Peter's Past: a theory

[Pocket_Owl]

Most people take for granted that Big Eddie exists and is probably still out there in Boston somewhere, trying to find Peter to put the screws to him for failure to pay back debts.

I say Big Eddie never existed to begin with.

Take a look at the scene where we first learn of Big Eddie. Peter has just found out that Olivia doesn't have his 'super secret FBI file', at all; she's been bluffing him this whole time. Aside from the new respect he gains for Olivia, the very next thing he does is tell her the story about Big Eddie. Why would he do that, if not to cover his tracks? No, he knows he gave away the fact that _there is_ a super secret FBI file, now he feels he must give some sort of explanation as to why that is. It's not a particularly 'secret' thing he tells her, though; if it was true it'd be in his _regular_ FBI file, which we know Olivia already has.

So, Peter has a file "the FBI would say doesn't exist". What's in it, if not for Big Eddie? Peter is much more that just a petty criminal, going from job to job. He's some sort of 'operative': a spy, an independent contractor, a corporate agent (maybe for Massive Dynamic), a spook.

What other evidence do we have for this fact?

-- The photographer in episode 3 says Peter failed to check in when he got back to town.
-- Peter speaks a lot of languages and has an excuse as to why he learned each of them.
-- Peter is uncommonly good at interrogation techniques, as well as fighting and using a weapon.
-- In "Jacksonville", he accesses the computers at Massive Dynamic. If Massive Dynamic thinks he's a criminal, no way he's going to be given root access to their mainframe. Either he's spying on them (and hacked in) or he's working for them.
-- Peter has got a 'fixer' for everything, everywhere -- and they all seem strongly motivated to accommodate him in one fashion or another.


So what do you think .. Spy!Peter? Or Criminal!Peter?

-- K.

[Jabberwock]

Now that you mention it... Spy!Peter looks quite probable. Particularly if he works for MD or the FBI. And it would be very interesting.

[miley]

I never thought about it, but it actually does seem possible :happy15:

[RayleneL]

wow! that is a lot to think about..
I agree with all of that. personally i have wondered about the interegation thing. He claims to be skilled because of having "been on both sides of the table", but it is still suspicious.

omg. i have been angry about the Big Eddy thing ever since it was mentioned! am i really supposed to believe that a pissed off mob boss isn't going to track Peter down immediatly after being informed of his return? I mean, in a real life situation Peter would be lying in a gutter no more than two days after beating up that guy.
Perhaps "big eddie" is not a mob boss at all, but something far more sinister.
Perhaps Peter came into contact with him whilst doing a super secret government mission.

oh, and something i can't shake is the time peter and olivia went to Iraq.
That guy they paid to find the doctor said some extremely harsh things about Peter.. and it is very obvious that Peter did/was involved in something really awful. possibly bomb-related, if you recall the amount of time the camera focused on his face while examining the bomb victims.

WHO IS THIS GUY????
:)

[Pocket_Owl]

wow! that is a lot to think about..
I agree with all of that. personally i have wondered about the interegation thing. He claims to be skilled because of having "been on both sides of the table", but it is still suspicious.

omg. i have been angry about the Big Eddy thing ever since it was mentioned! am i really supposed to believe that a pissed off mob boss isn't going to track Peter down immediatly after being informed of his return? I mean, in a real life situation Peter would be lying in a gutter no more than two days after beating up that guy.
Perhaps "big eddie" is not a mob boss at all, but something far more sinister.
Perhaps Peter came into contact with him whilst doing a super secret government mission.

Well, I don't think Big Eddie exists at all. It's obvious, however, that Peter has done some work in Boston what with the MIT gig and his relationship with Tes and all.


oh, and something i can't shake is the time peter and olivia went to Iraq.
That guy they paid to find the doctor said some extremely harsh things about Peter.. and it is very obvious that Peter did/was involved in something really awful. possibly bomb-related, if you recall the amount of time the camera focused on his face while examining the bomb victims.

WHO IS THIS GUY????
:)

Yeah, I noticed that, too. One of the options is 'arms dealer'. Or Peter could have done some arms dealing as part of a larger stint as a a more general agent.

We have no idea who he's working for, if indeed he's not a contractor and changes employers often.

-- K.

[Benchy]

Hmm...I think criminalpeter, just because his mannerisms and behaviours are those of someone who can't help but screw up and is trying to outrun his past. Its possible he's worked with the FBI or government before, but i doubt it. I think his confession to olivia about Big Eddie was true, that's the main thing Broyles is holding over his head right?they'd pay off his debts etc.

He just doesn't have spy-ness about him, if that makes sense. He's more brute then suave, he's darker than just formal...

But thats just my opinion. :)

[Pocket_Owl]

Hmm...I think criminalpeter, just because his mannerisms and behaviours are those of someone who can't help but screw up and is trying to outrun his past. Its possible he's worked with the FBI or government before, but i doubt it. I think his confession to olivia about Big Eddie was true, that's the main thing Broyles is holding over his head right?they'd pay off his debts etc.

He just doesn't have spy-ness about him, if that makes sense. He's more brute then suave, he's darker than just formal...

But thats just my opinion. :)

Well, he's certainly not James Bond, even if he is not a criminal.

Broyles offered to pay Peter's debts outright (as opposed to holding it over his head) and Peter refused.

He doesn't have to have worked for any sort of government, although that's an option. He could be a corporate spy, finding out trade secrets and the like.

-- K.

[Benchy]

Hmm, yeah but I think the way he's been scripted, the way he speaks etc, its so he's the counterfoil to Olivia, she's the wounded but law abiding good officer, he's the rogue with a good heart. I have no doubt that he's been involved in corporate espionage etc at all, but I think he's a criminal, a guy who got caught up in the wrong people, and doesn't like the way of the world...

[phoneybalogna]

Well, he's certainly not James Bond, even if he is not a criminal.

Broyles offered to pay Peter's debts outright (as opposed to holding it over his head) and Peter refused.

He doesn't have to have worked for any sort of government, although that's an option. He could be a corporate spy, finding out trade secrets and the like.

-- K.

If he's a corporate spy, it's not for massive dynamic otherwise his initial "deal" with Nina in season one wouldn't have gone the way it did.
And if he's a corporate spy for someone else, then Nina would know that as well (or at least suspect it) and would not give Peter access to MD stuff.

My guess is criminal!Peter. He's quite willing to break the law, his "friends" are ne'er do wells, he has a penchant for government conspiracy theories and a problem with authority.
I think he used his ability to read people to sell whatever he could to whomever he could. He's a classic confidence man. Which seems to fit with a guy that was abandoned by his father and lost his mother to suicide - he's just looking out for himself now.
Now, did he occasionally sell to US gov agents? Maybe so. My guess is that he sold to whomever - he had no allegiance other than to the guy who could pay him the most.
What's the deal with Big Eddie? Who knows, he may just be a casualty of shorter episodes. :P

[Pocket_Owl]

Hmm, yeah but I think the way he's been scripted, the way he speaks etc, its so he's the counterfoil to Olivia, she's the wounded but law abiding good officer, he's the rogue with a good heart.

I think that characterization is absolutely true, and if it turns out that Peter is more than _just_ a criminal, we wouldn't need to change our perception of that one bit.


I have no doubt that he's been involved in corporate espionage etc at all, but I think he's a criminal, a guy who got caught up in the wrong people, and doesn't like the way of the world...

I guess it depends on what you mean by 'criminal' here. I think that Peter has absolutely done things which are against the law, but disagree that he's just a petty criminal, going from con job to con job. How do you have a sooper-sekret FBI file if you're just a petty criminal?

I'm enjoying our conversation; I hope you don't mind the disagreement. I think you and I agree on a lot, we're just hung up on words.

-- K.

[Benchy]

phoneybalogna, i agree entirely with what you're saying

and pocket_owl, no i dont mind disagreement or challenge at all :D I think Peter is a very intelligent guy thanks to his father ofcourse and his own streetsmart skills. I'm not saying he's a petty criminal, I'm saying he's a genius who thinks of usually-smart ways to get what he wants. He's the kind of guy who could put his mind to anything and get it if he wants it. But he certainly doesn't fit in with the govermentworker mentality. He's more of an outcast, or loner per se.
Criminal all the way! :D

[Pocket_Owl]

Yay, debate!


If he's a corporate spy, it's not for massive dynamic otherwise his initial "deal" with Nina in season one wouldn't have gone the way it did.
And if he's a corporate spy for someone else, then Nina would know that as well (or at least suspect it) and would not give Peter access to MD stuff.

Well, he could have been a corporate spy in between contracts, and MD wanted to pick him up or he's a double agent and spying both for and against MD. Maybe she wanted something else entirely. There are lots of ways it could have gone.


My guess is criminal!Peter. He's quite willing to break the law, his "friends" are ne'er do wells, he has a penchant for government conspiracy theories and a problem with authority.
I think he used his ability to read people to sell whatever he could to whomever he could. He's a classic confidence man. Which seems to fit with a guy that was abandoned by his father and lost his mother to suicide - he's just looking out for himself now.
Now, did he occasionally sell to US gov agents? Maybe so. My guess is that he sold to whomever - he had no allegiance other than to the guy who could pay him the most.

All of this could be true and we could still have Operative!Peter. (Remember I don't just mean "spy" in the typical James Bond way, although that is one way this could be true.)

The problem comes in that there are some details that arise that can't be quiet explained away by the simple 'con man' hypothesis.


But he certainly doesn't fit in with the govermentworker mentality. He's more of an outcast, or loner per se.
Criminal all the way! :D

I don't think they hire civil servant types to be spies. :P He could also be an 'independent contractor' and not working for the government at all.

-- K.

[phoneybalogna]

Maybe we don't mean the same thing by Operative.

When I think of an Operative, I think of someone who works for an agency (sometimes governmental) because of an allegiance to the group or the ideal that the group represents. While one might work for some personal gain as an operative, one's ultimate goal is to act to benefit the agency.
By this definition, Olivia is an operative.

So, an operative is not defined by activities but by motivations. I agree that Peter is more like an "independent contractor." While he may have, at times, acted as if he were an operative, ultimately he's just looking out for himself. So, if any of his "operative" activities were illegal - then he was Criminal!Peter and not Operative!Peter, because Peter had no allegiance to anything other than himself.
That's why I think he originally made a great foil for Olivia. While both are willing to engage in similar behavior, their reasons for doing so appear to be quite different.

And I do agree that "con man" is too simplistic. I think given Peter's behavior in the second season, he doesn't have the antisocial personality that a con artist typically does. I think he acts to survive and if that means engaing in criminal activity, then so be it.
And in the end, I think that makes Peter's story even sadder. He's actually a good, caring person. He's positive and helpful. All the things he likely could have always been had Walter not gone crazy and his mom committed suicide (and the disruptive home life that must have come before his parents' departures).

Ultimately, I think we all probably agree that Peter's pre-fringe division adult life is far more interesting that what's been let on so far. Wild-land firefighter? Cargo pilot? fake MIT professor? that's what we know because that's what he's been caught doing...imagine the things he got away with!

[Pocket_Owl]

Well, I have a slightly different view of what an operative is. To me, an operative is someone whose work is covert and directed towards something other than personal gain (usually someone else's personal gain :P), whatever his motivations for taking the work is. He could be CIA or NSA or DHS or corporate spy or Naval Intelligence or arms dealer or whatever-they're-calling-Blackwater-now or all of them and he wouldn't have to care what the mission of the organization was to work for them. I agree with you that he probably doesn't, anyway.

Operatives often do things that are illegal, and that makes them criminals, also, but they are not just criminals.

-- K.

ETA: My husband reminds me that the technical term for an 'independent contractor' in these cases is 'asset'.

[Jabberwock]

I think that Big Eddie exists, he's just not the most important person looking for him. When Olivia said that she'd tell interested individuals where he was, I doubt a Boston Mob boss would send his people across the oceans to a war zone for any amount of money. For that to happen, it had to be someone with either powerful or wide-spread connections. Or both.

Perhaps Peter did "odd jobs" for various people, like J**n in Human Target (I don't know the actor's name... >>). Eventually, it either got too dangerous or too boring for him, and so he ran, chock full of incredibly important and dangerous information. If this is the case, there's probably several important former victims and clients searching for him, and doing everything in their power to find him. Perhaps, before, Peter ended up owing money to Big Eddie and he used that to explain away why he had been so worried about people looking for him.

Or perhaps Big Eddie is important, but Peter lied about who he was exactly. Perhaps he's someone who been hired by one former client or another to find him, and he's been looking for a looooooong time. Perhaps the reason Peter moved around so much wasn't necessarily a nomadic urge, but more for self preservation; he'd stay in a place until they found him and then ran before they could pin him down.

Obviously this is all half-guess work. But it sounded pretty good.

[RayleneL]

i agree jabberwock. Big E probably isn't the most important person looking for Peter, which is why Peter easily gives up the info to Olivia. Whether or not he is who Peter claims he is remains to be seen, but I definitly think Big Eddie is a real person.

I knew about the MIT thing, but when was peter ever a firefighter or a cargo pilot? :confused: Does anyone know which episode this is revealed?

[Pocket_Owl]

I think that Big Eddie exists, he's just not the most important person looking for him. When Olivia said that she'd tell interested individuals where he was, I doubt a Boston Mob boss would send his people across the oceans to a war zone for any amount of money. For that to happen, it had to be someone with either powerful or wide-spread connections. Or both.

Perhaps Peter did "odd jobs" for various people, like J**n in Human Target (I don't know the actor's name... >>). Eventually, it either got too dangerous or too boring for him, and so he ran, chock full of incredibly important and dangerous information. If this is the case, there's probably several important former victims and clients searching for him, and doing everything in their power to find him. Perhaps, before, Peter ended up owing money to Big Eddie and he used that to explain away why he had been so worried about people looking for him.

Or perhaps Big Eddie is important, but Peter lied about who he was exactly. Perhaps he's someone who been hired by one former client or another to find him, and he's been looking for a looooooong time. Perhaps the reason Peter moved around so much wasn't necessarily a nomadic urge, but more for self preservation; he'd stay in a place until they found him and then ran before they could pin him down.

Obviously this is all half-guess work. But it sounded pretty good.

This is definitely one good way my theory could play out and it would be very interesting. There is undoubtedly somebody looking for Peter (they may even be named "Large Edward"), but I doubt it's over any sort of monetary gambling debt.

So, when Olivia blackmails Peter with his 'file' she says this: "The one the FBI would say doesn't exist. And it has everything. Where you've been, what you're running from. And what you need while you're here."

So: Where has Peter been? What's he running from? What did Peter need in Iraq?

Any guesses?

-- K.

[Rebe]

So, when Olivia blackmails Peter with his 'file' she says this: "The one the FBI would say doesn't exist. And it has everything. Where you've been, what you're running from. And what you need while you're here."

So: Where has Peter been? What's he running from? What did Peter need in Iraq?


Olivia was bluffing when she blackmailed him with the file. :D

[phoneybalogna]

i agree jabberwock. Big E probably isn't the most important person looking for Peter, which is why Peter easily gives up the info to Olivia. Whether or not he is who Peter claims he is remains to be seen, but I definitly think Big Eddie is a real person.

I knew about the MIT thing, but when was peter ever a firefighter or a cargo pilot? :confused: Does anyone know which episode this is revealed?

It's when we first meet Peter. Olivia is talking about his background as he's stepping out of a car in Iraq.

[Pocket_Owl]

Olivia was bluffing when she blackmailed him with the file. :D

Yes, of course, that was my original premise. :D

Peter, however, reacted as if the file was real. That she didn't have it doesn't change the fact that what she presented as real was true enough to threaten him into doing something he really didn't want to.

So what do you think the truth behind it was, if anything?

-- K.

[RayleneL]

It's when we first meet Peter. Olivia is talking about his background as he's stepping out of a car in Iraq.

hmm.. i guess i must've totally missed that part! lol thanks!:tiphat:

[Joe Curwen]

Yes, of course, that was my original premise. :D

Peter, however, reacted as if the file was real. That she didn't have it doesn't change the fact that what she presented as real was true enough to threaten him into doing something he really didn't want to.

So what do you think the truth behind it was, if anything?

-- K.

I think the truth is exactly what Peter said it was. The reason he was running away was to avoid getting whacked by Big Eddy for failure to pay back the money he borrowed. What he needed in Iraq was money - he was making a deal for $600K.

There were four episodes in S1 that touched on Peter's past. All of them were not only consistent with what we learned in the pilot episode, but reinforced it. So IMO that's all there is.

Also, Peter began as a briliant but angry ne'er-do-well that for the first time in his life has a cause and important connections to other people which were having a healing effect on him and allowing him to grow. If we find out that he's been lying and working for someone else this whole time, doesn't that gut his storyline?

The secret agent you are looking for is: Astrid!

--
Joe

[Pocket_Owl]

I think the truth is exactly what Peter said it was. The reason he was running away was to avoid getting whacked by Big Eddy for failure to pay back the money he borrowed. What he needed in Iraq was money - he was making a deal for $600K.

If this were true, again, no need for there to be a extra secret file on it; it would have been in his _regular_ FBI file. The only things they would keep in such a file are things that would have to be kept secret from FBI agents. Even if there's not such a file, the fact that Peter believes there is reason to be says _ a lot_.


There were four episodes in S1 that touched on Peter's past. All of them were not only consistent with what we learned in the pilot episode, but reinforced it. So IMO that's all there is.

Nothing that I recall is inconsistent with the theory presented here.


Also, Peter began as a briliant but angry ne'er-do-well that for the first time in his life has a cause and important connections to other people which were having a healing effect on him and allowing him to grow. If we find out that he's been lying and working for someone else this whole time, doesn't that gut his storyline?

Well, first of all, nothing in what you said about Peter would be contradicted by this theory. He can still be a "briliant but angry ne'er-do-well that for the first time in his life has a cause and important connections to other people which were having a healing effect on him and allowing him to grow" and also have previously been, say, an arms dealer for Blackwater.

Second, he doesn't have to have been working for anybody else for the time he's been with Fringe Division; this theory is strictly about his past.


The secret agent you are looking for is: Astrid!

:haha:
Please post that theory! I'd like to read it!

-- K.

[Joe Curwen]

If this were true, again, no need for there to be a extra secret file on it; it would have been in his _regular_ FBI file. The only things they would keep in such a file are things that would have to be kept secret from FBI agents. Even if there's not such a file, the fact that Peter believes there is reason to be says _ a lot_.

Olivia said something about 'the file that the FBI will deny having'. I thought this referred to the urban legend that the FBI has a dossier on every American, which the FBI insists isn't true. In saying that, Olivia was simply playing on Peter's paranoia, and if Peter believed her, then he believed a common legend. I don't know much about the FBI, but I think that if the FBI did have a file on Peter, there would only be one file and they would classify its use if it referenced anything secret. If it had to be shared at a lower level, it would be redacted first.

That being said, it doesn't invalidate your observation. Peter may well have a secret past that hasn't been revealed yet. An observation to add here is that nothing makes Peter angrier it seems than when Walter makes a crack about "his wasted youth and education". Whatever it was that Peter was doing that couldn't be described as a waste of his talents we haven't been told.


Nothing that I recall is inconsistent with the theory presented here..

True.


Well, first of all, nothing in what you said about Peter would be contradicted by this theory. He can still be a "briliant but angry ne'er-do-well that for the first time in his life has a cause and important connections to other people which were having a healing effect on him and allowing him to grow" and also have previously been, say, an arms dealer for Blackwater..

Why the heck are you making me read that lame run-on sentence...oh crap it was mine. You are avenged. :)

I can't deny that it isn't a possibility. However, whatever it was he did couldn't have been illegal. If Peter had been involved in any kind of felony, then Olivia would be prevented from having a relationship with him - the FBI is very strict on that point.


Second, he doesn't have to have been working for anybody else for the time he's been with Fringe Division; this theory is strictly about his past..

Not convinced yet, but I'm hoping that they will flesh out his character a bit more in the upcoming episodes. He is too often a one-note character.

:haha:

Please post that theory! I'd like to read it!

-- K.

We know that Astrid is a languages expert. We also know that she is very strong in science and technology, especially computer science.

If you look at the kinds of people the CIA recruits, Astrid isn't just a likely candidate, she's *perfect*. And with her interest in cryptology, it makes you go hmmmm.

Her dedication to Walter goes above the call of duty - way above. What if Walter is her assignment? Seems likely that the DoD would keep a close watch on Walter.

--
Joe

[Pocket_Owl]

Olivia said something about 'the file that the FBI will deny having'. I thought this referred to the urban legend that the FBI has a dossier on every American, which the FBI insists isn't true. In saying that, Olivia was simply playing on Peter's paranoia, and if Peter believed her, then he believed a common legend. I don't know much about the FBI, but I think that if the FBI did have a file on Peter, there would only be one file and they would classify its use if it referenced anything secret. If it had to be shared at a lower level, it would be redacted first.


This is a very interesting theory. Despite the fact that this would have played right into Peter's "conspiracy mindset", ConMan!Peter would have had no reason to believe that the FBI wouldn't have had a regular file about him, though. And further, the info about Big Eddie would have _been_ in the regular file, if it had been true.

Couple that with Olivia saying she didn't have any such file, when she obviously had his regular FBI file, and you can obviously conclude they were talking about something different.


That being said, it doesn't invalidate your observation. Peter may well have a secret past that hasn't been revealed yet. An observation to add here is that nothing makes Peter angrier it seems than when Walter makes a crack about "his wasted youth and education". Whatever it was that Peter was doing that couldn't be described as a waste of his talents we haven't been told.

Not to invalidate my own position here, but I always though that was just because he didn't think Walter had a right to pass judegment on him as a father.

I can see it your way though.:happy0025:


I can't deny that it isn't a possibility. However, whatever it was he did couldn't have been illegal. If Peter had been involved in any kind of felony, then Olivia would be prevented from having a relationship with him - the FBI is very strict on that point.

I am am fairly certain that falsifying a degree from MIT and gaining income equivalent to that of a college professor is felony fraud. So, either the writers are ignoring that, Olivia is ignoring that, or there are extenuating circumstances.


Not convinced yet, but I'm hoping that they will flesh out his character a bit more in the upcoming episodes. He is too often a one-note character.

So true, so true. I hope we'll find out something while he's away from the group. It'd provide a good opportunity.


We know that Astrid is a languages expert. We also know that she is very strong in science and technology, especially computer science.

If you look at the kinds of people the CIA recruits, Astrid isn't just a likely candidate, she's *perfect*. And with her interest in cryptology, it makes you go hmmmm.

Her dedication to Walter goes above the call of duty - way above. What if Walter is her assignment? Seems likely that the DoD would keep a close watch on Walter.


Of course all of that also applies equally well to Peter ...


Oh, and the Big Eddie story turned out to be false in the musical episode, too. :P

-- K.

[ScienceQueen18]

I would have liked to see Big Eddie honestly ...

My biggest question, and I might have missed the answer, if I have, I'm sorry, is, is Peter's actual actual father alive? Alter-Walter? Do we know or has JJ yet to tell us?

[Pocket_Owl]

I would have liked to see Big Eddie honestly ...

My biggest question, and I might have missed the answer, if I have, I'm sorry, is, is Peter's actual actual father alive? Alter-Walter? Do we know or has JJ yet to tell us?

"Walternate's" state of living is unknown but the last time we saw him, in 1985, he was alive and we have been given no reason to suspect he died in between now and then.

-- K.

[Kousina]

I am am fairly certain that falsifying a degree from MIT and gaining income equivalent to that of a college professor is felony fraud. So, either the writers are ignoring that, Olivia is ignoring that, or there are extenuating circumstances.

-- K.

I am not certain of that. Certainly falsifying a Ph.D. from MIT and gaining a professorship is difficult enough but since he was able to publish papers he clearly very capable in chemistry. This feat is all the more impressive in light of the fact that he is a high school drop-out and the fact that he doesn't stay in one place very long. He would have been terminated from the university that he was at for fraud but it would be unlikely that he was prosecuted since he performed (at least some of) his duties (writing papers is the primary duty of a professor) and it would also be very embarrassing for the institute.

Also it would be EXTREMELY unlikely he was a Chemistry professor at MIT as his fellow faculty members would be the same people he would have allegedly obtained his degree from. They would know that he did not receive his degree from MIT.

[Pocket_Owl]

I am not certain of that. Certainly falsifying a Ph.D. from MIT and gaining a professorship is difficult enough but since he was able to publish papers he clearly very capable in chemistry. This feat is all the more impressive in light of the fact that he is a high school drop-out and the fact that he doesn't stay in one place very long. He would have been terminated from the university that he was at for fraud but it would be unlikely that he was prosecuted since he performed (at least some of) his duties (writing papers is the primary duty of a professor) and it would also be very embarrassing for the institute.

Also it would be EXTREMELY unlikely he was a Chemistry professor at MIT as his fellow faculty members would be the same people he would have allegedly obtained his degree from. They would know that he did not receive his degree from MIT.

It is unknown where he was a professor, but it is know that the degree he falsified was from MIT.

OLIVIA: He's been a wild land fireman, cargo pilot and briefly a college chemistry professor. He falsified a degree from MIT. He even managed to get a few papers published before he was found out.

It certainly is a feat and he is obviously capable in chemistry. (It might be genetic!) However, he did commit felony fraud. No matter how impressive or cool of an accomplishment it was and regardless of how little the school would want the incident publicized in court, the fact is that he still obtained the position under fraudulent terms and the salary of a college professor is such that it would shortly qualify to be a felony.

Joe Curwen argued that Peter could not have done anything illegal, as Olivia would be prevented from having a relationship with him because of it. I was merely pointing out a situation where he is known to have done so.

-- K.

[Montecito]

I would have liked to see Big Eddie honestly ...


Yeah I agree. It would be cool to see Peter goes into the underworld of the mobs..

you know... big Ed comes and says to Peter "you owe me a favor" and stuff like that..:P

[XanDior]

Spy Peter - my vote.

I'll do one better. I say Broyles knows.

In "Night of Desirable Objects," Broyles and Peter are walking around:
PETER: Did you get me everything on my list?
BROYLES: The F.B.I. signed off on everything you asked for, including new housing for you and your father. But the C-130 transport plane is proving a bit tough to requisition.
PETER: We're not gonna need it for this one. (hands him a sheet of paper)
BROYLES: Pennsylvania?
PETER: I was trolling the F.B.I. databases, looking for any cases that were similar to Olivia's -- sudden disappearances. This town has had six missing people in the last two months, four of which eyewitnesses say just disappeared into thin air. Thought it was worth checking out.
BROYLES: How is she?
PETER: Olivia? She'll be fine.
BROYLES: Do it. And keep a close eye on Dunham.

Ok, I know Broyles is cool and he sees the Bishops as an asset to the division, and he accommodates his agents well...But a C-130 transport plane??? For what? This is before Broyles knows about the disappearing hicks in Pennsylvania.

Throughout the episode, he relies on Peter to report to him about Olivia. He doesn't seem to want to know his take on the science of the weird happenings. Almost like he's a plant, and agent, or an Internal Affairs rep.

Recall the first episode when Peter is first mentioned:
BROYLES: And you're wasting your breath and my time. Do you understand "immediate family?" You want to question Dr. Bishop, you go find his next of kin and have him escort you in. Talk to Bishop, uncover something substantial and I will have your back. Until then, I am not so convinced. Now, can you handle that?
OLIVIA: He does have a son.
BROYLES: Is his son a local too?
OLIVIA: Not exactly.

(helicopter flyover of the city while voiceover from the Federal Building continues)
BROYLES: (in voiceover) So this guy's Walter Bishop's son?
OLIVIA: (in voiceover) His name is Peter Bishop. He's a high-school drop-out, IQ at 190, just 50 points north of genius. Misfit, nomad. Hasn't kept a job longer than two months. He's been a wild land fireman, cargo pilot and briefly a college chemistry professor. He falsified a degree from MIT. He even managed to get a few papers published before he was found out. Sounds like a massive pain in the ass.



It's like you see in spy movies and such, where the agent says "I found this guy who can help" and the Director knows more about the guy than the agent does. Broyles says more by what he doesn't say or ask Olivia in this exchange.


Also, in "Dream Logic," when Olivia jokes about him getting an MIT shirt "to impress the girls," Peter says "Yeah. Something like that."


Have we ever seen Peter be the "Rico Suave" womanizer? Flirting and seducing women to get info or whatever? No. He actually rebuffs their advances and suggestions. What he *does* do is personalize his meetings or interrogations by talking about fishing lures, basketball, etc.

He's not the typical social misfit who can't hold a job. He's pretty focused and seems to gravitate to areas/locations/jobs where his services would be needed.

It can't be for pure personal gain - where's the flashy car? The bottomless bank account? The secret lifestyle of women, champagne, and Vegas that some scam artist out to bilk millions from countries would surround himself with? Why was he in Iraq at first offering his services in construction/architectural/infrastructural planning? Just to get away from it all? He needed a job? To hide? There are better ways of anonymously disappearing into the crowd than getting multi-million dollar contracts.

It makes no sense.

I say there's more to him than we know. I think he's a government agent of some kind.

[Jabberwock]

Xan (Who is an amazing character from Baldur's Gate, btw. >D "Life is so hollow..."), your post is awesome. It's one of my new favorites. >D

[XanDior]

Thx, Jabberwock. :)

Also, why is it that as of late, Broyles and Peter are roaming the streets in the open, waving Top Secret files and discussing cases between themselves? Remember when this was all limited to Olivia in the office?

Broyles seems very accommodating to Peter in "Northwest Passage."

Nice to know an unassigned, rogue "Civilian Consultant" with no defined job description (even though he's Walter's 'son') gets full Bureau support.

Also, why was it Peter who gave Broyles the Shapeshifter's mouth-plug to present to the government committee reviewing Fringe Division?

[die.trying]

Perhaps a governmental spy for Broyles who is actually from the AU!

I will have to ponder this thought of Peter as a spy. It could be...

[Pocket_Owl]

Spy Peter - my vote.

I'll do one better. I say Broyles knows.

I agree, although I think that Broyles may not have known from the beginning. I think the fact that Peter didn't want his debts paid off is what tipped him to begin an investigation.

I do think that Broyles prefers to work with Olivia for Fringe investigations, though, Most of the instances you cite are early in the second season when she's recovering. I do think the reason Broyles feels he can interact with Peter in this way is because he knows things about Peter's past that we don't.


Have we ever seen Peter be the "Rico Suave" womanizer? Flirting and seducing women to get info or whatever? No. He actually rebuffs their advances and suggestions. What he *does* do is personalize his meetings or interrogations by talking about fishing lures, basketball, etc.

I think that his interactions with Rachel can be seen in this in this light, but this is again personalization of interrogation methods -- it's what Rachel would respond to. I leave it as an exercise for the reader to determine what sort of information he wanted from Rachel and whether it was information he wanted for strictly personal reasons. :)


It can't be for pure personal gain - where's the flashy car? The bottomless bank account? The secret lifestyle of women, champagne, and Vegas that some scam artist out to bilk millions from countries would surround himself with? Why was he in Iraq at first offering his services in construction/architectural/infrastructural planning? Just to get away from it all? He needed a job? To hide? There are better ways of anonymously disappearing into the crowd than getting multi-million dollar contracts.

It makes no sense.

I say there's more to him than we know. I think he's a government agent of some kind.

Well, I do think that Peter is self-interested (in the Randian sense) and that was the reason he became an operative of some sort. He's just not interested in a flashy lifestyle.

If you posit a self-interested Peter, however, many of the actions he's taken (Iraqi construction? Chemistry professor?) just don't make sense in a context of Peter being a criminal.


Perhaps a governmental spy for Broyles who is actually from the AU!

You mean Broyles is from the Other Side? I think Olivia would have noticed the SFX.

-- K.

[FlyingSpaghettiMonster]

Maybe Peter's a government agent, but doesn't know it??

I do think that it was very, very, awfully convenient in the Pilot that Olivia needed this random scientist (Walter) to help her cure John Scott and that it turned that not only he, but his son too, were directly involved in some way in all The Pattern-y stuff going on??? I think it was all an inside job and it was BROYLES working for MD on the side in order to get these 2 people, esp Peter, back on their radar...

[Pocket_Owl]

Maybe Peter's a government agent, but doesn't know it??

I do think that it was very, very, awfully convenient in the Pilot that Olivia needed this random scientist (Walter) to help her cure John Scott and that it turned that not only he, but his son too, were directly involved in some way in all The Pattern-y stuff going on??? I think it was all an inside job and it was BROYLES working for MD on the side in order to get these 2 people, esp Peter, back on their radar...

That's a very interesting thought, but how would that have played out? Let's see:

So, Peter is an operative/government asset/spy and TPTB decide they want him for the Fringe project. So, they purposefully send Olivia and John into a situation where the consequences are that they will need Walter and, hence, Peter.

So, now they've got Peter, how are they using him as spy without his knowledge?

-- K.

[Jabberwock]

Ha! In the spirit of this idea, I have begun a story that plays Peter as a former corporate spy. All those who are interested in this theory should come and read it! It's called Nina's Favor.

[Montecito]

Spy Peter - my vote.

I'll do one better. I say Broyles knows.

In "Night of Desirable Objects," Broyles and Peter are walking around:
PETER: Did you get me everything on my list?
BROYLES: The F.B.I. signed off on everything you asked for, including new housing for you and your father. But the C-130 transport plane is proving a bit tough to requisition.
PETER: We're not gonna need it for this one. (hands him a sheet of paper)
BROYLES: Pennsylvania?
PETER: I was trolling the F.B.I. databases, looking for any cases that were similar to Olivia's -- sudden disappearances. This town has had six missing people in the last two months, four of which eyewitnesses say just disappeared into thin air. Thought it was worth checking out.
BROYLES: How is she?
PETER: Olivia? She'll be fine.
BROYLES: Do it. And keep a close eye on Dunham.

Ok, I know Broyles is cool and he sees the Bishops as an asset to the division, and he accommodates his agents well...But a C-130 transport plane??? For what? This is before Broyles knows about the disappearing hicks in Pennsylvania.

Throughout the episode, he relies on Peter to report to him about Olivia. He doesn't seem to want to know his take on the science of the weird happenings. Almost like he's a plant, and agent, or an Internal Affairs rep.

Recall the first episode when Peter is first mentioned:
BROYLES: And you're wasting your breath and my time. Do you understand "immediate family?" You want to question Dr. Bishop, you go find his next of kin and have him escort you in. Talk to Bishop, uncover something substantial and I will have your back. Until then, I am not so convinced. Now, can you handle that?
OLIVIA: He does have a son.
BROYLES: Is his son a local too?
OLIVIA: Not exactly.

(helicopter flyover of the city while voiceover from the Federal Building continues)
BROYLES: (in voiceover) So this guy's Walter Bishop's son?
OLIVIA: (in voiceover) His name is Peter Bishop. He's a high-school drop-out, IQ at 190, just 50 points north of genius. Misfit, nomad. Hasn't kept a job longer than two months. He's been a wild land fireman, cargo pilot and briefly a college chemistry professor. He falsified a degree from MIT. He even managed to get a few papers published before he was found out. Sounds like a massive pain in the ass.



It's like you see in spy movies and such, where the agent says "I found this guy who can help" and the Director knows more about the guy than the agent does. Broyles says more by what he doesn't say or ask Olivia in this exchange.


Also, in "Dream Logic," when Olivia jokes about him getting an MIT shirt "to impress the girls," Peter says "Yeah. Something like that."


Have we ever seen Peter be the "Rico Suave" womanizer? Flirting and seducing women to get info or whatever? No. He actually rebuffs their advances and suggestions. What he *does* do is personalize his meetings or interrogations by talking about fishing lures, basketball, etc.

He's not the typical social misfit who can't hold a job. He's pretty focused and seems to gravitate to areas/locations/jobs where his services would be needed.

It can't be for pure personal gain - where's the flashy car? The bottomless bank account? The secret lifestyle of women, champagne, and Vegas that some scam artist out to bilk millions from countries would surround himself with? Why was he in Iraq at first offering his services in construction/architectural/infrastructural planning? Just to get away from it all? He needed a job? To hide? There are better ways of anonymously disappearing into the crowd than getting multi-million dollar contracts.

It makes no sense.

I say there's more to him than we know. I think he's a government agent of some kind.

The goverment runs the whole FBI & the Fringe Division..

why the need for an extra spy to spy on Olivia Dunham????:confused:

[Quill]

He's definitely a thief of some sort. They're have been far too many anvils about it. And it's not regular B&E level, but more Mission Impossible.


I guess it depends on what you mean by 'criminal' here. I think that Peter has absolutely done things which are against the law, but disagree that he's just a petty criminal, going from con job to con job. How do you have a sooper-sekret FBI file if you're just a petty criminal?
Not to mention get on the Watch lists of several countries.


It is unknown where he was a professor, but it is know that the degree he falsified was from MIT.

OLIVIA: He's been a wild land fireman, cargo pilot and briefly a college chemistry professor. He falsified a degree from MIT. He even managed to get a few papers published before he was found out.

It certainly is a feat and he is obviously capable in chemistry. (It might be genetic!) However, he did commit felony fraud. No matter how impressive or cool of an accomplishment it was and regardless of how little the school would want the incident publicized in court, the fact is that he still obtained the position under fraudulent terms and the salary of a college professor is such that it would shortly qualify to be a felony.
First, you're assuming Peter taught in the US. Second, Peter's never been arrested. He's only been brought in for "questioning" 7 times. Third, I can't really see Felony Fraud. All Peter did was forge a document to get a job. At most I think the law would have is a case for Forgery. Sad to say, but people lie and forge documents all the time and usually all it gets them is fired. I suspect what happened is that Peter was at a small college, barely noticeable, but when he published papers he gained quite a bit of attention. With his IQ, not to mention his father's surname, I'm sure anything he writes stands out in a crowd.

No matter what, I doubt the University even pressed charges to begin with, and it doesn't appear any prosecutor took the case on its own merits. Nina did say his business practices only bordered on fraud. I think Peter's smart enough to know how far he can take a situation without ending up in jail, even if he's still bending/breaking several laws in the process. He knows Olivia's not going to arrest him for breaking into houses right in front of her when they're on an investigation.


I think that his interactions with Rachel can be seen in this in this light, but this is again personalization of interrogation methods -- it's what Rachel would respond to. I leave it as an exercise for the reader to determine what sort of information he wanted from Rachel and whether it was information he wanted for strictly personal reasons. :)
I don't think his Rachel interactions can be seen as womanizing at all. Nor calculated. Seems to me just what Peter does when his guard is down. Be nice to people. He strikes me as someone who naturally would make friends with everybody - that is, if he hadn't been taught by his father (and later by his mother's suicide) that trusting people sucks.


So, Peter is an operative/government asset/spy and TPTB decide they want him for the Fringe project. So, they purposefully send Olivia and John into a situation where the consequences are that they will need Walter and, hence, Peter.
Olivia was chosen for the Fringe Division for a reason that we have yet to find out. John specifically told her "ask yourself, why did they send you?" John knew a lot about the ZFT, it's possible he knew about Walter and his experiments, even if he didn't know exactly how Walter was involved.


He's not the typical social misfit who can't hold a job. He's pretty focused and seems to gravitate to areas/locations/jobs where his services would be needed.

It can't be for pure personal gain - where's the flashy car? The bottomless bank account? The secret lifestyle of women, champagne, and Vegas that some scam artist out to bilk millions from countries would surround himself with? Why was he in Iraq at first offering his services in construction/architectural/infrastructural planning? Just to get away from it all? He needed a job? To hide? There are better ways of anonymously disappearing into the crowd than getting multi-million dollar contracts.

It makes no sense.
I agree. I get the impression Peter's more mercenary than government. He stands for something, but it's not necessarily what we would generally think of as the "good" side or "right" side (though it's not evil). Just something he feels is wrong, mostly against the true bad guys. I suspect that his crimes are really only against things he perceives as evil. He doesn't steal from good people, per se (ie, he'd have no qualms stealing a painting from someone who got it through criminal means, but he wouldn't steal a painting from an honest owner). The best way I can describe it as I think he'd have no problem working with terrorists if he thought they could further his goals against something that he thought was a bigger threat. I used to suspect he was into bringing Massive Dynamic down, considering how much he knew about the company back in S1.

He just has that activist-feel, only in a much darker and negative way. Ugh, I can't describe it.

[Jabberwock]

The goverment runs the whole FBI & the Fringe Division..

why the need for an extra spy to spy on Olivia Dunham????:confused:

Perhaps it's a different part of the government. The FBI has been part of, or accused of being part of, some under the table type stuff. Perhaps a different part of the government hired Peter to watch and make sure the Fringe Division isn't some kind of creepy Blackwater type operation.

Or perhaps he's been put there by a mercenary cell or some such thing by the government with the instructions to help them when the FBI can't. Hence the numerous connections that frequently get the job done, even when the FBI is unable to, or can't do it fast enough.

[Pocket_Owl]

First, you're assuming Peter taught in the US. Second, Peter's never been arrested. He's only been brought in for "questioning" 7 times. Third, I can't really see Felony Fraud. All Peter did was forge a document to get a job. At most I think the law would have is a case for Forgery. Sad to say, but people lie and forge documents all the time and usually all it gets them is fired. I suspect what happened is that Peter was at a small college, barely noticeable, but when he published papers he gained quite a bit of attention. With his IQ, not to mention his father's surname, I'm sure anything he writes stands out in a crowd.

No matter what, I doubt the University even pressed charges to begin with, and it doesn't appear any prosecutor took the case on its own merits. Nina did say his business practices only bordered on fraud. I think Peter's smart enough to know how far he can take a situation without ending up in jail, even if he's still bending/breaking several laws in the process. He knows Olivia's not going to arrest him for breaking into houses right in front of her when they're on an investigation.

Commission of a crime and arrest or conviction of the crime are two separate things. I was pointing out specifically where he was known to have committed a crime.

The crime in question is definitely "felony fraud". Fraud is intentional deception with gain. Peter deceived the university as to his credentials and gained, if nothing else, his salary. What makes it a felony is the amount of gain, and the amount of money a college professor makes would quickly put him into felony territory, which is often surprisingly low.

This would be true in most locations, as fraud is pretty consistent around the world. Whether or not this would have (if he had been tried or convicted) prevented a Peter/Olivia relationship is beyond my knowledge. Joe, do you know?


I don't think his Rachel interactions can be seen as womanizing at all. Nor calculated. Seems to me just what Peter does when his guard is down. Be nice to people. He strikes me as someone who naturally would make friends with everybody - that is, if he hadn't been taught by his father (and later by his mother's suicide) that trusting people sucks.

I was joking. Imagine Peter drilling Rachel with questions about Olivia: "What was she like as a kid? What's her favorite flower? Give up the answers or else!"



So, Peter is an operative/government asset/spy and TPTB decide they want him for the Fringe project. So, they purposefully send Olivia and John into a situation where the consequences are that they will need Walter and, hence, Peter.

Olivia was chosen for the Fringe Division for a reason that we have yet to find out. John specifically told her "ask yourself, why did they send you?" John knew a lot about the ZFT, it's possible he knew about Walter and his experiments, even if he didn't know exactly how Walter was involved.

Well, yeah. That whole thing was a hypothetical to set up the next question, which is:


So, now they've got Peter, how are they using him as spy without his knowledge?

-- K.

[Joe Curwen]

Commission of a crime and arrest or conviction of the crime are two separate things. I was pointing out specifically where he was known to have committed a crime.

The crime in question is definitely "felony fraud". Fraud is intentional deception with gain. Peter deceived the university as to his credentials and gained, if nothing else, his salary. What makes it a felony is the amount of gain, and the amount of money a college professor makes would quickly put him into felony territory, which is often surprisingly low.

This would be true in most locations, as fraud is pretty consistent around the world. Whether or not this would have (if he had been tried or convicted) prevented a Peter/Olivia relationship is beyond my knowledge. Joe, do you know?

I agree with Quill here. In most cases it is not a crime to lie on your resume or CV. There are some notable exceptions, but to my knowledge "college professor" isn't one of them. Now if he hacked into MIT to place phony transcripts on their servers, they could and would prosecute him for that. But I guess he didn't do anything worse than talking himself into a job at the college and worked there until he got caught and moved on.

If we were dealing with a real FBI agent instead of a TV one, Olivia's bosses might object to her having a relationship with Peter even if he's never been convicted of a crime. It's in a kind of gray area, but I'm pretty sure that they wouldn't allow it. For the show's purposes, it's important that they specified that he's always gotten away with whatever it was that he was doing, leaving the door open for Olivia to have a relationship with him despite his shady past.

--
Joe

[Pocket_Owl]

I agree with Quill here. In most cases it is not a crime to lie on your resume or CV. There are some notable exceptions, but to my knowledge "college professor" isn't one of them. Now if he hacked into MIT to place phony transcripts on their servers, they could and would prosecute him for that. But I guess he didn't do anything worse than talking himself into a job at the college and worked there until he got caught and moved on.

If we were dealing with a real FBI agent instead of a TV one, Olivia's bosses might object to her having a relationship with Peter even if he's never been convicted of a crime. It's in a kind of gray area, but I'm pretty sure that they wouldn't allow it. For the show's purposes, it's important that they specified that he's always gotten away with whatever it was that he was doing, leaving the door open for Olivia to have a relationship with him despite his shady past.

--
Joe

I am flabbergasted by the number of people who don't think this is a crime. To my mind, this is obviously a case of "mala in se". Would someone please explain it to me?

Thanks for the info on the FBI, Joe.


-- K.

[Jabberwock]

I would agree, Pocket. That's got to be some form of fraud; faking a degree from a prestigious college, getting a job dependent on that degree... I agree with you, though I could be wrong. At the very least, it would be forgery, for faking the document.

[Montecito]

ok let's say that it is a fraud.. so what?

who said that peter is a saint?

[Joe Curwen]

I am flabbergasted by the number of people who don't think this is a crime. To my mind, this is obviously a case of "mala in se". Would someone please explain it to me?

Thanks for the info on the FBI, Joe.


-- K.

Malum in se? No, I hope not.

Say I lied to get a job but I performed this job to my employer's complete satisfaction. Who was harmed?

I suspect you will answer me this way: All those who toiled to earn the employer's requested experience and credentials who were denied the opportunity given to a cheat.

On an emotional level, I'm sympathetic to this argument, but it has some pretty dire consequences. It suggests that a "job" is not a private contract between an employer and employee, but a social construct in which it materially belongs to all who qualify or to society. (Malum in se assumes this.) This flies in the face of our cultural and legal traditions and the english common law on which it is based. EEO aside, a company can hire any person without civil harm to the hundred that applied and didn't get the job. This is fundemental to our way of life and would cause great harm to change it. That's why in most cases* the answer to the question above has always been, "No one", and the government has firm limits on regulating and criminalizing any side of hiring process. It's one of those "freedom has a price" things.

--
Joe

*Common exceptions include those specified in law such as faking a medical degree, faking certs to operate certain kinds of dangerous equipment, etc.

[Pocket_Owl]

ok let's say that it is a fraud.. so what?

who said that peter is a saint?

Peter is definitely not a saint!

As far as the original topic of this thread goes -- the question of whether or not this specific instance is fraud is kind of off the subject. So, yes, it doesn't matter. :)

Since we are on this topic, however ...


Malum in se? No, I hope not.

Say I lied to get a job but I performed this job to my employer's complete satisfaction. Who was harmed?

I suspect you will answer me this way: All those who toiled to earn the employer's requested experience and credentials who were denied the opportunity given to a cheat.

On an emotional level, I'm sympathetic to this argument, but it has some pretty dire consequences. It suggests that a "job" is not a private contract between an employer and employee, but a social construct in which it materially belongs to all who qualify or to society. (Malum in se assumes this.) This flies in the face of our cultural and legal traditions and the english common law on which it is based. EEO aside, a company can hire any person without civil harm to the hundred that applied and didn't get the job. This is fundemental to our way of life and would cause great harm to change it. That's why in most cases* the answer to the question above has always been, "No one", and the government has firm limits on regulating and criminalizing any side of hiring process. It's one of those "freedom has a price" things.

--
Joe

*Common exceptions include those specified in law such as faking a medical degree, faking certs to operate certain kinds of dangerous equipment, etc.


The way you suspected I would answer is not the way I will answer. You shouldn't have answered for me; it could have saved you a bunch of time! :)

I absolutely agree with you as to the lack of harm being done to the other prospective employees for the reasons you stated. (Although, I would argue philosophically against the distinction of civil and criminal harm.)

Who is being harmed? Fraud is a property crime and the party whose property is being taken in this case is the university.

You could argue that fraud is not a mala in se crime at all (some do), but you can't have it both ways and say some deception to obtain property is criminal and some isn't. Philosophically, it is no different for Peter to have done a good job after having deceived the university as to his MIT degree, than it would be for me to also do a good job after having deceived a construction company as to my certification to operate a backhoe.


-- K.

[Astrid]

this thread is very interesting! I don't know if Peter is a criminal, maybe a very powerful one, or a spy, or an operative but surely he has lots hidden in his past!
since the first time I had the feeling that Peter was oddly willing to join Fringe team.
isn't it strange for a man who is used to keep moving from one place to another, and never remains in a city for more than a few months, to suddenly change his habits and consent to stay somewhere he never wanted to be, just because an almost unknown woman asked him?

for a man that never visited an insane father he hated, to start taking care of him?

for someone who seemed to have been totally selfish during all his life and who never had strong attachments, to become the most caring and adorable man ever?


this IMO can tell us:
- that he spent most part of his life pretending to be someone he's not (poor Peter I hope not) or maybe simply that he wore the mask of the bad guy but he's not like that and now he's very happy he found a family.

-or that it was his intenction to become a Fringe division's member because this was his assignment, and there's some big stuff we don't know about possibly involving Nina, Massive D. etc...


maybe he has to spy Olivia! or he wants to seduce her to gain her trust but he fell in love with her :confused0066:........(I'm kidding:haha:)


anyway with a 190 QI surely he hiddens something:ninja:

[Pocket_Owl]

since the first time I had the feeling that Peter was oddly willing to join Fringe team.
isn't it strange for a man who is used to keep moving from one place to another, and never remains in a city for more than a few months, to suddenly change his habits and consent to stay somewhere he never wanted to be, just because an almost unknown woman asked him?

for a man that never visited an insane father he hated, to start taking care of him?

for someone who seemed to have been totally selfish during all his life and who never had strong attachments, to become the most caring and adorable man ever?


I had noticed that, too. Also, in "The Arrival", before he's taken he calls up someone to get 'work'. After he gets back, his whole attitude about staying has changed. If he has an assignment to stay there at all, surely it was as a result of that call!

-- K.

[Astrid]

I had noticed that, too. Also, in "The Arrival", before he's taken he calls up someone to get 'work'. After he gets back, his whole attitude about staying has changed. If he has an assignment to stay there at all, surely it was as a result of that call!

-- K.


really??? I don't remember at all!!! wow! I have to rewatch The Arrival as soon as possible!!!

[Jabberwock]

I know what he is!>D

CIA, Special Activities Division. I was looking for something that fit, and this does.

The Special Activities Division is part of both the CIA and the NCS. It deals in black ops and things that the government is allowed to deny knowledge of; knowing use of propaganda, assassination, sabotage, extortion, kidnapping, torture, going into foreign countries to get intelligence.

It would explain why Peter would travel everywhere.

It would explain why he said he'd been on "Both sides of the table", he'd both interrogated and been interrogated due to his operative status.

It would explain why, when Walter subtly criticized his "nomadic" existence, Peter got so angry. It wasn't just on principle, or because Walter'd been in the ward the whole time. He was indignant.

I watched a few sneaky episodes with the idea that he was or is an operative in mind, and it seemed to fit.

Just... Think about it.

[Jabberwock]

I know what he is!>D

CIA, Special Activities Division. I was looking for something that fit, and this does.

The Special Activities Division is part of both the CIA and the NCS. It deals in black ops and things that the government is allowed to deny knowledge of; knowing use of propaganda, assassination, sabotage, extortion, kidnapping, torture, going into foreign countries to get intelligence.

It would explain why Peter would travel everywhere.

It would explain why he said he'd been on "Both sides of the table", he'd both interrogated and been interrogated due to his operative status.

It would explain why, when Walter subtly criticized his "nomadic" existence, Peter got so angry. It wasn't just on principle, or because Walter'd been in the ward the whole time. He was indignant.

I watched a few sneaky episodes with the idea that he was or is an operative in mind, and it seemed to fit.

Just... Think about it.

[jessystorm]

I know what he is!>D

CIA, Special Activities Division. I was looking for something that fit, and this does.


You know this is a really interesting theory...and i could see that happening on the show. I've read part of the comic regarding Peter and his friend Ahmed was a CIA agent so..it's not so out of mind thinking that Peter worked for them in the past in some ways. I don't think he was really an agent and he was a nomad for that..maybe he became a nomad first, then he knew some CIA agents that offered him a sort of job like being an informer and a mole for them or something like that..this could also explain why he was so worried when Olivia mentioned the file that the government had on him..because probably that file exists and it could have been blow out his cover...

Yeah it could make sense ;)