Peter died.

[Daedalus]

:tiphat:
Looking into this episode, I realized, Peter sure remembers a lot from his childhood. Though, a lot of the things he doesn't seem to remember, Walter always brings it up. Many of the things Walter has said seem to allude to the fact that Peter was different...

What I think happened, was that the very sick Peter died at the age of six in 1985. Walter having the ability to do so, traveled into the alternate reality and takes his son with him back to his own reality.

-I'm assuming that the original Peter had blue eyes, like that little factoid that Walter threw at us in the beginning, this Peter has green.
-The original Peter was probably chubbier than the Peter that we've come to know, as Walter graciously points out in their first meeting after many years lol.
-Peter seems to remember a lot, though, his memory of his past and Walter's memory seem not to mesh at certain points, and I'm guessing that those points are where things vary from Reality to Reality.

Thoughts? :happy15:

**AWESOME FINALE RIGHT?

[Fringified]

I think this topic will be the main focus of a lot of talk, since we don't have thousands of new theories to deal with. But this was a turn that really caught my attention, and I love that the writers decided to do this :)

[Matthew]

It's funny when we look back now at little things throughout the season, like when Walter had the box of Peter's toys, and Peter says that they weren't his. Little things like that now should have made this obvious.

[Jacqueline]

From Safe, Peter and Walter about how Peter got really sick from Hepea. Perhaps he did die (Walter didn't want to say and totally freak Peter out) so he went to an alternate reality and got back the Healthy-Peter, but they had to bury the Sick-Peter's body. And so there was the gravestone. And here's Peter this universe.

[ntou45]

Can't wait to see the current Walter who thinks his son was kidnapped ages ago, not knowing it was really himself. boy that'll be a twist

[redcottage33]

Can't wait to see the current Walter who thinks his son was kidnapped ages ago, not knowing it was really himself. boy that'll be a twist

Unless the other Walter had to die in order for our Walter to visit the Alternate Reality...

[Obyron]

Or possibly coexistence made them merge, and that's why Walter is crazy, and also why he saw alter-Walter in his head when he went back to the institution. That would dovetail with the theory someone else posted that the near-car wreck when Olivia was on the way meet Bell was MD offing Alter-Olivia so she could cross realities. The number of people who have actually crossed over seems pretty small at this point.

That theory doesn't really ring true to me, but it came to mind when I read your post. It'd "feel" more right in a "this is how TV shows work" way if there still is a physical Alter-Walter, and he's tearing the universe apart trying to get his son back while destroying the man who took him away. It would make him very much like our Walter, and it would make him a compelling antagonist. The best villains are the ones we can identify with.

Edited to add: It'd also give John Noble a chance to show off those "evil crazy" acting chops in addition to his "adorable crazy" chops. It'd be Walter Bishop's genius meeting Denethor's bat-sh(ugar!) insanity.

[Cathy904]

Ideas are flying that Alter-Walter is tearing up this universe looking for his son, but he's also doing these crazy, 'showing off' experiments.

I hope the writers are staying ahead of the fans. :haha:

If Peter was kidnapped when he was 8, that's after the Cortexiphan trials were done on Olivia, when she was 3.

[lilpopcorn]

Unless the other Walter had to die in order for our Walter to visit the Alternate Reality...


I don't think alter-Walter had to die. I believe they can co-exist somehow.

Remember the previous episode where Olivia went to the other dimension? I don't think alter-Olivia had to die in order for our Olivia to enter. She was there talking to Broyles and Charlie in that episode.

Also, I think the crash may have been a result of her crossing to the other dimension. The car that she hit wasn't there in our dimension. That would explain why she didn't see the car until it was too late. When she entered the other dimension the car was already there and she couldn't avoid it.

[QuantumAttraction]

Peter "Prime" died and Walter was so devastated by what happened that he went to the other Universe and abducted Peter "Parallel" to keep as his own.

[Za Lords Lt.]

Peter "Prime" died and Walter was so devastated by what happened that he went to the other Universe and abducted Peter "Parallel" to keep as his own.

Right. So Parallel Peter is "our" Peter in that he's the one we've been seeing, but Peter "Prime" is also "our" Peter in that he's the Peter from reality we've been seeing. Am I getting this?

What's say we call the Peter that died "Bob" or something...

[Squinty63]

Right. So Parallel Peter is "our" Peter in that he's the one we've been seeing, but Peter "Prime" is also "our" Peter in that he's the Peter from reality we've been seeing. Am I getting this?

What's say we call the Peter that died "Bob" or something...

How bout the Peter we all know and love/hate/eh being called "Peter" and the dead Peter being called "DeadPeter" or "SickPeter". I personally would bend towards DeadPete

[Matthew]

How bout the Peter we all know and love/hate/eh being called "Peter" and the dead Peter being called "DeadPeter" or "SickPeter". I personally would bend towards DeadPeteI know I have settled on Alter-Peter, named after his father Alter-Walter.

[SlipKid]

I know I have settled on Alter-Peter, named after his father Alter-Walter.

But which Peter would that be? :D

We should call "our" Peter "Peter" since we'll probably be seeing him more often than his dead 7-year-old counterpart

[matthew1786]

Early on in the season didn't Walter say something about how they were stuck in a car under water and the observer came and helped them out or something along those lines? That would explain the location chosenin tonight's; the lake.

Maybe Peter died, Walter couldn't live with himself, and thats what motivated him to find the observer who took alter-peter into our world. It seems to me that walter is physically unable to cross over. it would make sense that only cortexafan induced humans can cross over.

[Ziropiro]

This episode makes me really happy in how things come full circle, and how the depths of Walter come into play. Half of these horrible things that have been happening, were caused BECAUSE, Walter stole Peter from the other side.

If Walter never developed the technology, then Jones would have stayed in prison. Many of the actions of ZFT would have never happened as Jones had no reason to pursue such actions. Half of the problems caused were caused by Peter's kidnapping.

Also on the theory about Walter being of both dimensions, note how Walter is completely cognitive about the time before peter died, and how he becomes confused after.

[Arsenal4life]

:tiphat:
Looking into this episode, I realized, Peter sure remembers a lot from his childhood. Though, a lot of the things he doesn't seem to remember, Walter always brings it up. Many of the things Walter has said seem to allude to the fact that Peter was different...

What I think happened, was that the very sick Peter died at the age of six in 1985. Walter having the ability to do so, traveled into the alternate reality and takes his son with him back to his own reality.

-I'm assuming that the original Peter had blue eyes, like that little factoid that Walter threw at us in the beginning, this Peter has green.
-The original Peter was probably chubbier than the Peter that we've come to know, as Walter graciously points out in their first meeting after many years lol.
-Peter seems to remember a lot, though, his memory of his past and Walter's memory seem not to mesh at certain points, and I'm guessing that those points are where things vary from Reality to Reality.

Thoughts? :happy15:

**AWESOME FINALE RIGHT?

probably tats y wen peter asks walted y he did open the windows he says he lost something............n had to go to another universe to get it............so..............

[kleppy57]

^^^ keeps making me think that the accident did not really happen for some reason its sorta a cover for walter to explain easily, well actually lie to alter-peter about how walter truly met the Observer.

since the relationship between walter and the observer is all hearsay then we will not fully understand how these two "wierdos" met.

i wanna know why the observer keeps saying he cant interfere BUT keeps telling walter what to do at the beach house.

also, i have asked this but I cannot for the life of me remember the story of how Mrs. Bishop died.

[moof]

But Peter remembers the accident and Thanksgiving. He does not remember earlier incidents

[Xeen]

he saw alter-Walter in his head when he went back to the institution.

now that we know about the whole multiverse, we can posit that alter-Walter was really at Sainte-Claire's and not only a figment in Walter's mind, making sure our Walter gets the punishment he deserves because he robbed him of his son.
Xeen

[Daisy]

Cross Posted in Riden Lake Thread

Here's what I think happened - PeterI died in 1985. Walter decides to get alter-Peter -however there are
a) Technical difficulties -it's not so easy to cross dimensions
b) Practical difficulties -how do you bring back a 7 year old that will remember a different life

So I think in the alternate universe (with the help of the Observer) Walter brought Peter back to our dimension - but it's a pretty catastrophic thing, so they had to create a catastrophic event for Peter that would help a 7 year old adjust, so I think the crash happened in the alternate universe and perhaps they both had to die, because the safest way to move between dimensions at the time is to suspend life (freeze both of them) and then when the Observer pulled them out of the other side of the lake he pulled them into our dimension.

In short I think the crash was a way to facilitate the move between the dimensions.

ETA - It has to go along with what Peter remembers.
ETA2 - I think going to get Peter made Walter a bit crazy, so he wanted to protect Peter on his 'travels' and so that's why they were "frozen"

[Fringeling]

Cross Posted in Riden Lake Thread

Here's what I think happened - PeterI died in 1985. Walter decides to get alter-Peter -however there are
a) Technical difficulties -it's not so easy to cross dimensions
b) Practical difficulties -how do you bring back a 7 year old that will remember a different life

So I think in the alternate universe (with the help of the Observer) Walter brought Peter back to our dimension - but it's a pretty catastrophic thing, so they had to create a catastrophic event for Peter that would help a 7 year old adjust, so I think the crash happened in the alternate universe and perhaps they both had to die, because the safest way to move between dimensions at the time is to suspend life (freeze both of them) and then when the Observer pulled them out of the other side of the lake he pulled them into our dimension.

In short I think the crash was a way to facilitate the move between the dimensions.

ETA - It has to go along with what Peter remembers.
ETA2 - I think going to get Peter made Walter a bit crazy, so he wanted to protect Peter on his 'travels' and so that's why they were "frozen"
Hmm ... and orchestrated crash ... I like this idea :happy0025:

[Daisy]

Maybe not even an actual crash per se
But you have a 7 year old kid driving along, you drug him, and then get both of you into a suspended frozen state for the transfer and then when you wake up you both on the side of the lake, wet and cold. You tell the kid you crashed into the lake, but you didn't really -the whole thing is just a cover story that the kid can believe - the location of the lake is important and so is the resuscitating/freezing part, so it all fits together.
And then the kid doesn't remember things so well -you can say - it is all because of the wreck!

[Fringeling]

Maybe not even an actual crash per se
But you have a 7 year old kid driving along, you drug him, and then get both of you into a suspended frozen state for the transfer and then when you wake up you both on the side of the lake, wet and cold. You tell the kid you crashed into the lake, but you didn't really -the whole thing is just a cover story that the kid can believe - the location of the lake is important and so is the resuscitating/freezing part, so it all fits together.
And then the kid doesn't remember things so well -you can say - it is all because of the wreck!
Yeah I see what you're saying ... however, does this mean that Walter already knew the Observer would be involved?:confused0006:

[Daisy]

Yeah I see what you're saying ... however, does this mean that Walter already knew the Observer would be involved?:confused0006:

Good question -I think so ??? Hmmm

Maybe when Walter crossed dimensions, the Observer stepped in because this was not supposed to happen. The Observer then agreed to help Walter and help Walter get Peter across safely.

[Cathy904]

Hmmmm. How about Reneil Lake (sp?) being the lake they crashed into? :ohyeah:

[Daisy]

Hmmmm. How about Reneil Lake (sp?) being the lake they crashed into? :ohyeah:

Reiden? Yeah that's my point!

[lezario]

Maybe our Walter picked alter-Peter at his school, and alter-Peter didn't know that he wasn't the alter-Walter.... :confused0006:
If it was the night of thanksgiving, when they had that accident, maybe it happened the same thing than with the truck : the car was "cut" and Walter lost control, alter-Peter and him ended up in the lake, September helped him...


But you have a 7 year old kid driving along, you drug him, and then get both of you into a suspended frozen state for the transfer and then when you wake up you both on the side of the lake, wet and cold. You tell the kid you crashed into the lake, but you didn't really -the whole thing is just a cover story that the kid can believe - the location of the lake is important and so is the resuscitating/freezing part, so it all fits together.
And then the kid doesn't remember things so well -you can say - it is all because of the wreck!
your theory actually makes more sense than mine... :]


Yeah I see what you're saying ... however, does this mean that Walter already knew the Observer would be involved?:confused0006:

I don't think Walter knew the Observer would be here, i think that's really the first time they met.
The observer is always here and there, he may be travelling through realities, so i guess he wanted to come in our reality, and ended up helping Walter.... or somehow, he knew what Walter was about to do, and told him that he would help him get alter-Peter if Walter promised to return the favor by building the portal-closing device or hiding the beacon...

do i make any sense ? :confused:

[Daisy]

Maybe our Walter picked alter-Peter at his school, and alter-Peter didn't know that he wasn't the alter-Walter.... :confused0006:
If it was the night of thanksgiving, when they had that accident, maybe it happened the same thing than with the truck : the car was "cut" and Walter lost control, alter-Peter and him ended up in the lake, September helped him...


your theory actually makes more sense than mine... :]



I don't think Walter knew the Observer would be here, i think that's really the first time they met.
The observer is always here and there, he may be travelling through realities, so i guess he wanted to come in our reality, and ended up helping Walter.... or somehow, he knew what Walter was about to do, and told him that he would help him get alter-Peter if Walter promised to return the favor by building the portal-closing device or hiding the beacon...

do i make any sense ? :confused:

You do make sense -and I like hearing/reading all the theories!

[teknocrat]

It is possible the Observer appears when there is a short distance between the worlds to "observe" who or what crosses through. Walter could have met him the first time when he built the "time machine".

It is also possible that they didn't mean to land in a lake perhaps dimensional travel in a station wagon is not the most accurate method. This is where he made the deal with the observer just like the episode showed.

[monophonic]

What's the deal with the coin? Could that be a coin from the other world?

[Za Lords Lt.]

I know I have settled on Alter-Peter, named after his father Alter-Walter.

Rotfl, "Alter-Walter"! It has such a nice ring to it!! :tiphat:

[shahe]

What's the deal with the coin? Could that be a coin from the other world?

The first coin Walter got from the observer is the coin from the other world. The original coin was on Walter's box and used to be Original Peter's favorite coin. The Peter we see now doesn't remember the coin because he never collected coins

[VilS]

What's the deal with the coin? Could that be a coin from the other world?

I don't know, but I do know that Doug McKenzie played a hand double in one of the episodes. (Magic is a hobby of mine so I saw the video on a magic community website).

[Za Lords Lt.]

I don't know, but I do know that Doug McKenzie played a hand double in one of the episodes. (Magic is a hobby of mine so I saw the video on a magic community website).

Yeah, that was Inner Child, right? Looks like Joshua Jackson actually did the trick himself this time, though. Pretty cool.:D

[VilS]

Yeah, that was Inner Child, right? Looks like Joshua Jackson actually did the trick himself this time, though. Pretty cool.:D

Yeah it might have been, I'll see if I can find the vid.

FOUND: http://media.theory11.com/1654-Doug-McKenzie---Hand-Model

[Daisy]

Yeah I sort of cheered when it looked like Josh did his own trick this time. From what I've read about him, I would guess he would have been working on that since the last time he had to do it.
It was sooo obvious it wasn't Josh last time.

[SlipKid]

Okay, so I've got a lollipops and fluffy bunnies theory about crash in the lake, I agree that it was probably the crossing over point, it can't be a coincidence. But our Peter remembers it, maybe alter-Peter (ours) and and alter-Walter were in a car crash (maybe Peter's mom too to make this work beautifully) and Walter (and maybe Peter's mom) died leaving someone free to grab an orphaned alter-Peter and pull him into our reality, He'd be none-the-wiser and our Walter would have a version of his son back with no fight. Maybe Peter mark 1 died of his illness and Walter was just trying to break through the barrier when the Observer presented him with the opportunity to make it a case of inter-dimensional adoption, as opposed to inter-dimensional kidnapping.

However I'll admit that this version is kind of a cop-out, and I do kind of like the idea of a pissed-off Alter-Walter out there trying to get his son back.

[Daisy]

Okay, so I've got a lollipops and fluffy bunnies theory about crash in the lake, I agree that it was probably the crossing over point, it can't be a coincidence. But our Peter remembers it, maybe alter-Peter (ours) and and alter-Walter were in a car crash (maybe Peter's mom too to make this work beautifully) and Walter (and maybe Peter's mom) died leaving someone free to grab an orphaned alter-Peter and pull him into to our reality, He'd be none-the-wiser and our Walter would have a version of his son back with no fight. Maybe Peter mark 1 died of his illness and Walter was just trying to break through the barrier when the Observer presented him with the opportunity to make it a case of inter-dimensional adoption, as opposed to inter-dimensional kidnapping.

However I'll admit that this version is kind of a cop-out, and I do kind of like the idea of a pissed-off Alter-Walter out there trying to get his son back.


If you could pick which dimension you went back to - I mean of all the trillions of possibilities, there might be one where a Peter was orphaned -BUT I think that's really too convenient.

[SlipKid]

If you could pick which dimension you went back to - I mean of all the trillions of possibilities, there might be one where a Peter was orphaned -BUT I think that's really too convenient.

I agree:D I doubt it's actually the case, It's just the happiest way things could have gone down

[Daisy]

YEah -I don't think it is going to be happy - I can hear Peter now -

You took me away from my parents and my life? You mean you kidnapped me! And brought me here and connected me to a car battery? You brought me to a world where I could never belong! How could you?!

[VilS]

Okay, so I've got a lollipops and fluffy bunnies theory about crash in the lake, I agree that it was probably the crossing over point, it can't be a coincidence. But our Peter remembers it, maybe alter-Peter (ours) and and alter-Walter were in a car crash (maybe Peter's mom too to make this work beautifully) and Walter (and maybe Peter's mom) died leaving someone free to grab an orphaned alter-Peter and pull him into our reality, He'd be none-the-wiser and our Walter would have a version of his son back with no fight. Maybe Peter mark 1 died of his illness and Walter was just trying to break through the barrier when the Observer presented him with the opportunity to make it a case of inter-dimensional adoption, as opposed to inter-dimensional kidnapping.

However I'll admit that this version is kind of a cop-out, and I do kind of like the idea of a pissed-off Alter-Walter out there trying to get his son back.


Interesting...

I personally think that Walter somehow set up the crash in the lake with Alter-Walter and Alter-Peter, he then traveled to collect Alter-Peter and took him back, and the Observer observed the matter and pulled them out of the frozen lake where they came back.

[Fringeling]

Interesting...

I personally think that Walter somehow set up the crash in the lake with Alter-Walter and Alter-Peter, he then traveled to collect Alter-Peter and took him back, and the Observer observed the matter and pulled them out of the frozen lake where they came back.

Okay, here is where my problem is:

I'd say that PeterPrime died in this world (probably from hepea or whatever). Then he was switched with AlterPeter from another dimension.

BUT --- how did the Observer get PeterPrime's coin that he collected? In my mind, he would have had to have had contact with PeterPrime, right?

So here is what I'm thinking:

Peter was sick with hepea, and was dying. He collected coins to keep himself happy, just like Walter said. They were driving home on Thanksgiving one night when they had their car accident .. BAM, into the frozen water they go.

Observer comes along, switches out Peter with a new one (the one that survived the car accident from an alternate timeline at the same moment PeterPrime died in the car accident) --- and takes the coin knowing he'll need it at a future date. So we now have the perfectly swapped out Peter ----

---- so, along comes the grand moment when the Observer will again need Walter to help prevent a dimensional opening and "plug the hole" He whips out the coin he took from dying hepea Peter at the car accident, reminding Walter of it. Walter then remembers something about the coin, and starts to recollect that Peter did in fact die from hepea.

HOWEVER, Walter has an alternate coin that Peter collected from when he was previously sick as well --- in that dust covered box which has the portal plug in it.

So now we have two dillemas (based off the assumptions I've made :D):

1) Why would the Observer have one coin from a Peter who suffered from hepea, and Walter have another different coin supposedly from a Peter who also suffered with Hepea .... yet our Peter remembers nothing about collecting coins for this reason?

2) If the Observer switched out the Peter's at the car accident, then why is there a dead Peter in the ground? Did the Observer return the dead Peter to bury him?

I think we might be dealing with something else here we might not have considered.

My Grand Speculative Theory:

I think the dying hepea Peter was in the original car crash, where he did in fact die in the crash (in what I'll call Dimension One). The Observer showed up,and out of his affection for Walter (speculation elsewhere :D), swapped Peter out with one who did in fact survive the crash (from Dimension Two). The Observer then pocketed the coin for use on a later date. But here is where the difference comes in ... instead of simply leaving Walter and Peter IN THIS dimension (Dimension One), the original dimension where Walter and PeterPrime were from, he placed them in a completely alternate timeline TOGETHER (Dimension 3) ... :happy15: ... a suitable timeline if you will, one where Peter died from hepea before the crash ever took place. This timeline is the one we see now (Dimension 3), and that is why we see Peter's gravesite --- because in the dimension they now live in Peter died from hepea in 1985, never making it to the car crash at all.

But there was a problem ... a sacrifice that needed to be made. In this new dimension (Dimension 3), where the Observer was going to place AlterPeter and OriginalWalter, there was a catch. Walter was still living in Dimension 3! But the Walter living there was not the Walter we have come to know and love .... that Walter was more cold and lacked ethics, etc etc. So the Observer displaced that Walter, switching them out with a more prefferable Walter. And the Walter that got displaced so that OriginalWalter (the one we know) and AlterPeter (the one we know) could live together was none other than the AlterWalter, the somewhat malevolent version of Walter we got a glimpse of in St. Claires and the one who apparently haunts Walter occassionally in his labnotes. Why is he so hateful towards Walter? Becuase he got displaced so that Walter could enjoy living with his son again while he himself cannot, that's why!

So, this could explain (I think :o) why: there is a dead Peter in the ground, and an alternate Peter who is alive, a Walter who struggles with memories in this dimension, an AlterWalter who appears pissed off and malevolent, ,an Observer who is involved and has the coin from one of the dead Peters, and why we have 2 different coins from possibly two different dead Peters! So to summarize, we're dealing with a 3rd Peter, not a 2nd Peter, and an original Walter who displaced another Walter --- leaving both the Peter and Walter that we know living in another dimension from their own home dimensions! So the dimension we have been dealing with from day one of this series IS NOT only another dimension for Peter, it is another one for Walter as well.:ninja:

I'm going to go have some butterscotch pudding now!:cookiemonster:

Feel free to shoot a machine gun at this theory, as I'd really like to get a coherent theory nailed down on just where the fringe Peter came from.

[purpledew]

Okay, here is where my problem is:

I'd say that PeterPrime died in this world (probably from hepea or whatever). Then he was switched with AlterPeter from another dimension.

BUT --- how did the Observer get PeterPrime's coin that he collected? In my mind, he would have had to have had contact with PeterPrime, right?

So here is what I'm thinking:

Peter was sick with hepea, and was dying. He collected coins to keep himself happy, just like Walter said. They were driving home on Thanksgiving one night when they had their car accident .. BAM, into the frozen water they go.

Observer comes along, switches out Peter with a new one (the one that survived the car accident from an alternate timeline at the same moment PeterPrime died in the car accident) --- and takes the coin knowing he'll need it at a future date. So we now have the perfectly swapped out Peter ----

---- so, along comes the grand moment when the Observer will again need Walter to help prevent a dimensional opening and "plug the hole" He whips out the coin he took from dying hepea Peter at the car accident, reminding Walter of it. Walter then remembers something about the coin, and starts to recollect that Peter did in fact die from hepea.

HOWEVER, Walter has an alternate coin that Peter collected from when he was previously sick as well --- in that dust covered box which has the portal plug in it.

So now we have two dillemas (based off the assumptions I've made :D):

1) Why would the Observer have one coin from a Peter who suffered from hepea, and Walter have another different coin supposedly from a Peter who also suffered with Hepea .... yet our Peter remembers nothing about collecting coins for this reason?

2) If the Observer switched out the Peter's at the car accident, then why is there a dead Peter in the ground? Did the Observer return the dead Peter to bury him?

I think we might be dealing with something else here we might not have considered.

My Grand Speculative Theory:

I think the dying hepea Peter was in the original car crash, where he did in fact die in the crash (in what I'll call Dimension One). The Observer showed up,and out of his affection for Walter (speculation elsewhere :D), swapped Peter out with one who did in fact survive the crash (from Dimension Two). The Observer then pocketed the coin for use on a later date. But here is where the difference comes in ... instead of simply leaving Walter and Peter IN THIS dimension (Dimension One), the original dimension where Walter and PeterPrime were from, he placed them in a completely alternate timeline TOGETHER (Dimension 3) ... :happy15: ... a suitable timeline if you will, one where Peter died from hepea before the crash ever took place. This timeline is the one we see now (Dimension 3), and that is why we see Peter's gravesite --- because in the dimension they now live in Peter died from hepea in 1985, never making it to the car crash at all.

But there was a problem ... a sacrifice that needed to be made. In this new dimension (Dimension 3), where the Observer was going to place AlterPeter and OriginalWalter, there was a catch. Walter was still living in Dimension 3! But the Walter living there was not the Walter we have come to know and love .... that Walter was more cold and lacked ethics, etc etc. So the Observer displaced that Walter, switching them out with a more prefferable Walter. And the Walter that got displaced so that OriginalWalter (the one we know) and AlterPeter (the one we know) could live together was none other than the AlterWalter, the somewhat malevolent version of Walter we got a glimpse of in St. Claires and the one who apparently haunts Walter occassionally in his labnotes. Why is he so hateful towards Walter? Becuase he got displaced so that Walter could enjoy living with his son again while he himself cannot, that's why!

So, this could explain (I think :o) why: there is a dead Peter in the ground, and an alternate Peter who is alive, a Walter who struggles with memories in this dimension, an AlterWalter who appears pissed off and malevolent, ,an Observer who is involved and has the coin from one of the dead Peters, and why we have 2 different coins from possibly two different dead Peters! So to summarize, we're dealing with a 3rd Peter, not a 2nd Peter, and an original Walter who displaced another Walter --- leaving both the Peter and Walter that we know living in another dimension from their own home dimensions! So the dimension we have been dealing with from day one of this series IS NOT only another dimension for Peter, it is another one for Walter as well.:ninja:

I'm going to go have some butterscotch pudding now!:cookiemonster:

Feel free to shoot a machine gun at this theory, as I'd really like to get a coherent theory nailed down on just where the fringe Peter came from.

Oh my lord, that's a speculation and a half. It does fit, but blimey, I need to go and find a 4th dimension to untangle my confuzzled brain, if that's the way it's going it's gonna make Lost look like Days of our Lives! :haha:

And Fringeling, I am hereby crowning you The Master of Theories!! :tiphat:

[xofringe314]

Have they ever told us what happened to Peter's mother? I'm not sure, but I don't think so. Although this goes against Fringeling's theory which is totally awesome, maybe Walter sent his wife to another dimension to get another Peter, but she didn't make it through in time and is stuck in another dimension. Or maybe she was cut in half like Jones! There was also a picture of Peter and Walter in the beachhouse and I believe the other person in the picture was Peter's mother, but you can't see clearly because there was dust over the person's face.

[VilS]

Have they ever told us what happened to Peter's mother? I'm not sure, but I don't think so. Although this goes against Fringeling's theory which is totally awesome, maybe Walter sent his wife to another dimension to get another Peter, but she didn't make it through in time and is stuck in another dimension. Or maybe she was cut in half like Jones! There was also a picture of Peter and Walter in the beachhouse and I believe the other person in the picture was Peter's mother, but you can't see clearly because there was dust over the person's face.

I've got a strong feeling that the next season will contain information about his mother.

Or maybe his mother was called Peter and that he isn't alternate Peter he is real Peter and dead Peter is alive Peters mother... wait, no that wont work out.

[SFJenn]

Walter did invent a device that altered time and that is what that other guy was looking for earlier on in the series. Walter probably went back and grabbed the healthy Peter after the sick young Peter died in his plane of existence. He then buried Peter. Perhaps his mind couldn't handle all the jumping around in the different realities and that is why he was in the mental facility.

[Deknor]

:tiphat:
Looking into this episode, I realized, Peter sure remembers a lot from his childhood. Though, a lot of the things he doesn't seem to remember, Walter always brings it up. Many of the things Walter has said seem to allude to the fact that Peter was different...

What I think happened, was that the very sick Peter died at the age of six in 1985. Walter having the ability to do so, traveled into the alternate reality and takes his son with him back to his own reality.

-I'm assuming that the original Peter had blue eyes, like that little factoid that Walter threw at us in the beginning, this Peter has green.
-The original Peter was probably chubbier than the Peter that we've come to know, as Walter graciously points out in their first meeting after many years lol.
-Peter seems to remember a lot, though, his memory of his past and Walter's memory seem not to mesh at certain points, and I'm guessing that those points are where things vary from Reality to Reality.

Thoughts? :happy15:

**AWESOME FINALE RIGHT?

His eyes were green as a child, and blue now. Just a simple mistake. I've always wondered why this peter had blue eyes.

[purpledew]

I've got a strong feeling that the next season will contain information about his mother.

Or maybe his mother was called Peter and that he isn't alternate Peter he is real Peter and dead Peter is alive Peters mother... wait, no that wont work out.

:haha::haha::haha: I've been doing that all day on here.

Well, maybe, he did this and she did that and then they went here... Yeah! Wow!....... oh wait....... bugga :rolleye0014:

[yvaine]

Fringeling, your theory seems snug and lines up nicely. However, what's gotten me thinking is it seems that Walter's decision to get another Peter from another dimension is sort of a starting point for all the bizarre events unfolding in the Fringe Original Dimension (F.O.D., the one that we primarily see in the show), a lot of them radiating out (rather than in) from Reiden Lake. It's possible that things didn't turn out as neat and that not everything fell into place as in your theory. Still don't know how to account for the coin, though. @_@

[jjesusfreak01]

Heres how it went down...

Peter died of this awful disease. Walter went to the alternate dimension to get the other Peter, at which point he mixed with the alternate dimension Walter (as this is what happens when two of the same person enter a single dimension), causing his MPD. Bringing Peter back to the shows dimension occurred at the lake, at which point the "accident" occurred. They are both saved by the observer, and live out their lives.

The dimensional theory is evidenced by the fact that alternate dimension Olivia was killed off in a car wreck before show dimension Olivia was transported to the other dimension to avoid her sharing Walter's fate.

I think that covers it. Any questions?

[Fringeling]

Fringeling, your theory seems snug and lines up nicely. However, what's gotten me thinking is it seems that Walter's decision to get another Peter from another dimension is sort of a starting point for all the bizarre events unfolding in the Fringe Original Dimension (F.O.D., the one that we primarily see in the show), a lot of them radiating out (rather than in) from Reiden Lake. It's possible that things didn't turn out as neat and that not everything fell into place as in your theory. Still don't know how to account for the coin, though. @_@

Oh there are definitely loop holes ---- and I don't necessarily like my idea that we are dealing with a 3rd Peter ---- it seems like a cop-out answer to the "riddle". But the Observer having the coin and yet there is a dead Peter buried in this world throws me off. And the fact that Walter says both he and Peter died in the car wreck, and never claims that Peter died from hepea --- yet all of the timeframe surrounding everything would seem to speak of the dead Peter being the hepea Peter.

EXCEPT that is about the original Pattern event eminating from Reiden Lake. When asked about it, Broyles says the initial pattern event goes back more than fifteen years. This would place the Reiden Lake event around 1994 --- the same time Jones stopped working for MD. If the event took place in 1985, why not say "the first pattern event goes back more than 24 years" or something? By the way --- in 1994, Peter would have been 16 years old, and Walter would have been in St. Claires!!!

Also, I think it's hard to formulate a proper theory using Walter's memory and data as part of the info. The same goes for Broyles and Nina unfortunately. So, if Walter remembers the hepea incident wrong, or the Lake crash wrongly, or Nina and Broyles are not forthcoming regarding initial Pattern incidents, then what can we know? :ashamed0001::tiphat: That is why we'll probably have a million and one theories until next season!!! Kudos to the writers for providing us with a proper mystery and just enough clues to make it interesting :happy15:

[yvaine]

Aren't we thankful now you created that timeline graphic? It's really paying off now that we can actually refer to it and get dates and analyze info! Good job. ;)

Is it possible the real record of the first Pattern event got lost? Or was covered up? Because it's interesting that the FBI doesn't have records of Peter's medical condition or his "death".

[dancingphantom]

perhaps in peters reality the illness he was supposed to have gotten as a child isn't as serious as it would be in our reality. maybe it never went extinct in his reality and was on the same level as say chicken pox. our peter died from something other that bird flu, he got pulled over here, got sick and was taken to the doctors. and everyone was like "oh my god! he's got bird flu!" only he got better. that could be a good reason for walter to build a teloporter. he was scared to loss peter a second time. well just a thought.

[Daisy]

Okay, here is where my problem is:

I'd say that PeterPrime died in this world (probably from hepea or whatever). Then he was switched with AlterPeter from another dimension.

BUT --- how did the Observer get PeterPrime's coin that he collected? In my mind, he would have had to have had contact with PeterPrime, right?

So here is what I'm thinking:

Peter was sick with hepea, and was dying. He collected coins to keep himself happy, just like Walter said. They were driving home on Thanksgiving one night when they had their car accident .. BAM, into the frozen water they go.

Observer comes along, switches out Peter with a new one (the one that survived the car accident from an alternate timeline at the same moment PeterPrime died in the car accident) --- and takes the coin knowing he'll need it at a future date. So we now have the perfectly swapped out Peter ----

---- so, along comes the grand moment when the Observer will again need Walter to help prevent a dimensional opening and "plug the hole" He whips out the coin he took from dying hepea Peter at the car accident, reminding Walter of it. Walter then remembers something about the coin, and starts to recollect that Peter did in fact die from hepea.

HOWEVER, Walter has an alternate coin that Peter collected from when he was previously sick as well --- in that dust covered box which has the portal plug in it.

So now we have two dillemas (based off the assumptions I've made :D):

1) Why would the Observer have one coin from a Peter who suffered from hepea, and Walter have another different coin supposedly from a Peter who also suffered with Hepea .... yet our Peter remembers nothing about collecting coins for this reason?

2) If the Observer switched out the Peter's at the car accident, then why is there a dead Peter in the ground? Did the Observer return the dead Peter to bury him?

I think we might be dealing with something else here we might not have considered.

My Grand Speculative Theory:

I think the dying hepea Peter was in the original car crash, where he did in fact die in the crash (in what I'll call Dimension One). The Observer showed up,and out of his affection for Walter (speculation elsewhere :D), swapped Peter out with one who did in fact survive the crash (from Dimension Two). The Observer then pocketed the coin for use on a later date. But here is where the difference comes in ... instead of simply leaving Walter and Peter IN THIS dimension (Dimension One), the original dimension where Walter and PeterPrime were from, he placed them in a completely alternate timeline TOGETHER (Dimension 3) ... :happy15: ... a suitable timeline if you will, one where Peter died from hepea before the crash ever took place. This timeline is the one we see now (Dimension 3), and that is why we see Peter's gravesite --- because in the dimension they now live in Peter died from hepea in 1985, never making it to the car crash at all.

But there was a problem ... a sacrifice that needed to be made. In this new dimension (Dimension 3), where the Observer was going to place AlterPeter and OriginalWalter, there was a catch. Walter was still living in Dimension 3! But the Walter living there was not the Walter we have come to know and love .... that Walter was more cold and lacked ethics, etc etc. So the Observer displaced that Walter, switching them out with a more prefferable Walter. And the Walter that got displaced so that OriginalWalter (the one we know) and AlterPeter (the one we know) could live together was none other than the AlterWalter, the somewhat malevolent version of Walter we got a glimpse of in St. Claires and the one who apparently haunts Walter occassionally in his labnotes. Why is he so hateful towards Walter? Becuase he got displaced so that Walter could enjoy living with his son again while he himself cannot, that's why!

So, this could explain (I think :o) why: there is a dead Peter in the ground, and an alternate Peter who is alive, a Walter who struggles with memories in this dimension, an AlterWalter who appears pissed off and malevolent, ,an Observer who is involved and has the coin from one of the dead Peters, and why we have 2 different coins from possibly two different dead Peters! So to summarize, we're dealing with a 3rd Peter, not a 2nd Peter, and an original Walter who displaced another Walter --- leaving both the Peter and Walter that we know living in another dimension from their own home dimensions! So the dimension we have been dealing with from day one of this series IS NOT only another dimension for Peter, it is another one for Walter as well.:ninja:

I'm going to go have some butterscotch pudding now!:cookiemonster:

Feel free to shoot a machine gun at this theory, as I'd really like to get a coherent theory nailed down on just where the fringe Peter came from.


Okay I think 3 Peter's is just too much - I think when Peter was sick Walter visited the other dimension for help/info and brought back a coin from his travels as a gift for his sick son. Maybe while he was there he checked out Peter2 as part of his research. Then when Peter1 died Walter got the idea to get Peter 2. But the coin was already over in Fringe Season 1 reality and the Observer just brought a new one to help Walter remember.

I also think that the Pattern would have started after Bell/ZFT strated taking hold and I don't think Walter getting Peter would have caught the FBI's attention. I think the pattern is related to the specific experiments gone wrong, but the experiments didn't start until Walter was instutionalized.

[ghost]

I agree with you. Walter was going off about the precious thing that he lost and how he used the portal to the alternate reality to get it.
That precious thing was Peter.

[ghost]

Heres how it went down...

Peter died of this awful disease. Walter went to the alternate dimension to get the other Peter, at which point he mixed with the alternate dimension Walter (as this is what happens when two of the same person enter a single dimension), causing his MPD. Bringing Peter back to the shows dimension occurred at the lake, at which point the "accident" occurred. They are both saved by the observer, and live out their lives.

The dimensional theory is evidenced by the fact that alternate dimension Olivia was killed off in a car wreck before show dimension Olivia was transported to the other dimension to avoid her sharing Walter's fate.

I think that covers it. Any questions?

Okay, this is good.
This is really good. I'm going with this one, ahaha.
This would also explain why Walter remembers both the things that Peter remembers and the things that Peter doesn't, and why he mixes them up and brings up things that Peter can't recall so often.

[bm76]

Peter "Prime" died and Walter was so devastated by what happened that he went to the other Universe and abducted Peter "Parallel" to keep as his own.

my thoughts exactly. :happy15:

[Snert]

Early on in the season didn't Walter say something about how they were stuck in a car under water and the observer came and helped them out or something along those lines? That would explain the location chosenin tonight's; the lake.

Maybe Peter died, Walter couldn't live with himself, and thats what motivated him to find the observer who took alter-peter into our world. It seems to me that walter is physically unable to cross over. it would make sense that only cortexafan induced humans can cross over.

If only cortexiphan induced humans can cross over, how did Bell cross over ?

[Cathy904]

It is possible the Observer appears when there is a short distance between the worlds to "observe" who or what crosses through. Walter could have met him the first time when he built the "time machine".

It is also possible that they didn't mean to land in a lake perhaps dimensional travel in a station wagon is not the most accurate method. This is where he made the deal with the observer just like the episode showed.

I think Walter's account of the crash was as it happened, with Peter being twisted up, dead. I can't make up my mind. It's possible that, although Peter may have been ill from the Cortexiphan (another reason Walter felt so guilty about being responsible for giving his son a lethal disease), they may have had the crash at the lake which killed the original Peter. I remember Walter talking about this, at the end of "Ability". I don't know that the Observer saved them both, only Walter, at Reiden Lake. Lots of time to think about it, though. :haha: So, Walter could have hidden this universe's Peter's body, crossed over right there at Reiden Lake, and stolen alter-Peter.

Hey, I actually said alter-Peter! I don't want it to catch on, I can't keep referring to my favorite character as alter-Peter, like he doesn't belong. He does, he's just sort of, adopted into this universe. :o

[Snert]

With an infinite number of possibilities and choices in everyone's lives, whats to stop there being an infinite number of Peters (or any other character for that matter ) ? Although I doubt the writers will introduce many many versions of the same character, I believe it is still plausible that they COULD . :D For example; there could be a peter that survived hepea, died from hepea, never got hepea, didn't survive past birth, was never born, etc ctc.

I think that it would get extremely confusing if the characters starting crossing over to dimensions where they themselves never existed ..

Just my thoughts :D

[defensive]

I've been wondering if maybe the Walter we know is actually from the *other* world. His son died there, so he came to our world and stayed. But then, where is Walter Prime?

It just bothers me that there's this grave with a marker, apparently in our world (?) But no one has said, "Hey Peter, our records say you're dead." Yeah, I know there's no reason to think Walter would have the death recorded officially. But a dead child? The 1980s wasn't prehistory. You didn't bury a child in a public grave, with a marker no less, "on the sly."

Still, I think the theories stated earlier in this thread are more likely. Our Walter crossed over and brought back the other Peter, and the car crash happened during this event.

[BrassOrchid]

I've seen a couple of people in this thread say that our Walter and AlterWalter 'mixed' in some way when our Walter crossed over to get Peter and that is why he went crazy. It's an interesting thought, but the timeline for it is a bit wonky. According to the tombstone RealPeter died in 1985. Walter was in St. Claire's for 17 years when he was released in 2008. That means he was first admitted in 1991. In order for the 'mixing' theory to work one of these conditions has to have occurred:
1- Walter didn't cross over to get Peter until 1990-1991, meaning Peter had been dead several years before he 'reappeared' here. (I consider this very unlikely.)
2- It took 6-7 years for Walter to go crazy. (Again, this seems unlikely. Why the delay?)
3- the date on the tombstone is wrong. (Not good storytelling if so.)

I think the two events are unrelated. Walter grabbed Peter and several years later, as the result of some other event, he went crazy and was committed. I don't think the two Walters mixed during the crossing.

Also, several people have stated that one person needs to die for the alter version of themselves to cross to their dimension. I consider this an unwarranted assumption. Nothing in the show has said this is a requirement, and it would introduce an unnecessary complication to the dimensional travel equation if it were true. It's not like the people in the alter universe are made of antimatter or something. The alter world is just like ours in almost every respect. It varies only in some of the details. Unless the show tells us that two versions cannot exist in one reality at the same time, I see no reason to assume that is true. It could even be a cool plot point in a future episode for Olivia or Charlie to discover their alter and have to watch them or capture them or something like that. :D

[nomadtw]

I've seen a couple of people in this thread say that our Walter and AlterWalter 'mixed' in some way when our Walter crossed over to get Peter and that is why he went crazy. It's an interesting thought, but the timeline for it is a bit wonky. According to the tombstone RealPeter died in 1985. Walter was in St. Claire's for 17 years when he was released in 2008. That means he was first admitted in 1991. In order for the 'mixing' theory to work one of these conditions has to have occurred:
1- Walter didn't cross over to get Peter until 1990-1991, meaning Peter had been dead several years before he 'reappeared' here. (I consider this very unlikely.)
2- It took 6-7 years for Walter to go crazy. (Again, this seems unlikely. Why the delay?)
3- the date on the tombstone is wrong. (Not good storytelling if so.)

I think the two events are unrelated. Walter grabbed Peter and several years later, as the result of some other event, he went crazy and was committed. I don't think the two Walters mixed during the crossing.

Also, several people have stated that one person needs to die for the alter version of themselves to cross to their dimension. I consider this an unwarranted assumption. Nothing in the show has said this is a requirement, and it would introduce an unnecessary complication to the dimensional travel equation if it were true. It's not like the people in the alter universe are made of antimatter or something. The alter world is just like ours in almost every respect. It varies only in some of the details. Unless the show tells us that two versions cannot exist in one reality at the same time, I see no reason to assume that is true. It could even be a cool plot point in a future episode for Olivia or Charlie to discover their alter and have to watch them or capture them or something like that. :D
it might not have taken 6 years for walter to go crazy...
it might've just taken 6 years for him to be put in the institution... this is quite possible

[Matthew]

With an infinite number of possibilities and choices in everyone's lives, whats to stop there being an infinite number of Peters (or any other character for that matter ) ? Although I doubt the writers will introduce many many versions of the same character, I believe it is still plausible that they COULD . :D For example; there could be a peter that survived hepea, died from hepea, never got hepea, didn't survive past birth, was never born, etc ctc.

I think that it would get extremely confusing if the characters starting crossing over to dimensions where they themselves never existed ..

Just my thoughts :DI think we have been shown this other universe because it is the one our universe is closest too. It is the one from which Walter stole Peter, and it is the one that there are many different places from which we can cross over to. I don't think (and I sure hope) that we will see thousands of universes and thousands of Peters. It just would enter the realm of jumping the shark. And it's way too early for this show to do that.

[Elliot]

What's say we call the Peter that died "Bob" or something...
LOL. Or "Pete-Bob".

we can posit that alter-Walter was really at Sainte-Claire's and not only a figment in Walter's mind, making sure our Walter gets the punishment he deserves because he robbed him of his son.
Xeen
I like the emotion in that, but alter-Walter never even mentions Peter, not even in the lab notes (where suppsedly, and I am not sure of it myself, the typing in all caps is by a-Walter). He's completely focused on something besides Peter.



It just bothers me that there's this grave with a marker, apparently in our world (?) But no one has said, "Hey Peter, our records say you're dead." Yeah, I know there's no reason to think Walter would have the death recorded officially. But a dead child? The 1980s wasn't prehistory. You didn't bury a child in a public grave, with a marker no less, "on the sly."

ITA. Somebody cut the stone, somebody placed it, the cemetary was maintained, somebody buried the coffin. Heck by that time most states mandated embalming for all burials. A body getting buried in a public cemetary would leave a paper trail.

I have a question: where does the stated idea that only those treated with cortexiphan can travel interdimensionally come from? I don't remember it being said anywhere, and as cortexiphan doesn't actually exist there is no scientific idea for it to be tied to. Where for that matter does the idea come from that cortexiphan has anything to do with interdimensional travel?

[Arctic Fox]

I've been wanting to visit this thread for sooo long, but I stopped myself until I'd actually seen the finale :P But I'm glad I did! Great ideas guys; some of the theories floating round in here are awesome.

[scottishlass]

This is my first post and have to explain firstly, that I am primarily a Lost fan and mostly frequent there, but having watched Fringe from the start, I think that it is an excellent programme too and until recently not too confusing. I find some of the theories at lostpedia very difficult to mind-wrap but I try my best :D. Now that I have registered here, I feel like my mind is going to blow up!!! All these alternate people and realties really confuse me.

Anyway, on to the question at hand. (and going by what I have read recently quite a simple one :) )

Is it because it is not the real kid Peter that is here as to why he doesn't call Walter dad, but calls him Walter most of the time? It has always confused me from the start - I'm like "why does he always call him Walter, thats strange".

:greet015:

[BrassOrchid]

This is my first post and have to explain firstly, that I am primarily a Lost fan and mostly frequent there, but having watched Fringe from the start, I think that it is an excellent programme too and until recently not too confusing. I find some of the theories at lostpedia very difficult to mind-wrap but I try my best :D. Now that I have registered here, I feel like my mind is going to blow up!!! All these alternate people and realties really confuse me.

Anyway, on to the question at hand. (and going by what I have read recently quite a simple one :) )

Is it because it is not the real kid Peter that is here as to why he doesn't call Walter dad, but calls him Walter most of the time? It has always confused me from the start - I'm like "why does he always call him Walter, thats strange".

:greet015:

Welcome to the boards! :)

I don't think our Peter is aware of everything we are aware of (his death and Walter's snatching his alternate and all that) so I think he calls him Walter because of the emotional distance he and his dad have had for so long.

[Overlook]

Well, in regards of all the interesting clues leading to the actual co-existence between Peter and Walter Bishop, whether from our universe or from the alterverse, I think things are very simple. Here is a very enlightening post I found on EW TV Fringe Blog section (http://watching-tv.ew.com/2009/05/fringe-season-f.html) , and I have to say I quite agree:

I don't think Walter's reaction to Peter's death would be to find a way to "kidnap" Alternate Peter and take him from Alternate Walter. Walter is not a cruel man and he would not inflict on his alternate self the kind of pain that he himself was experiencing as a result of losing Peter. A more likely scenario: in our reality's version of the previously mentioned car accident Walter survived and Peter died, while in the other universe Alternate Walter died and Alternate Peter survived. Walter's grief over Peter's death - as well as his concern for the well-being of a now fatherless Alternate Peter - drove him to find a way to retrieve Alternate Peter and raise him as his own son. Walter is still deeply troubled, however, by the identifiable differences between Peter and Alternate Peter that regularly underscore the fact that this Peter is not "his" Peter. He continues to grieve over the loss of "his" Peter -- even as he takes comfort from his relationship with Alternate Peter.

What do you think? Remember that the alterverse is a slightly altered version of our universe and that its key events are obviously a reverse or mirror image of ours: JFK is still alive (and speaking as former US President), Obama moves into new WH for the former one must have been destroyed during their 9/11, while their WTC Towers are stil standing, Wall Street is closed because their financial crisis is way worst than ours, hence the riots in lockdown Boston, etc. Thus it is highly plausible and logical that in the alterverse, alter Walter Bishop died in the car crash while alter Peter Bishop survived and was brought to our world by a grieving Walter!:happy15:

[GodlyGibbon]

All this is giving me Deja Vu from Donnie Darko lol
I think I would LIKE for it to be that you have to die to pass into the other universe, but the evidence that Olivia was able to several times kind of hurts that theory, although maybe Cortexiphan has something to do with that. I'm new so my brains capacity to take in information is overloading with all this now:ninja:

[BrassOrchid]

Well, in regards of all the interesting clues leading to the actual co-existence between Peter and Walter Bishop, whether from our universe or from the alterverse, I think things are very simple. Here is a very enlightening post I found on EW TV Fringe Blog section (http://watching-tv.ew.com/2009/05/fringe-season-f.html) , and I have to say I quite agree:


What do you think? Remember that the alterverse is a slightly altered version of ours and that its key events are obviously a reverse or mirror image of ours: JFK is still alive (and speaking as former US President), Obama moves into new WH for the former one must have been destroyed during their 9/11, while their WTC Towers are stil standing, Wall Street is closed because their financial crisis is way worst than ours, hence the riots on lockdown Boston, etc. Thus it is highly plausible and logical that in the alterverse, alter Walter Bishop died in the car crash while alter Peter Bishop survived and was brought to our world by Peter!:happy15:


I like this theory much more than our Walter stealing alterPeter! It fits what we know so far, though of course next season may show us something completely unexpected and make any theory we have now unworkable! :ninja:

[Seeker]

Sounds like a better theory to me too!

[Slick Foxx]

i think this all has to do with something that peter was talking to olivia about in the early episodes, i dont remember what it was but, he said something like "i know you found out peters secret or something about peter, and she said no i didnt find anything out!
anyone remember that?

[lml512]

whoa~Peter is died@@
i havent watch the e20
i am trying to finish all the season 1 right now!
JJ !!

[Citizen]

i think this all has to do with something that peter was talking to olivia about in the early episodes, i dont remember what it was but, he said something like "i know you found out peters secret or something about peter, and she said no i didnt find anything out!
anyone remember that?
Yes, he asked Olivia if she knew about Peter's medical history. Right after the finale, I pieced together that he was just making sure they didn't know about that Peter being from an alternate universe, which he might have considered after working for the Fringe Division and meeting Broyles. It all made sense in the end.

[Ellie]

It's kind of weird though. Would they have managed to keep that quiet about their son's death?
He seemed to have a proper grave and everything, I mean he wasn't hastily buried in their backgarden...

[Citizen]

That is a bit weird, I'm stuck and I can't come up with any explanations.

[lezario]

It's kind of weird though. Would they have managed to keep that quiet about their son's death?
He seemed to have a proper grave and everything, I mean he wasn't hastily buried in their backgarden...

I think, if Peter died of Hepea, that Walter and his wife took their son back at home, against medical advice.
If he died at home, they could have buried him, anonymous burial is possible. Walter brought back alter-Peter into our reality, then he brought him to the hospital, and everyone thought he was fine.

[Elliot]

Or, Walter took his dead son across to the other side, before his wife knew her son was dead, made the exchange, came back with Peter, and had a stone cut and set privately. That tombstone we saw did not look like it was in the Bishop family plot, but in a private cemetary--it seemed to be on a hill, the Bishop plot looked like it was if anything low, in a hollow. Easier not to have to convince Peter's mama to cover up things if she doesn't know there's anything to cover up.
Plus, there's the Shakespearean scene of the distraught father going mad at his son dying in his arms and doing something he wouldn't normally do (steal someone else's child).

[Blue Sunflower]

Or, Walter took his dead son across to the other side, before his wife knew her son was dead, made the exchange, came back with Peter, and had a stone cut and set privately.
That's what I'm guessing, since Walter told Peter he just suddenly got better. "It was a miracle." No one knows Peter died and that Walter stole Alter-Peter to replace him. I do like the idea of the crash being the cover-up for the crossing though.

I'm kinda interested in *how* Peter died, especially if it was due to the illness. Walter said they never really figured out what it was, only that it was like that bird flu, Hepea. At any rate, it seems to be a rather rare (not to mention odd) disease, and I find it curious that Peter *is* the child of someone who mucks around with biochemicals. I'm wondering if either Peter accidentally contracted it through Walter's experiments, or if he was intentionally infected by someone Walter worked with.

[Casey 25]

I'm new to this site but a fan of both Fringe & Lost. I read several comments wondering how Walter could hide Peter's death. If he had taken Peter to another part of the country for treatment or for a milder climate in hopes of him improving and the boy died there, Walter could have had a local funeral home call one around Boston and arranged to have the body shipped there. As long as there was a death certificate signed by a physician no one would question him bringing the boy back east for burial. If he & Peter's mom didn't tell any one in Boston that he died, and there was no service, the burial would be done with no questions.

As a teen I worked in a local government offices we would get calls wanting the name of the local funeral home because someone, usually an elderly relative, had died in another part of the country and wanted to be brought home for burial.

[Elliot]

Welcome, Casey_25. That's a good point. And Blue Sunflower, that is also a good point about Walter's experimentations. Did something in his experiments make Peter sick?

[Casey 25]

I used to believe that Walter experiemented on his original son but now I'm not sure. If his experiments had weakened his son's immune system or caused his death and he went so far as to abduct another version of his son, why would he risk experimenting on the alt Peter? The Peter we know, alt Peter, remembers his father shocking him using a car battery; its one of the few times he has mentioned childhood memories, until the pancake speech in the season finale. I now think Walter didn't experiment on his original son but after the boy died, and the new version wasn't an exact duplicate of the first, his scientific curiosity overcame his scruples, if he had any back then, and he started experimenting to see how this child was different from his own. I wonder if his original son was a genius or if he unknowingly stole a gifted child and got more than he bargained for.

[Elliot]

I used to believe that Walter experiemented on his original son but now I'm not sure. If his experiments had weakened his son's immune system or caused his death and he went so far as to abduct another version of his son, why would he risk experimenting on the alt Peter? The Peter we know, alt Peter, remembers his father shocking him using a car battery; its one of the few times he has mentioned childhood memories, until the pancake speech in the season finale. I now think Walter didn't experiment on his original son but after the boy died, and the new version wasn't an exact duplicate of the first, his scientific curiosity overcame his scruples, if he had any back then, and he started experimenting to see how this child was different from his own. I wonder if his original son was a genius or if he unknowingly stole a gifted child and got more than he bargained for.
http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr258/rareplan/xilu_tickets_1.jpg
Very good points! I have been trying to decide that myself, which one was experimented on--and also wondering if both Walters did, which would be another reason Peter doesn't realize he's a changeling. But "scientific curiosity overcame his scruples" is such an exact way of saying what all the scientists in the show have done, that I believe you are right.

[Casey 25]

I'm also curious about Walter's wife. Does anyone recall any mention of Walter & his wife being divorced? They were married when he was committed to the mental hospital but I can't recall if she divorced him after this happened. She had to know when Walter brought this Peter from the alt reality. From Walter's comments, its clear they were estranged for a long time before his committment. Was this caused by him bringing Peter from this other world or, more likely, by his experimentation on the boy? Thoughts?

[Blue Sunflower]

I now think Walter didn't experiment on his original son but after the boy died, and the new version wasn't an exact duplicate of the first, his scientific curiosity overcame his scruples, if he had any back then, and he started experimenting to see how this child was different from his own.
Aside from Walter's curiosity, I also think it's highly probably tests were done on AU Peter because of adaptation issues. Perhaps living outside one's normal reality isn't as problem-free as Walter would hope. In addition, it's also possible Walter wanted to know AU Peter's limits for the upcoming war. It might be important to know what AU Peter is capable of.

[lezario]

I'm also curious about Walter's wife. Does anyone recall any mention of Walter & his wife being divorced? They were married when he was committed to the mental hospital but I can't recall if she divorced him after this happened. She had to know when Walter brought this Peter from the alt reality. From Walter's comments, its clear they were estranged for a long time before his committment. Was this caused by him bringing Peter from this other world or, more likely, by his experimentation on the boy? Thoughts?

I believe Peter's mom knew about this, as did Bell and Nina.
They didn't not mentionned if they were separated or if she's dead, but i believe in the second option.

I think Walter's wife did notice that Peter wasn't the same. Either she knew what Walter had done, and told him she couldn't do it anymore because he was different from the original Peter, or she didn't know about Walter bringing an alter-Peter, and asked for divorce because of Walter experimenting on Peter to "accumulate DeadPeter data" in Peter's mind.

See Elliot's thread about reanimation (http://fringe-forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3385) for my complete theory.

That's weird actually, because we don't even know Peter's mom/Walter's wife 's name !
We're just calling her Peter's mom. :haha:

[Elliot]

I believe Peter's mom knew about this, as did Bell and Nina.

About there being something different, or DIFFERENT?


They didn't not mentionned if they were separated or if she's dead, but i believe in the second option.

I think Walter's wife did notice that Peter wasn't the same. Either she knew what Walter had done, and told him she couldn't do it anymore because he was different from the original Peter, or she didn't know about Walter bringing an alter-Peter, and asked for divorce because of Walter experimenting on Peter to "accumulate DeadPeter data" in Peter's mind.

See Elliot's thread about reanimation (http://fringe-forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3385) for my complete theory.

That's weird actually, because we don't even know Peter's mom/Walter's wife 's name !
We're just calling her Peter's mom. :haha:
-------she'd have sued for, and gotten, custody of Peter if that had been the case. So she didn't know about that part. It might have taken place at the lab, where likely Mrs. Peter's Mother Walter's Wife Bishop didn't go very often.

I still think she's alive; not just because the lack of mourning on Peter's part when he talks about her to Olivia, but also because of the fireworks and emotional outbursts between her and Walter when we see them together finally, and of hoping for a really amazing actress to be chosen to play her. I want to see her size up Olivia, and feel reassured at Peter having Olivia in his life.

[lezario]

About there being something different, or DIFFERENT?
DIFFERENT.



-------she'd have sued for, and gotten, custody of Peter if that had been the case. So she didn't know about that part. It might have taken place at the lab, where likely Mrs. Peter's Mother Walter's Wife Bishop didn't go very often.

I still think she's alive; not just because the lack of mourning on Peter's part when he talks about her to Olivia, but also because of the fireworks and emotional outbursts between her and Walter when we see them together finally, and of hoping for a really amazing actress to be chosen to play her. I want to see her size up Olivia, and feel reassured at Peter having Olivia in his life.

Maybe they divorced when Walter was in the mental hospital, she had Peter.
In the lab, yeah, it could be how Bell learned about it.

It would be good to see her, but I think she's dead, I don't know why.

[Elliot]

DIFFERENT.
Maybe they divorced when Walter was in the mental hospital, she had Peter.
In the lab, yeah, it could be how Bell learned about it.

That makes sense for a divorce. And just imagine Bell walking in on Walter performing synaptic transfer from live to dead son. . .

[lezario]

http://img1.uplood.fr/free/s3mr_tickets3.jpg

"Hey, Walter, what are you..... Oh god. Is that Peter ?"

[Elliot]

You just gave me cold shivers. Quite the scene.

And then the memory reawakened, in Peter, of that being done. . .

[lezario]

And here we go,

Peter : How could do that to me ?
Walter : Pete...
Peter : No ! You Shut up !
Olivia : What's happening ?
Peter : Ask him what he did ! I'm sorry but I can't stay here with him !
Peter leaves.

And Olivia finds Peter in a bar....

[Elliot]

And here we go,

Peter : How could do that to me ?
Walter : Pete...
Peter : No ! You Shut up !
Olivia : What's happening ?
Peter : Ask him what he did ! I'm sorry but I can't stay here with him !
Peter leaves.

And Olivia finds Peter in a bar....
And she would be the only one who could help him through that, not only be the only person he could tell.

Perhaps Bell reminded Walter of a photo of the lab that night just before Walter got carted off to St. Clares'? It would be worth anything one could ask, to keep one's child from finding out what you'd done.

[Cathy904]

(throwing in her two cents) The only reason I think Mom's dead is when Peter was trying to brush her off in the Pilot with, "We all have someone who's dying", when she was trying to get his sympathy with her dying boyfriend, *cough*, collegue.

[lezario]

(throwing in her two cents) The only reason I think Mom's dead is when Peter was trying to brush her off in the Pilot with, "We all have someone who's dying", when she was trying to get his sympathy with her dying boyfriend, *cough*, collegue.

This and also in the Ghost Network, when Olivia asks him where is her mother now, he says "that's a story from another time".

And the way he said it, make me think his mom died. Or is dying maybe.

[Elliot]

This and also in the Ghost Network, when Olivia asks him where is her mother now, he says "that's a story from another time".

And the way he said it, make me think his mom died. Or is dying maybe.
But he LAUGHS, and says that is a story for another time. I think he thought she was a bit crazy, had mixed up ideas, and was far away. I'm imagining she knew, or figured out, something was new or different about him, and couldn't let up about it, and she left town when both Walter and Peter told her he was fine. And she would be too valuable a resource, a trump card if you will, for Bad Robot to just write out before using.

[lezario]

But he LAUGHS, and says that is a story for another time. I think he thought she was a bit crazy, had mixed up ideas, and was far away. I'm imagining she knew, or figured out, something was new or different about him, and couldn't let up about it, and she left town when both Walter and Peter told her he was fine. And she would be too valuable a resource, a trump card if you will, for Bad Robot to just write out before using.

Like you said, Fringe is a Rorschach test, everyone sees it differently.

[Xeen]

I think she's dead, I don't know why.

i'm pretty confident that she's not. hence the photograph at the beach house.
Xeen

[lezario]

Do you mean we could have recognized her if we had seen the picture ?

Maybe we gonna meet her and have no idea of who she really is...

[trippingonclouds]

i'm pretty confident that she's not. hence the photograph at the beach house.
Xeen

Agreed. It seems to me that if somebody was dead, and you had an old photo of them when they were happy, you'd want to see them one last time. But Peter didn't brush the dust off her face.

[lezario]

oh, so it is the dust brushing..... hm.... but why did he brush the dust off of Walter then ? :P

[Casey 25]

Count me as one of the posters who thinks Peter's mom is alive. Last winter, I saw a link to the original pilot script for Fringe. There were some changes between that script and the pilot that was filmed. One think I remember is, in the script, Peter said something negative about Walter and then said if his mother was alive, she would cry but would agree with him. That line was deleted when the pilot was filmed. I think this was done because the writers intend to bring Peter's mother in to the story at some point in the future. She either loved Walter deeply or feared him because, Peter said the only peaceful time in their home occurred after Walter was sent to St. Claire's, suggesting his parents were still together when the accident happened at the lab. If they weren't happy, she may have stayed because she knew about Peter and was afriad of losing her son again if his true origins were revealed. She might have helped/encouraged Walter take him from the alt universe.

[lezario]

But if they deleted the line, it's maybe for us not to know if she's dead or not ?
In the script, Olivia knew about Peter's medical history, and like said in the script, you could see on her face it was something rather scary.

And the scene where Peter refuses to sign something, that was originally in the pilot, ended up in the second episode.

[GoodPeter]

I could have sworn that Walter said at some point "after your mother died. . ."
But on Fringe, dead does not necessarily mean dead! Must go re-watch season 1 Fringe episodes.

[lezario]

I could have sworn that Walter said at some point "after your mother died. . ."
But on Fringe, dead does not necessarily mean dead! Must go re-watch season 1 Fringe episodes.

hm.. interesting. :confused0006: Need to re-watch every episodes.... :D

[47Olive]

I think that if she had died, they would have said it. However,if she IS dead, some extraordinary circumstances may have surrounded her death, and that's why they don't say much about it. I think she's out there somewhere, but not well :confused0006: Have to re-watch it too! :P

[Blue Sunflower]

(throwing in her two cents) The only reason I think Mom's dead is when Peter was trying to brush her off in the Pilot with, "We all have someone who's dying", when she was trying to get his sympathy with her dying boyfriend, *cough*, collegue.

Personally, I get the feeling that she's been "put away" kinda like Walter was. That there's something wrong with her, like Alzheimers, or she's in a coma or something.

Having said that, I'm not opposed to the idea that she's dead in *this* reality, but not dead in the other one (Peter's original reality), and that's why we haven't seen her - because she hasn't yet been cast since that particular storyline hasn't come up yet.

[Montecito]

I think original Peter died and Walter brought Peter from the alternate reality to ours. Possibly the Observer did it, as a gift? to Walter.

[fringetwigs]

I think original Peter died and Walter brought Peter from the alternate reality to ours. Possibly the Observer did it, as a gift? to Walter.

I agree, I think it's the alternate Peter we are seeing. I'm sure we'll get more answers about it in season 2.

[HG80]

I agree, I think it's the alternate Peter we are seeing. I'm sure we'll get more answers about it in season 2.

I totally agree too. I think we are seeing the alternate Peter. I'm sure that when we finally see the alternate Charlie we will find out about Peter. I can't see them getting rid of Charlie so quickly.....

[FieryJack]

I think alter-Peter is too obvious for JJ Abrams.
I think we are seeing alter-Walter and original Peter. Alter-Walter escaped from his alter-reality because he refused to work for the alter-ZFT. He joined original-ZFT to help defend against the alter-invasion (triggered by overpopulation in the alter-reality).
I think a short-story is evolving here..:D

[QueenBee]

I think alter-Peter is too obvious for JJ Abrams.
I think we are seeing alter-Walter and original Peter. Alter-Walter escaped from his alter-reality because he refused to work for the alter-ZFT. He joined original-ZFT to help defend against the alter-invasion (triggered by overpopulation in the alter-reality).
I think a short-story is evolving here..:D

That wouldn't work since Rebecca saw a "glow" in Peter. She would have seen it in Walter. Nice try, though.

[FieryJack]

That wouldn't work since Rebecca saw a "glow" in Peter. She would have seen it in Walter. Nice try, though.
Woah! Rebecca saw a glow in Peter? So do I when I see something I like :D

[D-Roc]

I totally agree too. I think we are seeing the alternate Peter. I'm sure that when we finally see the alternate Charlie we will find out about Peter. I can't see them getting rid of Charlie so quickly.....
Just to clarify, it's already been confirmed (okay, very heavily suggested) that Peter is, indeed, not from over here (season 1 finale, to name just one).

:)

Although there will probably be a few twists and turns along the way.


I think alter-Peter is too obvious for JJ Abrams.
I think we are seeing alter-Walter and original Peter. Alter-Walter escaped from his alter-reality because he refused to work for the alter-ZFT. He joined original-ZFT to help defend against the alter-invasion (triggered by overpopulation in the alter-reality).
I think a short-story is evolving here..:D
I have a feeling that we'll eventually meet another Peter, but I think we're seeing alter-Peter - the 1.20 grave seems to be a marker.

Alter-Walter is more likely, imo, but that would beg the question of what happened to original Walter.

[QueenBee]

I hope they don't go down that route. It's time we found out something special about Peter.

[HappyGoLucky]

I have a feeling that we'll eventually meet another Peter, but I think we're seeing alter-Peter - the 1.20 grave seems to be a marker.

Alter-Walter is more likely, imo, but that would beg the question of what happened to original Walter.

I'm sure that Alter-Walter will have a large part in the show/ has a part in the mythology etc.
But I'm not thinking that we are going to find another Peter, because "real" peter died and "our" Peter is the alternate one *presumably* and they did say that they would only deal with 2 realities....

[okapi]

But I'm not thinking that we are going to find another Peter, because "real" peter died and "our" Peter is the alternate one *presumably* and they did say that they would only deal with 2 realities....

After the grave in There's More Than One of Everything and the glow seen by Rebecca in Momentum Deferred the writers would really have to be twisted to have Peter be from anywhere other than the AU.

[HappyGoLucky]

After the grave in There's More Than One of Everything and the glow seen by Rebecca in Momentum Deferred the writers would really have to be twisted to have Peter be from anywhere other than the AU.
yeah it would be impossible, what with all the hints they've given us.

[Jabberwock]

I think it's pretty straightforward. From what I understand, Original Peter died of Hepia, or some such thing. Walter, in his grief, crossed over into Over There, stole that world's Peter, and brought him over to raise as his own.

That's how I see it anyway.

[D-Roc]

I'm sure that Alter-Walter will have a large part in the show/ has a part in the mythology etc.
But I'm not thinking that we are going to find another Peter, because "real" peter died and "our" Peter is the alternate one *presumably* and they did say that they would only deal with 2 realities....
I hear you, I just think we'll see another Peter somewhere down the line, irrespective of what we've seen so far, or been told.:confused0006:

The show thrives on diversionary tactics - the writers know that we got so close last season that they had to expediate the alt. reality storyline. I don't think the show will soley focus on two realities (assuming they get the time to tell the story I think they're trying to tell). The Observer, for instance, might be from another part of the multiverse.

I also think we'll get to see original Peter via a flashback. And without wanting to undo what I laid out here (http://fringe-forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2686), I'm also leaving the door open for original Peter still being alive, unbeknownst to Walter - but that's speculation for another day.:hope:

You could be right. We might only ever get to see our Peter. But I think the end-game might blow several of our assumptions from the water. At least I hope so.

[HappyGoLucky]

The Observer, for instance, might be from another part of the multiverse.


I have been wondering about that!! Because they do not seem to working for the same side as the shapeshifters, and they don't seem to be from this world....Maybe we just won't be travelling to that Universe in the show for complication reasons?




But I think the end-game might blow several of our assumptions from the water. At least I hope so.

I know!! I keep getting a sneaking suspicion that they want us to believe this so that they can totally catch us offguard by that!!

[Quill]

I think it's pretty straightforward. From what I understand, Original Peter died of Hepia, or some such thing.

Yeah, I get the impression that Peter's destined to die, and pulling him into the other reality is what saved him. I suspect that unlike everyone else, there are no other Peters than the one we know and adore.

[FieryJack]

Just to clarify, it's already been confirmed (okay, very heavily suggested) that Peter is, indeed, not from over here (season 1 finale, to name just one).

:)

Aw, D-Roc don't be a spoilsport :D

OK so with the premise that Peter is alter-Peter, how is JJ going to make a megatwister out of this? And your other question was what happened to alter-Walter?

----> alter-Peter killed alter-Walter and ran off to be with original-Walter, who was naturally overjoyed, because alter-Walter had earlier stolen original-Peter for some dodgy experiments in which he died. No?

[Twisted_Sister]

Hey to all of you :-) I'm completely new here. I started reading posts here in last few days and I'm completely addicted :-)

OK I like all the theorise you mentioned above some of them more some less of curse :-)

But I couldn't help notice that nobody mentioned this kind of theory:

So most of us think and agree that both of these 2 universes are very similar so that means of course that both Walters are great scientists. So let's say that long time ago while researching lot of new theories (each Walter in his own Universe) they somehow got in contact with each other (some kind of communication like shape shifter is using to contact with his superior from another universe) and arranged that they switch places for some sort of experiment - switch themselves in alter universe. I also think that both of them took Peter(s) with them as well.
In a process of returning something went wrong ( I would say that the "doors" closed to fast ) and they couldn't successfully return to their original life’s. I would say that Walters managed successfully to switch but something went wrong with Peters and one of them (that would be original son of our Walter) wasn't able to return successfully and the other Peter - Peter that we know stayed here :-) I also think that there's nothing inside Peters grave. I think that Walter put this grave tomb only as memory on his original son who got stuck somewhere between, maybe died in a process of returning, or is living in another universe with his "alter father".
Also I believe that both car accident and Peter's illness were times when their switching accrued.

First switching happened when Peter was ill and then all of a sudden he was better of course because of a switching. I think that his illness was not fatal so he healed on the other side. And then while trying to return to their original universes lead to car accident.


So What do you think about this theory? :-)

[QueenBee]

I am currently watching the pilot and something Walter said stood out to me. He says that he had "extracted information from a corspe once after being dead for 6 hours". I can't help but think it could have been peter. Why else wouldn't Peter remember the stuff Walter tells him?

[Quill]

Why else wouldn't Peter remember the stuff Walter tells him?
Because Walter is remembering things Original Peter did, and Alter-Peter (our Peter) wouldn't know them.

It's not a matter of Peter not remembering. It's a matter of him not being there to begin with. It was Walter's original son.

[MrSuperCzar]

Welcome Twisted Sister! I like the theory!

[Mutsie]

Hey to all of you :-) I'm completely new here. I started reading posts here in last few days and I'm completely addicted :-)

OK I like all the theorise you mentioned above some of them more some less of curse :-)

But I couldn't help notice that nobody mentioned this kind of theory:

So most of us think and agree that both of these 2 universes are very similar so that means of course that both Walters are great scientists. So let's say that long time ago while researching lot of new theories (each Walter in his own Universe) they somehow got in contact with each other (some kind of communication like shape shifter is using to contact with his superior from another universe) and arranged that they switch places for some sort of experiment - switch themselves in alter universe. I also think that both of them took Peter(s) with them as well.
In a process of returning something went wrong ( I would say that the "doors" closed to fast ) and they couldn't successfully return to their original life’s. I would say that Walters managed successfully to switch but something went wrong with Peters and one of them (that would be original son of our Walter) wasn't able to return successfully and the other Peter - Peter that we know stayed here :-) I also think that there's nothing inside Peters grave. I think that Walter put this grave tomb only as memory on his original son who got stuck somewhere between, maybe died in a process of returning, or is living in another universe with his "alter father".
Also I believe that both car accident and Peter's illness were times when their switching accrued.

First switching happened when Peter was ill and then all of a sudden he was better of course because of a switching. I think that his illness was not fatal so he healed on the other side. And then while trying to return to their original universes lead to car accident.


So What do you think about this theory? :-)

Very nice theory indeed!
&
I think that Walter is still capable to Switch between the 2 worlds because the "watchers" contacted him that "it was time to leave" & how the hell to they know that he have "the plug"?

Besides when Olivia goes into the "Elevator" & the end there was a "Switch" as well.... Perhaps they do have some "channels" open where they actually still made do those "switches"...

Oh man this is just so Quantum Leap with a little Star|Trek :shiny:.....

[D-Roc]

I have been wondering about that!! Because they do not seem to working for the same side as the shapeshifters, and they don't seem to be from this world....Maybe we just won't be travelling to that Universe in the show for complication reasons?

Yeah, the Observer(s) seem to carry more authority. Despite what Colonel Gordon implied, it seems as if they have a more altruistic goal, whereas the shapeshifters don't, what with opening that gate and all - at least that's what's been implied up to now..things could certainly be turned upside down.

I'm still open to the possibility that the Observers are from the future..possibly ours, or, the converged worlds.:confused0006:


Aw, D-Roc don't be a spoilsport :D
;)


OK so with the premise that Peter is alter-Peter, how is JJ going to make a megatwister out of this? And your other question was what happened to alter-Walter?

----> alter-Peter killed alter-Walter and ran off to be with original-Walter, who was naturally overjoyed, because alter-Walter had earlier stolen original-Peter for some dodgy experiments in which he died. No?How old was alter-Peter when this happened, would you say?


I also think that there's nothing inside Peters grave.
Welcome to the boards!

I've been speculating something similar - I think it's very possible.:confused0006:

[HappyGoLucky]

Maybe Peter is not actually alter-Peter, but is actually from here. Walter is....delusional, or believes this because of what he saw on drugs or something. The grave is actually empty, and Peter doesn't remember his childhood because of experiments alter-Walter did to him.
Actually, scratch that. I like that Peter is (just:D) alt-Peter
I like the theories that Walter went insane because of guilt and his stealing Peter actually "connected" the two universes.
Wait, I'm the only one who believes those? :P

It makes it all fit together nice and simple. Which maybe gives the indication that that's not the case.....:confused0006:

[xofringe314]

It makes it all fit together nice and simple. Which maybe gives the indication that that's not the case.....:confused0006:

Yeah, it's too easy. Hopefully the writers have a twist up their sleeves.:ninja:

[D-Roc]

I like the theories that Walter went insane because of guilt and his stealing Peter actually "connected" the two universes.
Wait, I'm the only one who believes those? :P



Interesting. "Connected" in what way? Connected as in giving life to the parallel world, or from opening a gateway? :confused0006:

I believe that the worlds existed in parallel prior to Walter stealing/taking/borrowing Peter - but I don't have much evidence as of yet (aside from Nina's comment about the "soft spots"). I just feel that the world of the show will reveal itself to have played host to inter-reality travellers from way back - perhaps through time-travel, as technology may not have allowed for such transportation back then (unless we alter the way we view "science" and include other arts as being 'cutting edge' in their own right).

I'm also wondering what role Bell played in the Peters upbringing, and how he could leave Walter in the asylum for all those years (although St. Claire's could = MD). Was this part of a mutual 'agreement', or was Walter betrayed by Bell - either with the Lab fire (set-up?), or by other means..

[Montecito]

Connected as in giving life to the parallel world :confused0006:


This was interesting. You imply that the alternate realities were existed only theoretically and Walter made 1 alt reality existing?
One more advanced technologically so Peter was able to be cured and not dying in that reality?

[D-Roc]

This was interesting. You imply that the alternate realities were existed only theoretically and Walter made 1 alt reality existing?

Yeah, kinda. One possibility is that the alternate reality only came into existence once it was observed. That is, once Walter, Bell (or whoever) perceived or travelled/communicated with "over there" - thus giving birth to a world which didn't previously exist in our reality on a conscious level.:confused0006:


One more advanced technologically so Peter was able to be cured and not dying in that reality?
That's interesting in itself, because it would suggest a whole new level of manipulation and control, even.

To be able blink a world into existence by observing it is one thing. But to be able to create and shape a world so as to position the pieces in an act of benevolence, or otherwise, is an angle worthy of exploration.

[Montecito]

Yeah, kinda. One possibility is that the alternate reality only came into existence once it was observed.

And that also means that our reality is "Special" cause it was the true one. The other was created cause Walter traveled there or created it.
So the infinite realities are just theoretically.
But ofcourse these are just assumptions, we can't know for sure.
Maybe the infinite realities (and the specific reality where Walter traveled) exist no matter what.

[Point]

And that also means that our reality is "Special" cause it was the true one. The other was created cause Walter traveled there or created it.
So the infinite realities are just theoretically.
But ofcourse these are just assumptions, we can't know for sure.
Maybe the infinite realities (and the specific reality where Walter traveled) exist no matter what.

I wouldn't say "special". I mean, it's all relative. If Walter (or whoever before him) didn't travel to the alternate universe, then, technically yes, it doesn't exist for us because we haven't observed it. However, to the people in the alternate universe, we don't exist either because they didn't have anyone there who have observed our universe either. It's just that everything we observe is in our point of view, and never of another's, therefore we tend to centre things around us (our universe).

Bottom line I don't think any universe is more "special" than the others.

[xofringe314]

Maybe there's a universe from which all the other came from. Maybe that could be the "special" universe?

[D-Roc]

Maybe the infinite realities (and the specific reality where Walter traveled) exist no matter what.
I think that's possible. I guess it's about perception and the easiet way to perceive something is to see it - by travelling to the alt. world, Walter perceived it and *poof!* it existed in his consciousness. Once the doorway is opened, it may be difficult to close, so whoever perceived the parallel reality may have opened it for people on both sides.

As for the "true reality" - perhaps no-one has glimpsed it yet. Although I get the sense that the show and its frequent references to "dreams" (3 episode titles already) is heading in that direction.


I wouldn't say "special". I mean, it's all relative. If Walter (or whoever before him) didn't travel to the alternate universe, then, technically yes, it doesn't exist for us because we haven't observed it. However, to the people in the alternate universe, we don't exist either because they didn't have anyone there who have observed our universe either. It's just that everything we observe is in our point of view, and never of another's, therefore we tend to centre things around us (our universe).

I tend to agree.


Maybe there's a universe from which all the other came from. Maybe that could be the "special" universe?
God, maybe? I'm interesting to see where Fringe puts the benevolent creator in the grand scheme of things.