"..Mosquitos Trapped In Amber" - Another Clone Reference?

[D-Roc]

There have been several clone references in Fringe so far - many of them pertaining to Walter and his son, Peter. I think we may have had yet another hint towards cloning being a major part of one of the current/future storylines in the show.

When Walter first got a good look at the bus with all of the victims paralized in the substance, he utters this line:

"It's horrible..they're like Mosquitos trapped in amber".

http://www.fringe-forum.com/forums/images/img/103_bus.jpg

I think this was a major shout out to the movie Jurassic Park, where the blood from a mosquito trapped in amber is used to recreate - or clone - Dinosaurs.

Now check this - in this episode (Ghost Network) we have a disk that is hidden (trapped) in the blood/hand of the DEA agent..this disk turns out to be one of the keys to unlocking the encryption to the deceased 'John Scott' (as seen in the final scene of the episode)..that is, to reanimating (not far removed from cloning) John Scott. At leasts, that's my assumption.

I think that's a pretty clever parallel (on the part of the creators)..if true.

Any thoughts, either for or against?:shiny:

[Ajax]

I agree 100%. "Mosquitos in amber" reminded me immediately of Jurassic Park and the cloning.

[Deknor]

It is most definately a cloning reference.

I do not believe they're trying to reanimate John Scott.. Though its possible. I don't think they'd need a decryption for this though. Why would they need to decrypt his brainwaves into information just to reanimate him?? As long as they can keep from having substantial brain damage, they should be able to reanimate him without any knowledge of whats in his brain. (They'd also need to preserve his body and organs.)

I think they needed that disc to decrypt the information in his brain. Walter said it was possible, but he never said that he and Bellie (William Bell) figured out how to do it. He certainly never gave mention that the information would be easy to gather.

The screen with John's name on it says transferring data.

We assume at the end of the first episode that they already "questioned" him, but we're never really given the information to conclude that they did. We assume that Nina had information regarding Olivia and John Scott's personal relationship because of the "questioning", but we also now know that Nina knows more about Olivia than we've been shown.

Perhaps the "questioning" has not occurred yet, and will provide much more insight to Olivia's character and her relationship to the Pattern. (This is assuming that John Scott had a relationship to the pattern.)

Also what about the Steig's? Are we assuming that these are seperate incidents? We know they are pattern related, all of them. So why could they not have been working with the same people who set off the silicon based gas?

[Wondermind]

Deknor: True! The decryption process is a totally separate process from the actual reanimation process. You do not need one in order to achieve the other.

D-Roc: I also got the Jurrasic reference. But I’m not sure if it was intentional or merely coincidental on the part of the writers. Coincidental in that they put the refference in there but only as a playful wink to the movie. Yes the link can be made but I am not sure if it directly gives a clue to the Fringe storyline. Often, TV shows gives reference to others without it being in direct influence of the main show. We as humans make reference to things in our day to day lives without it having any real bearing or shaping of our actions.

Deknor: there most certainly is overlap of responsibilities here. To what degree each participant has is yet to be determined. As I had stated in the “Things just gota a lot more interesting…” thread, Nina and Phillip are both players in a chess game each trying to do their part to achieve the same objective. So it would stand to reason that other players are doing the same.

This is a good example of what Walter was referencing as the “Gestalt effect”. You know,.. the illusion in where our brain perceives one thing but is fooled into seeing something else, as in the case of the duck and the rabbit. How we perceive the pattern and the players involved is based on how our brains interpret and process the data. Your account about the Stiege is in my opinion a good one since it touches on what I had picked up on as Walter alluded to the Gestalt effect as “random meaningless input into a logical pattern”. I feel that there is a connection and how they are linked will be revealed soon enough.

D-Roc: This is a good thread …very thought provoking. Keep up the good work.:tiphat:

[Dill0n]

speaking of being stuck in amber ...

what was the additional similar cases broyles handed over to olivia? you see a picture of a black car (limo?) with the rear door open and a body encased inside wearing a suit or trench coat. there looks to be a cemetery and church in the background ... you can see a monument/headstone mixed in with the trees on the hillside, and the archway above the window in the stone wall says "YUGOSLAV SKYCH".

[D-Roc]

It is most definately a cloning reference.

I do not believe they're trying to reanimate John Scott.. Though its possible. I don't think they'd need a decryption for this though. Why would they need to decrypt his brainwaves into information just to reanimate him?? As long as they can keep from having substantial brain damage, they should be able to reanimate him without any knowledge of whats in his brain. (They'd also need to preserve his body and organs.)

I think they needed that disc to decrypt the information in his brain. Walter said it was possible, but he never said that he and Bellie (William Bell) figured out how to do it. He certainly never gave mention that the information would be easy to gather.

The screen with John's name on it says transferring data.

We assume at the end of the first episode that they already "questioned" him, but we're never really given the information to conclude that they did. We assume that Nina had information regarding Olivia and John Scott's personal relationship because of the "questioning", but we also now know that Nina knows more about Olivia than we've been shown.

Perhaps the "questioning" has not occurred yet, and will provide much more insight to Olivia's character and her relationship to the Pattern. (This is assuming that John Scott had a relationship to the pattern.)
Yeah, perhaps not reanimation, I guess I threw that one in there because it's closer to the 'cloning/jurassic park' reference. I suppose the disk being the 'key' to 'unlocking' something which has died is the most important thing they're alluding to with Walter's line about the amber.

I do think that the questioning has occured, as indicated at the end of the pilot episode, although perhaps they found him more unwilling to divulge information than they had hoped/expected? It could be that they are now forcibly hacking their way into his memories in order to extract information - perhaps information on Olivia (Nina seems very interested in her) that JS wasn't willing to give up during questioning. Or perhaps they ran out of time during the 1 hour window that they had to question him?

Also what about the Steig's? Are we assuming that these are seperate incidents? We know they are pattern related, all of them. So why could they not have been working with the same people who set off the silicon based gas?Interesting. I agree that we shouldn't forget about these two. Also, Broyles mentioned the 'pattern' being a "co-ordinated effort", so I guess there are several groups collaborating with using the pattern. The Steig's (certainly Richard, as I still don't believe that Morgan was working with his brother on the 627 incident) could be a part of a collective effort.

Deknor: True! The decryption process is a totally separate process from the actual reanimation process. You do not need one in order to achieve the other.

D-Roc: I also got the Jurrasic reference. But I’m not sure if it was intentional or merely coincidental on the part of the writers. Coincidental in that they put the refference in there but only as a playful wink to the movie. Yes the link can be made but I am not sure if it directly gives a clue to the Fringe storyline. Often, TV shows gives reference to others without it being in direct influence of the main show. We as humans make reference to things in our day to day lives without it having any real bearing or shaping of our actions.
Ah, good point. Often we fans read too much into things or make connections that were not explicitly intended. I would like to think that they were alluding to JP/cloning, but I love to line and the way it was delivered by John Noble nonetheless. For me that's part of the fun, right or wrong I find it useful to make connections, especially if they just come to me without any forced effort. I also agree that it may just have been a hat-tipping session..paying it forward to their pop culture inspirations.


This is a good example of what Walter was referencing as the “Gestalt effect”. You know,.. the illusion in where our brain perceives one thing but is fooled into seeing something else, as in the case of the duck and the rabbit. How we perceive the pattern and the players involved is based on how our brains interpret and process the data. Your account about the Stiege is in my opinion a good one since it touches on what I had picked up on as Walter alluded to the Gestalt effect as “random meaningless input into a logical pattern”. I feel that there is a connection and how they are linked will be revealed soon enough.This is a brilliant point Windermind. That illusion wasn't a throw away scene, I think it tapped right into the heart of 'the pattern' and our perception of the larger 'game' that is taking place between corporate power, scientific ambition and the other vested interests. Walter said that it "always comes back to the duck"..I wonder whether our perceptions will be several tested over the coming weeks? If so, perhaps we should remember 'the duck', so to speak.

D-Roc: This is a good thread …very thought provoking. Keep up the good work.:tiphat:Thank you muchly - there are some excellent contributions in here also:cool43:

speaking of being stuck in amber ...

what was the additional similar cases broyles handed over to olivia? you see a picture of a black car (limo?) with the rear door open and a body encased inside wearing a suit or trench coat. there looks to be a cemetery and church in the background ... you can see a monument/headstone mixed in with the trees on the hillside, and the archway above the window in the stone wall says "YUGOSLAV SKYCH".
That was one creepy photo. I'll see if I can grab a screencap. Anyone know what "Skych" means? I could look it up but I'm tired :p

EDIT: here's the cap.
254

[Wondermind]

"It always comes back to the duck!" It would seem that for now, the duck is MD. 3 cases....3 paper trails back to DM! :detective:

[Wondermind]

speaking of being stuck in amber ...

what was the additional similar cases broyles handed over to olivia? you see a picture of a black car (limo?) with the rear door open and a body encased inside wearing a suit or trench coat. there looks to be a cemetery and church in the background ... you can see a monument/headstone mixed in with the trees on the hillside, and the archway above the window in the stone wall says "YUGOSLAV SKYCH".

These case files were from a very similiar incident/attack that happened in Prague a year earlier. Nina had made a passing reference to them when Olivia was following a lead on the some of the chemical compounds found on the bus. These compounds led indirectly back to DMs doorstep through some of their subsidiaries. Nina had mentioned how she had already filed her report to the authorities a year earlier when questioned about those same chemicals then.

[D-Roc]

"It always comes back to the duck!" It would seem that for now, the duck is MD. 3 cases....3 paper trails back to DM! :detective:
Nice!:tiphat:

How do you think we should take what Walter went on to say:

"...in truth, it is neither a duck or a rabbit" (words to that effect)

Perhaps it always comes back to MD..but in actual fact, there is another 'player' that we are yet to have knowledge of?:shhh:

[Wondermind]

How do you think we should take what Walter went on to say:

"...in truth, it is neither a duck or a rabbit" (words to that effect)

Perhaps it always comes back to MD..but in actual fact, there is another 'player' that we are yet to have knowledge of?:shhh:

Parent/Child relationship!
You have 2 parents in this case: MD as 1 parent and "X" as the second.

Who is X? We have yet to see.

However, who is the child? The Pattern.....No! But it is the enviorment in which the child can grow in. Why? It represents the end result of that or those (parents) which gave it life. Thus someone has created the pattern not to destroy but to create. The casualties of war are just the collateral damage created as the pattern continues to grow like an embryonic sac inside the mother's womb.

Walter's comment: "...in truth, it is neither a duck or a rabbit" is based on the fact that we have what is known as a hybrid or amalgamation. A merger of 2 forces, entities or concepts to create a new form of life. Be it tangible or conceptual, a new life form none-the-less.

Why do you think there are so many referrences to genetics? They are tied to the very structure of that which makes us who we are.

Consider this tie-in:
the seahorse is the 7th glyph symbol. it has 2 chemical formulas on either side of it. One is the formula for Histidine and the other is the formula for Proline. These are amino acids. Amino acids are the building block for the muscles and tissues in our bodies. These 2 amino acids are associated with the double helix DNA ladder itself. Someone is surely playing God with our genetic makeup and birthrite as humans. Why do you think that the apple core shows 2 embryos? Again, someone is playing God with humanity and they are starting at the very "core" of that which makes us humans.
What is the hybrid? The next stage of evolution.
How do we get there? By growing our own humans like apple seeds.
That symbol is not there for nothing.

Rember what Walter said about "growing soldiers"?

The clues given help to track the existence, behavior and purpose of the pattern.

This is part of my theory that I will be posting later.....stay tuned!;)

BTW: I like your new avatar.

Also, I put a new entry in Olivia's diary.

[D-Roc]

Parent/Child relationship!
You have 2 parents in this case: MD as 1 parent and "X" as the second.

Who is X? We have yet to see.

However, who is the child? The Pattern.....No! But it is the enviorment in which the child can grow in. Why? It represents the end result of that or those (parents) which gave it life. Thus someone has created the pattern not to destroy but to create. The casualties of war are just the collateral damage created as the pattern continues to grow like an embryonic sac inside the mother's womb.

Walter's comment: "...in truth, it is neither a duck or a rabbit" is based on the fact that we have what is known as a hybrid or amalgamation. A merger of 2 forces, entities or concepts to create a new form of life. Be it tangible or conceptual, a new life form none-the-less.

Why do you think there are so many referrences to genetics? They are tied to the very structure of that which makes us who we are.

Consider this tie-in:
the seahorse is the 7th glyph symbol. it has 2 chemical formulas on either side of it. One is the formula for Histidine and the other is the formula for Proline. These are amino acids. Amino acids are the building block for the muscles and tissues in our bodies. These 2 amino acids are associated with the double helix DNA ladder itself. Someone is surely playing God with our genetic makeup and birthrite as humans. Why do you think that the apple core shows 2 embryos? Again, someone is playing God with humanity and they are starting at the very "core" of that which makes us humans.
What is the hybrid? The next stage of evolution.
How do we get there? By growing our own humans like apple seeds.
That symbol is not there for nothing.

Rember what Walter said about "growing soldiers"?

The clues given help to track the existence, behavior and purpose of the pattern.

This is part of my theory that I will be posting later.....stay tuned!;)

BTW: I like your new avatar.

Also, I put a new entry in Olivia's diary.
Excellent thoughts WM, I like your thinking here!

So, it's neither a duck or a rabbit..it's BOTH! Love it, and I'm loving the notion of the hybrid in the corporate sense, as well as the genetic sense. I'll add more to this soon, I'm sure.

I've also posted a theory (http://fringe-forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223) on my Fringe 'hybrid' observations (mostly this was before the show aired, so it was based heavily on the viral clues) - feel free to check it out. I'll update it soon with some of your above thoughts, if you don't mind. I also look forward to reading your theory, when you get it posted.

(Thanks, I'm digging Sharpy, and I thought that it was high time I freshened up my avatar space:Cheers2:)

(Oh cool, I was planning to have a read of that thread anyway, I'll check it out!:goodvibes:)

[D-Roc]

Also, just remembered another line from Peter which could possibly support the Jurassic Park/Cloning reference.

When Peter was asking Olivia what she wanted to be when she was young - he told her: "When I was 9, I wanted to be a Brontisaurus".

A Brontisaurus being a type of Dinosaur (Jurassic Park - Mosquitos in Amber - Cloning Dinosaurs..)

I know this is probably nothing more than a random line with little or no hidden meaning..but then this is Fringe and this is a JJ Abrams show, so you never know ;) Not saying it's incredibly important, but I thought I'd mention it as it's better out than in.

EDIT: Another possibility is that this line refers to the idea that Walter experimented on Peter as a kid, and perhaps changed him genetically, with Peter's own identity somehow overcoming his fathers meddling - someone here on FF (cleverly) pointed out that Walter seemed surprised that Peter preferred Jazz over Bach, perhaps alluding to the idea that Walter didn't 'code' Peter that way.

Nature vs Nurture..

[sevntl]

Parent/Child relationship!
The casualties of war are just the collateral damage created as the pattern continues to grow like an embryonic sac inside the mother's womb.

Good point, like the death of skin cells provisioning the growth of the individual as a whole. The pattern may not be as predictable as we would like to perceive it and I think this is what the reference to the duck and the rabbit is alluding to. again great post.

D-Roc: Great thread.:thankyousign:

[jords]

I agree 100%. "Mosquitos in amber" reminded me immediately of Jurassic Park and the cloning.

Agreed. As soon as Walter said the amber reference, the next words out of my mouth were directly from Jurrasic Park:

Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.

Between that and Peter's "I wanted to be a Brontosaurus" quip, I couldn't get Jurrasic Park off my mind.

I did some digging, and did you know that the brontosaurus itself was a kind of hybrid? The scientific community has spent much time trying to determine how these creatures could breathe, as the reptilian respiratory system could not have supplied enough new air into the Brontosaur's system with each breath. The closest system they can estimate would have been a bird's.

Random tidbit that has nothing to do with Peter's background? Perhaps. Or clue into his background?

With this interesting thought lingering in the background, and Wondermind's and D-Roc's hybrid theorizing, (You had me at "It's neither a duck or a rabbit!":faintthud:) I have to wonder if the Jurrasic Park references were the Easter Egg into MD's larger role in the story.