Bell's Hand - did HE push someone out of the amber?

[Ryan Trevisol]

I was thinking when I watched it (already deleted it off my DVR, stupid tiny Comcast DVR) that Bell's hands were outstretched. The attached screencaps were all I was able to find online; we see one of his hands raised (and Walter cut it off) but my thought as soon as I saw it live was that Bell had pushed someone out of the amber, which made me wonder who Bell might've pushed out . . . Olivia? He did something "unforgivable" to her, which could have been turning her over to the Observers by pushing her out of the Amber.
3967
I know it's really subtle here, but when I saw this
3966
It seemed like Bell's positioning was really purposeful.

[TheLastManInSpace]

I was definitely thinking the same thing as well. He was definitely in a much more peculiar position within the amber as opposed to the rest of them and when Walter said, "You remember what he did to Olivia" my first thought was the he pushed her out of the amber at the last second.

[Dagenspear]

It does look strange, doesn't it?

[qubit]

It makes perfect sense if Olivia is Bells daughter. Walter cuts off Bells right hand and fixes Nina's right hand. If Olivia was pregnant what would happen to a baby in a mothers Womb if she was caught in Amber? If Olivia was left behind could she still be alive, older but still around? Leader of the resistance, someone we have seen?

[Rekka]

My idea is that he was telling Walter to stop. Walter was the one who triggered the amber, right?

[LordManhammer]

I was watching an old episode today and noticed that Bell had that exact stance when he sacrificed himself to let Olivia (Fauxlivia), Walter, and Peter cross back to the blue universe. I don't know if he was doing anything like that at the time.

[Omniscient_Jay]

It makes perfect sense if Olivia is Bells daughter. Walter cuts off Bells right hand and fixes Nina's right hand. If Olivia was pregnant what would happen to a baby in a mothers Womb if she was caught in Amber? If Olivia was left behind could she still be alive, older but still around? Leader of the resistance, someone we have seen?

Many others have pointed out that judging by Etta's remark that she had not seen her parents since she was four, it would mean that she would have had to be conceived/born in 2012, which is the current timeframe in Fringe (apart from 4.19). So by 2015/2016, Olivia would have given birth to Etta by then, so she would not be pregnant (as I doubt her pregnancy lasted through 2012-2015/16).

And Olivia as Bell's daughter? What has led you to consider this idea?

[PapayaGoo]

This is a great observation :tiphat:

I still haven't gathered my thoughts on what timeline/universe we were witnessing the year 2026 in, so I really don't know what Bell was up to. I don't think that pushing Olivia out of the Amber was so despicable in this timeline. It's possible that he was referring the child abuse, forgetful of his own involvement (As far as we know, the events of the Blue and AmberBlue timelines were the same until Peter's fall through the ice, meaning that Olivia had been experimented on for years already).

[Ryan Trevisol]

First of all, nothing about this seems to suggest that Bell is Olivia's father.

It seems from the way Etta tells it, that she lost her parents at the same time. Obviously she wasn't there when they were Ambered, but it stands to reason that whatever extreme events lead to her being ambered, Peter and Olivia entrusted Etta to someone before they eventually had to Amber themselves.

We saw a bullet, but that could be a red herring, or it could be what she thinks is what happened to her mother.

If they were all getting ready to be ambered, and at the last second, Bell shoved Olivia out of the cloud, he would be damning her to whatever fate they sought to avoid by ambering themselves. Likely capture, interrogation, wiping, and/or death at the hands of the Observers. Bell likely would have done this for a reason, but I'm sure Peter, Astrid, and Walter, would find it "unforgivable."

[spacefilou]

Many others have pointed out that judging by Etta's remark that she had not seen her parents since she was four, it would mean that she would have had to be conceived/born in 2012, which is the current timeframe in Fringe (apart from 4.19). So by 2015/2016, Olivia would have given birth to Etta by then, so she would not be pregnant (as I doubt her pregnancy lasted through 2012-2015/16).

And Olivia as Bell's daughter? What has led you to consider this idea?

I don't think they told that the Fringe team disappeared in 2015-2016? It might have been later, depends how much time they fought the enemy before deciding to amber themselves, no?

And about Olivia being Bell's daughter, no way! I personally suspect Simon of being Bell's son :P

[schoerg]

I was definitely thinking the same thing as well. He was definitely in a much more peculiar position within the amber as opposed to the rest of them and when Walter said, "You remember what he did to Olivia" my first thought was the he pushed her out of the amber at the last second.

This theory doesn't work, assuming all team mebers ambered at the same team, Walter wouldn't have known that Olivia wasn't there until they freed him.

If Bell and Olivia ambered before the rest of them, why not reamber Olivia again?

[FullMoonMama]

This one has me really thinking. I literally can not fathom what Bell could have done to warrent Walter's distaste for him. I mean he could have shoved Olivia out of the amber... which cause her death in some way.. but i think something happend right before everyone was ambered. what that could be I'm not sure... I have a therory that Bell somehow told the Observers where to find Olivia and Etta when etta was small, and that's how Etta and her parents were seperated. my guess is that if this is true then Peter somehow got away (or just wasn't around when this happend) While Olivia was killed and the observers (the bad ones) took Etta to study her... and having lost both Olivia and Etta, Peter and the gang amber themselves...?

[Destiny Found]

Maybe Mr X (who is gonna kill olivia) and bell is somehow connected. Maybe mr x works for bell.

[zeynepercan]

I remember september told olivia that ''I looked all the possible futures and it was the same ending for you .you are going to die" sth like that which means olivia is going to die at some point of the show

[TheLastManInSpace]

This theory doesn't work, assuming all team mebers ambered at the same team, Walter wouldn't have known that Olivia wasn't there until they freed him.

If Bell and Olivia ambered before the rest of them, why not reamber Olivia again?

Good point, although if I remember correctly, doesn't amber start off as a gas and then slowly turn into the solid when they amber something off. Maybe they knew someone was coming for them and started to amber themselves off, but just before it sealed off Bell pushed Olivia to the people who were coming for them and all the team could do at that point was watch, however this seems unlikely and you're probably right.



I remember september told olivia that ''I looked all the possible futures and it was the same ending for you .you are going to die" sth like that which means olivia is going to die at some point of the show

He didn't say "You are going to die", he said "You have to die" I believe, which is pretty much the same thing, but when the latter is said it seems like there may be some chance she won't have to die. :P

[Ryan Trevisol]

I don't think they told that the Fringe team disappeared in 2015-2016? It might have been later, depends how much time they fought the enemy before deciding to amber themselves, no?
I think Peter said at the end "I've been in Amber almost . . . 20 years?" At which point he realizes that Etta is his daughter.
That puts the ambering at about 2016. "almost" could about 19 years, which would put the ambering at 2017 give Peter and Olivia to procreate in the current timeline.


This theory doesn't work, assuming all team mebers ambered at the same team, Walter wouldn't have known that Olivia wasn't there until they freed him.

If Bell and Olivia ambered before the rest of them, why not reamber Olivia again?

When the Amber protocol is enacted, it is in its gaseous form for a time. During that time, he could have pushed her out, and the others could have seen it before the amber solidified, but not have had time to physically react.

[dawson_son]

no he said YOU HAVE to die not you are GOING to die. In my view September is maybe setting his plan to avoid the observers taking over the world. Olivia dying seems parallel to Harry Potter dying so Voldemort will die.No other way. If you check in s3 finale Olivia "had" to die in order for Peter to use the machine and make a choice within the choice . Who says is not the same. As for Bell . We dont know his motives. I mean the guy with Walter had a manifest and prepared soldiers for a war. We thought it was against the red universe.

In this timeline we dont know Bells motivations if he crossed over to the other side at all, he said in s2 that he went over there to avoid a war that Walters action start. Without Peter Walternate didnt start the shapeshifters with Bell's help. Maybe this time Jones managed to show how special he was to Bell? And they work together? why would Bell work with the observers in order to take over the world and control it? Unless he brought them there or he somehow is behind their existance but we know thats impossible unless Bell timetraveled in the future and start their line .Its all up to theory of course.

To me it seems Bell was trying to get out the amber not push someone out.Besides Peter didn't seem upset at all if the case was that Olivia was pushed out of the amber. Not to mention i doubt if the observers (head observers) knew the location otherwise they would have people to guard the place . So if Bell pushes Olivia out the amber leads to questions

1. If the observers were there and killed her then somehow Broyles might knew? It was his agent
2. The location seemed hidden everyone assume the fringe team was gone they even created legends about them
3. Why Bell would work with a race that travels back in time to take over the earth he has enought ego and still even with the timeline shift unless they promise him POWER why then?

As for Etta . I guess either Nina or Rachel raised her. She changed her name to secure safety since she was the child of two of the fringe team. I guess Broyles knew about her and he kept an eye on her to protect her as well. Nina seemed to know Etta as well but no one knew their connection. We know the observers dont like special people . I dont think any observer did anything to her i think Peter/Olivia are smarter and since the purge knew they had to keep her safe if something happened to them.


Im confused at Bell's motivations . The episode left everything open completely raised more questions than ever.

[Ironheart]

no he said YOU HAVE to die not you are GOING to die. In my view September is maybe setting his plan to avoid the observers taking over the world.

I definitely believe that's what September is doing. He said "I have looked at all possible futures and in every one, the result is the same. You have to die." So he is well aware that the occupation is about to happen. He may be trying to stop it, and he might have been trying to stop it all along. Of course, he said this to Olivia before he ever knew that Peter was back in the timeline (and his device to read people had gone missing, so he couldn't infer that from Olivia). I think that's going to play an important role in the way events unfold. We'll have to see when the next three episodes are released.

[jdavis417]

Looks like he's either reaching for someone (Nina?) or using the force?:shiny:

[qubit]

Many others have pointed out that judging by Etta's remark that she had not seen her parents since she was four, it would mean that she would have had to be conceived/born in 2012, which is the current timeframe in Fringe (apart from 4.19). So by 2015/2016, Olivia would have given birth to Etta by then, so she would not be pregnant (as I doubt her pregnancy lasted through 2012-2015/16).

And Olivia as Bell's daughter? What has led you to consider this idea?

Four once again. I use fuzzy math, the X factor.

Tuscany. A Tuscan Olive from South Australia one of a kind, but I digress.

[krick]

I know it's really subtle here, but when I saw this
3975
It seemed like Bell's positioning was really purposeful.

That's not Bell. That's Simon Foster. Only the first picture is Bell.

[FullMoonMama]

I don't remember Etta having a last name in the show... So how do we know that she changed it?

[Ryan Trevisol]

That's not Bell. That's Simon Foster. Only the first picture is Bell.
Obviously. But they made a point to show us Simon's hands. And they made a point to show us Bell's hands.

[LordManhammer]

Regarding all the posts about Olivia being dead . . . Even though Etta keeps touching that bullet necklace, we don't really know if Olivia is dead. I remember Etta saying something to the effect of "Where is . . . " when Astrid popped out of the Amber. That was also my question, because I thought Olivia was going to come out of the Amber. I feel like she was asking where Olivia was.

(However, I don't know what Bell would have done to her that was unforgivable if it wasn't death).

[dawson_son]

Bell is Bell and you have no idea what is capable to do . Push her out of amber? Send her in another dimension? Kill her? Take parts of her brain for her abilities? Send her in coma? I can come up with dozen stuff ! But again zero confirmation and they could confirm her death in any chance but they left it open the bullet is not enough factor for me for the same reason you said . She was looking for both!

[phx219]

kind of partial to the "DRJ thinks he's working for the good of mankind, was mentored by Bell" and being able to blame Bell for whatever DRJ does....

[Omniscient_Jay]

Four once again. I use fuzzy math, the X factor.

Tuscany. A Tuscan Olive from South Australia one of a kind, but I digress.

Unfortunately, this reads as a non-sequitur to me.

Is this humour, a serious answer, or a combination thereof?:confused0006:

[Ryan Trevisol]

There's a lot of non sequitirs happening in this thread. We went from the possibility of Bell pushing someone out of the amber before it solidified to Bell being Olivia's father.

I love Captain Crunch, do you have a bike?

[Firefly]

I don't think Olivia is dead (yet), as Peter didn't look upset at all.

Bell obviously did something awful though. I believe he pushed her out of the amber and she is now presumably captured somewhere.

The shot of Simon in a 'pushing' motion (he pushed Peter out of the amber) is very telling.

[LordManhammer]

I don't think Olivia is dead (yet), as Peter didn't look upset at all.

Bell obviously did something awful though. I believe he pushed her out of the amber and she is now presumably captured somewhere.

The shot of Simon in a 'pushing' motion (he pushed Peter out of the amber) is very telling.

The only awkward thing with this is if Olivia was captured (a scenario I thought of too) and aged normally, she will be 58ish years old and Peter's roughly 38.

Also awkward - Peter and Henrietta being roughly 14 years apart at the end of the episode.

[spacefilou]

I don't think Olivia is dead (yet), as Peter didn't look upset at all.

Bell obviously did something awful though. I believe he pushed her out of the amber and she is now presumably captured somewhere.

The shot of Simon in a 'pushing' motion (he pushed Peter out of the amber) is very telling.

I don't think she's dead either. Or if she is, then Etta doesn't know, for it seems she was hoping to see her mother in place of Astrid.

What if she was sent to the future and will arrive in 2036 with the same age as in 2012? :P

[BillNye]

I'm pretty sure that whatever Bell did it was before Bell, Walter, Astrid, and Peter got ambered. I think she was the cortexiphan bomb used to destroy the alt. universe (the way we left them doesn't seem like a complete end and this could happen since both worlds are now more seperate, according to Walter, than during S1-3) or in some way used to help bring the Observers in. At the same time though, his posture does seem to suggest pushing someone else out. September? Nina? Broyles? Lincoln?

I am honestly way more interested in Walter's personality change and him reverting to the 1985 Pre-Season 4 self. I think with the Machine now turned off, everyone will remember their original selves and since Pincker and Whyman have said in many ways Walter is both the ultimate Villian and the most noble character...this will make the plot way more interesting.

[Cassiopea]

Although it looks possible from his stance that Bell pushed someone out of the Amber (most likely Olivia) I rather think it looks more like he has his hand raised in a poistion where he is saying "No!" to something or someone, perhaps them taking Olivia and Amber-ing the rest of them. There is a noticeable difference between Bell and Desmond's stances. Desmond (sorry it was just so good to see a Lost actor in Fringe :-D) looked like he had pushed someone, whereas Bell looked like he had his hand raised. Possible he could have nugged someone without the same amount of force as Bell but who knows. They can leave that open to option in series 5 - anyone know yet if that's going ahead?

Either way that Bell's best interests are for the Fringe Team, he is on their side. If he has done something which seems to threaten Olivia then it was for the better good in the long run.

[sunnydey]

Not that I don't believe that Bell may have pushed Olivia out of the amber (it looks as though he may have), but I am kind of hoping for something not so obvious. Hoping we will get some more clues.

[jdavis417]

...

I love Captain Crunch, do you have a bike?

Me too, yes (but it has a flat).
Did you bring me a monkey?:hope:

[Ryan Trevisol]

Me too, yes (but it has a flat).
Did you bring me a monkey?:hope:

EXACTLY. Glad someone caught that. :)

[ag86]

Hmm... Bell's stance was eerily familiar to the last time we see him, as the Fringe team leaves the Red Universe in the Opera House at the end of Season 2... Perhaps he ambered himself to keep his body from exploding?

Wacky theory and filled with holes, but why else would be alive?

[phx219]

because of the lack of Peter, Walternate never came to get him, and Olivia never had to crossover to retrieve him. Bell never had to die.

[AltObserver]

no he said YOU HAVE to die not you are GOING to die. In my view September is maybe setting his plan to avoid the observers taking over the world. Olivia dying seems parallel to Harry Potter dying so Voldemort will die.No other way. If you check in s3 finale Olivia "had" to die in order for Peter to use the machine and make a choice within the choice . Who says is not the same. As for Bell . We dont know his motives. I mean the guy with Walter had a manifest and prepared soldiers for a war. We thought it was against the red universe.

Yes, I agree.
From what we know from this season, and especially 4.19, it seems like September is trying to prevent whatever the Observers are trying to do (which we now know is the Observer take-over)
He said "you have to die" for a reason. I think he was telling her she had to die in order to prevent the 2015 takeover.
Perhaps in the future, her daughter Henrietta will help defeat the Observers. Maybe the events that lead to Henrietta's birth somehow lead to Olivia's death...and so Olivia must die in order to make sure Henrietta is born, to fight the Observers.

[Bishops'_House_of_Horrors]

Excellent point. What if Olivia is like her alternate with the genetic condition that makes it really unlikely for her to survive childbirth?