'He's not dead'

[leeree]

I was just wondering if anyone caught the gravestone that said 'HE'S NOT DEAD' when Olivia and John are talking to each others minds. (Screenies would be appreciated!)

Since Olivia's shouting 'John!'
...I thought it might mean something for LOST, since John dies at the end of season four...
But that seems pretty far-fetched. Any ideas to what this means...?

[BLBass]

I do believe they are actually talk about detective John Scott. The one who they were fighting to save through the whole pilot. I have heard rumours about him not being dead.

[leeree]

Ah, yes, you're probably right. But because JJ. Abrams is JJ. Abrams... the possibility couldn't go unspoken, you agree?
Are you referring to Locke or Scott about 'not being dead'?

[BLBass]

John Scott


You're right too, it's always valid to bring up unobvious connections, but I don't think they would cross the realsm, maybe but not yet at least.

[Suilenroc]

Was I the only one who was really hoping that it would be an Oceanic plane in the beginning?

[MrMister]

It would have been far too hokey if it had been an Oceanic flight. In my opinion it is already almost crossing the lines with LOST references.

I would, however, like to say that the Oceanic plane crash (once restructured in it's entirety) was cinematically superior to the plane crash which kicked off Fringe.

[D-Roc]

I was just wondering if anyone caught the gravestone that said 'HE'S NOT DEAD' when Olivia and John are talking to each others minds. (Screenies would be appreciated!)

Since Olivia's shouting 'John!'
...I thought it might mean something for LOST, since John dies at the end of season four...
But that seems pretty far-fetched. Any ideas to what this means...?
I agree with BL, but you never know with JJ Abrams, it could be a convenient reference.

Btw, great work on spotting the "HE's NOT DEAD" on the gravestone, I completely missed that - I'm going to go back now and check:cheers9:


Was I the only one who was really hoping that it would be an Oceanic plane in the beginning?
Haha, that would have been an awesome cross-over, but perhaps a little too in your face. JJ. seems to prefer the subtle references or the power of inference. But it would have really set LOST and Fringe tongues wagging had it been an Oceanic airliner!


It would have been far too hokey if it had been an Oceanic flight. In my opinion it is already almost crossing the lines with LOST references.
I agree, I noticed several Lostesque references/similarities in the pilot. Which is a good thing, imo.


I would, however, like to say that the Oceanic plane crash (once restructured in it's entirety) was cinematically superior to the plane crash which kicked off Fringe.Agreed, it would take some to beat that, it was a thing of beauty despite it being a situation of utter terror. To think that was 4 or years ago now, and still nothing (imo) has cinematically surpassed that.

[D-Roc]

Btw, here's a screencap of the grave stone with "he's not dead" etched into it (it's not that clear but you can just about make it out):
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So I'm thinking, does this mean that Olivia gained the power of 'foresight' during the synaptic transfer, without even knowing that Massive Dynamics would 'reanimate' John after he (really) died!?? It's as if John's subconscious (and consequently her own subconscious, since they were in a shared dream state) was telling her that this would happen. If so, they've already sneaked precognition into their series of 'fringe science' explorations. Is this also why she was surrounded by scrapped cars in her dream state -did this foreshadow what would happen to John later on (i.e. the car crash)?
172

Or perhaps the "he's not dead" was simply to reflect her own faith (or refusal to let go) that he would be able to pull through the translucent body melting thing (sorry, I didn't catch the technical term for it)?

[leeree]

It's not clear, which is why I brought up the 'Locke' thing... no one in Fringe had died yet, and what other John could they refer to? I see no reason to tell people Smith wasn't dead, when they haven't even 'killed' him yet.

It's possible that they were foreshadowing. But if they did mean that Smith wasn't dead, that raises some questions...

"Did Smith fake his own death, if so, why?"
"Was it really Smith, or a clone of Smith, or a Smith poser?"
"Did he reanimate?"

P.S. Thanks for the screenies!


Was I the only one who was really hoping that it would be an Oceanic plane in the beginning?
Erm, we are discussing something else in this thread. Please put other theories/comments in your own thread.

[Suilenroc]

It's not clear, which is why I brought up the 'Locke' thing... no one in Fringe had died yet, and what other John could they refer to? I see no reason to tell people Smith wasn't dead, when they haven't even 'killed' him yet.

It's possible that they were foreshadowing. But if they did mean that Smith wasn't dead, that raises some questions...

"Did Smith fake his own death, if so, why?"
"Was it really Smith, or a clone of Smith, or a Smith poser?"

P.S. Thanks for the screenies!


Erm, we are discussing something else in this thread. Please put other theories/comments in your own thread.

I'm sorry if any offense was taken. I simply thought that it was a relevant idea, considering that the Original Post discussed the possibility of a "Lost" crossover. Also, due to it's brevity, I would be unwarranted in posting a new thread for it.

[leeree]

Ah, no offense was taken. I thought you just wanted to spam my thread. It's more about Fringe than LOST, the thought about Locke was just a baseless theory.

That was off-topic. Sorry!

[cdesperado]

Here's a screen cap of the "Not Dead" gravestone.... I lightened the highlighted area to make it more visible, but made no other changes to the image.

[Caladonia]

The writing on the gravestone might come into importance later in the the series, like when Olivia dsicovers that John actually isn't dead (or, well, dead as we know it lol).

[D-Roc]

I've been watching this scene again, and I don't think we've been thorough enough - there's some audio as the kayak falls from the sky (possibly a message..Olivia's uncle telling her something?), and the laughter of children can also be heard immediately afterwards - possibly alluding to Olivia's own child (speculation)??

[queenbeesteph]

Well, its obvious that JJ Abrams has his hand in both shows (Lost and Fringe). It seems that we will probably always see little similarities--> authors have things that interest them and a style and it comes through in their writings, from Stephen King to Jane Austen. Even as our Administrator pointed out just now - there are sounds in the background of the L-dream which remind me of the whispers in Lost. I think everyone will just have to resign themselves to this fact and not get angry about it! It will make for better discussion! I agree with D-Roc that there is probably more to that dream then we realize. There is probably lots in there that is not obvious at first blush! Good catch on the "he's not dead" tombstone. At the time of the dream John Scott was indeed not dead, so was it a glimpse into the future? I like D-Roc's idea of the tombstone.



So I'm thinking, does this mean that Olivia gained the power of 'foresight' during the synaptic transfer, without even knowing that Massive Dynamics would 'reanimate' John after he (really) died!?? It's as if John's subconscious (and consequently her own subconscious, since they were in a shared dream state) was telling her that this would happen. If so, they've already sneaked precognition into their series of 'fringe science' explorations. Is this also why she was surrounded by scrapped cars in her dream state -did this foreshadow what would happen to John later on (i.e. the car crash)?

[D-Roc]

Thanks for your thoughts QBS!

I agree, most authors have their trademark signatures, if you will. When it comes to JJ he obviously taps into something that many genre fans like. I think the challenge for him will be to keep tapping into what makes his sotry-telling interesting and unique, whilst also evolving and pushing the curve. This is also where the other creators - Orci, Kurtzman and Pinkner (and co) come in, as their ideas will no doubt mesh with JJ's to create new trends in story-telling.

[Rekka]

What if it's referring to something else that doesn't occur until later down the road...?

Like perhaps Peter inbetween Seasons 3 & 4??

[FoolsErrand]

Maybe it is foreshadowing Olivia's ability to not only access his memories, but interact with him while she's in the tank in later episodes?