincoln Lee.. or Alt Lincoln? But then again.. the whole altlivia getting pregnant thing has been done...
And.. if that is Lincoln and Altliv's baby.. then why is peter hugging her like that? Unless that isn't Etta he's hugging? I mean you don't really see her face in the promo, just her hair.. which i guess could me Olivia's but it doesn't fit with the rest of the promo really. I mean we don't see Olivia in any other scene from the promos... so logic says that the blond woman peter hugs isn't Olivia. But rather Etta.

And Really the promos don't address how Peter ends up in the future... they obviously address how Walter gets there.. the Amber and all that.. but not Peter. but then again.. Promos are meant to DRIVE YOU MAD so you watch the episode. lol And i must say these promos are doing agreat job of that! T minus 10 hours until show starts...

Well, it's clear that if Peter is the same age as usual, then like Walter, he must have ended up in Amber (probably in the same incident as Walter).

As for Etta, it's highly likely to be their daughter, but in addition to the name choice (which I'm having a hard time getting over), it's very predictable. A large part of the fandom has already theorized as much, so if/when we see a "Hi, I'm Henrietta Bishop"-type introduction, it won't have much of an impact.

Now, if she were Jones and Alt-Nina's love child, then that would be more of a shocking development.:haha:

tricked

04-20-2012, 01:15 PM

I guess these things will be the cherry on this cake; not necessary, but nice to have if it's there. :hope: And a root beer float to sip from ;-)

They may be test tube babies as well, or perhaps they "observe" new Observers into existence to keep the population number at a stable range (though this is probably a bit fetched). Maybe they don't even reproduce, having long since become biologically immortal with no major obstacles to their longevity (though I imagine that some die every now and then, as immortality doesn't grant invulnerability, yet they are hard to kill to begin with). A few posts ago, I joked that they may be a future version of crack babies lol ... but I actually began to consider this in more length. I'm going to refrain from writing an essay worth on that can of worms though lol :-)

But along the lines of "observing" new Observers into existence ... I thought about September being in his own mind and interacting with Peter on that level. It might be taken for granted that the assumption would be what we were witnessing was a mental thought form of September within his own mind .... but what if September was actually "traveling" TO his own mind, and interacting with Peter on that basis ? In other words, he can actually "observe himself" by visiting himself. I'm sure there are some limitations with that though. But this would give the notion, then, that when Peter was in September's mind, that mind was an actual place that people could travel too .... and that September was using his own body as a destination, his mind the vehicle to arrive and depart. "Astral projection" sort of.

John Scott appearing in his own mind, in a similar fashion was interesting to me as well. Olivia could interact with him, yada yada. And he was dying. There were also things that took place in the dreamscape scenario which Walter couldn't account for: the way John Scott could see and interact with Olivia when he wasn't supposed to be able to. As though she were an interactive Observer herself with him.

I know it's somewhat redundant at this point, but the mind of both human and Observer seem to be access points to experience realities which play themselves out on the "outside", not only the inside. I don't think the Observers have figured out a way to make the two "places" one place yet .... but are pretty close. Otherwise I would have imagined that September could immediately manifest himself as healed, if he wanted too, "from the inside out", since he appeared fully healed during his interaction with Peter in his own mind. In this way, perhaps an Observer can "manifest" other Observers into existence. But I don't think they can yet ... otherwise September arguably could have done this to his ownself. Maybe lol. The Machine apparently comes close as well.

[/tangent]

And when September showed Peter the Big Bang, he neglected to zoom in so as to show Norris performing a massive roundhouse kick. :P I saw Norris there, you didn't ?

:p