Peter Bishop and his storyline... [Archive] - Fringe-Forum Fox TV Series Message Boards

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Rebe

05-20-2010, 10:00 PM

Obyron

05-20-2010, 10:00 PM

Meh, he got an entire season all about him and his journey of self-discovery or whatever. Peter fans can be a little bit annoying. :)

FringeBinge

05-20-2010, 10:02 PM

Rook

05-20-2010, 10:03 PM

I think they care about Peter. They had a whole episode dedicated to him. This whole second have of the season's been dedicated to him. And I don't think they've thrown it away about him ending the world. I don't think we've seen the last of that machine.

empty_encounters

05-20-2010, 10:10 PM

All of the Peter fans here seem to have the least appreciation for... well, Peter.

He figured out that the 'healing device' is a weapon against our side. He also sort of inferred Walternate wanted him to end his life to use it and never intended to tell him he would die too.

Peter makes the most powerful and impactful emotional decisions. That makes him as vital a character as Walter who remembers the answers or Olivia who leads the charge.

Also, I consider the end of this season opening up for a more Peter centered storyline than based on Olivia. Altlivia too, will be like Shapeshifter Charlie, only with limited time and a straightforward mission.

And how could season three start centered around Olivia? I don't think she can escape alterverse prison as easily as Loeb's lab. All Olivia has is that little cell and Walternate's interrogations I'm sure, until Peter comes to rescue her, with guns blazing.

Rebe

05-20-2010, 10:13 PM

I agree with those points but I really wanted Peter to be the cliffhanger. Peter always tend to react to whatever mess Walter and Olivia get into. Why can't we see peter get himself into a mess? Why couldn't it be peter in that cell?

I'm just upset that all we got out of it was a kiss

empty_encounters

05-20-2010, 10:21 PM

Why couldn't it be peter in that cell?

Here's my theory.

I suspect there is more to Walternate's machine than flesh touching metal. It needs more than just DNA, otherwise Walter would take a drop of Peter's blood in a vial and use it.

I think it needed to be willed with psychic energy. And I honestly don't think Walter would have left Peter to figure it out, so deliberately. Why not just tell him "Get in, son, this is to stabilize your atoms after your journey." Surely a believable lie.

No, it requires a will. Just like crossing over by Cortexiphan psychic energy requires a will. Walternate can't use the weapon now. He can't drag Peter to the machine again, not now.

So Olivia is the appropriate prisoner. She crossed over, how? That's what Walternate wants to know. Imagine if Bell informed Walternate of Cortexiphan theory to gain his trust. Think of how brilliant Walternate is. He wants answers. That's why he kept Olivia instead of shooting her. She is the key to his crossing over.

LovinSha

05-20-2010, 10:21 PM

I doubt we've seen the last of that device and the use of Peter to destroy the universe.

empty_encounters

05-20-2010, 10:21 PM

I'm just upset that all we got out of it was a kiss

Can't show the next step on TV. :P

empty_encounters

05-20-2010, 10:23 PM

I doubt we've seen the last of that device and the use of Peter to destroy the universe.

I doubted we'd see the last of Jones and ZFT. Hell, I think the shapeshifters purpose is fulfilled now. Which saddens me, Newton is a wonderful character.

FringeBinge

05-20-2010, 10:25 PM

I doubted we'd see the last of Jones and ZFT. Hell, I think the shapeshifters purpose is fulfilled now. Which saddens me, Newton is a wonderful character.

I'm still hoping alter-Jones shows up at some point :hope:

theprideofalion

05-20-2010, 10:29 PM

Here's my theory.

I suspect there is more to Walternate's machine than flesh touching metal. It needs more than just DNA, otherwise Walter would take a drop of Peter's blood in a vial and use it.

I think it needed to be willed with psychic energy. And I honestly don't think Walter would have left Peter to figure it out, so deliberately. Why not just tell him "Get in, son, this is to stabilize your atoms after your journey." Surely a believable lie.

No, it requires a will. Just like crossing over by Cortexiphan psychic energy requires a will. Walternate can't use the weapon now. He can't drag Peter to the machine again, not now.

So Olivia is the appropriate prisoner. She crossed over, how? That's what Walternate wants to know. Imagine if Bell informed Walternate of Cortexiphan theory to gain his trust. Think of how brilliant Walternate is. He wants answers. That's why he kept Olivia instead of shooting her. She is the key to his crossing over.

Only thing is that Walternate has already crossed over, which we have seen. The rest of your points, I like.

Quill

05-21-2010, 02:08 AM

Ph8

05-21-2010, 02:19 AM

Meh, he got an entire season all about him and his journey of self-discovery or whatever. Peter fans can be a little bit annoying. :)

LOL, Seeing this I was thinking the same think. I like the Peter character and all, but........:ninja:

Patience...
The end of the world machine will come back into play at some point and Peter will have plenty more moments next season.

^^^ This....The show is purposely written to answer some questions that will lead to more questions.....If this was a series finale, maybe we would ahve more answers, but this is a season finale...Take a step back and all you are seeing is a small piece to a bigger puzzle....

Quill

05-21-2010, 02:22 AM

Take a step back and all you are seeing is a small piece to a bigger puzzle....
Try again. Take a step back and all you see is a big piece in the bigger puzzle that's only been used as a small piece in said puzzle. Aside from the obvious as to what *might* happen, the pattern is exceptionally clear when you look over what HAS actually happened.

After 2 seasons, one would think for a LEAD character, you wouldn't need others to condescendingly placate "oh, just wait until next season, I'm sure it will get better."

Meh, he got an entire season all about him and his journey of self-discovery or whatever. Peter fans can be a little bit annoying. :)
Wow, did that never happen. Any "journey" that Peter's gone through this season has been entirely background, with the exclusion of Northwest Passage - and to a lesser degree Fracture. He's completely played background to Walter and Olivia. Only 2 episodes directly focused on his character. Everywhere else he's been secondary in terms of airtime and show/writer focus. Even the storylines that are supposed to be *about* him have in reality been given to Walter and Olivia. We see their POV on everything, not Peter's. The only thing he's basically done this season is be Walter's babysitter - which is a job that apparently even Astrid can do now, making Peter even more obsolete.

petersbro

05-21-2010, 03:06 AM

i do agree with those of you who say that peter's role in the show has been more secondary. That become all too obvious in the finale. If anything, the writers have turned Peter into someone who doesn't belong anywhere when I think he, and Josh, have so much potential. I hope he goes back, as someone said, with guns blazing. Its only appropriate since he only came back because Olivia said he should be with her. Let's see.

Joanna

05-21-2010, 07:02 AM

All of the Peter fans here seem to have the least appreciation for... well, Peter.

He figured out that the 'healing device' is a weapon against our side. He also sort of inferred Walternate wanted him to end his life to use it and never intended to tell him he would die too.

Peter makes the most powerful and impactful emotional decisions. That makes him as vital a character as Walter who remembers the answers or Olivia who leads the charge.

Hey, I feel insulted ;). I've been Peter fan since episode 1 and just like you I don't understand it. I think Peter is such a cool and entertaining character just the way he is and I don't feel that adding any additional significance to him is really that necessary. Doesn't the fact that he is the most loved person on this show by all the other characters mean anything? I think it is huge and I'm really not complaining :)

But hey, a right to rant at times is every faithful fan's privilege, right? ;)

Obyron

05-21-2010, 07:08 AM

Wow, did that never happen. Any "journey" that Peter's gone through this season has been entirely background, with the exclusion of Northwest Passage - and to a lesser degree Fracture. He's completely played background to Walter and Olivia. Only 2 episodes directly focused on his character. Everywhere else he's been secondary in terms of airtime and show/writer focus. Even the storylines that are supposed to be *about* him have in reality been given to Walter and Olivia. We see their POV on everything, not Peter's. The only thing he's basically done this season is be Walter's babysitter - which is a job that apparently even Astrid can do now, making Peter even more obsolete.

Eh. I don't see it that way, and even if it is that way I don't care. I was annoyed when they renewed the show a year ago when we heard that this season was going to be about Peter finding out the truth about himself. I get that it had to happen, but I was irritated, because they were going to waste an entire season of the show to have a character figure out something that we already know.

Romeo and Juliet uses a similarly big dose of dramatic irony, and they manage to work it all out in the end in the span of about half an hour. And thankfully so, because it gets it out in a dramatically appropriate way, but doesn't clutter up the narrative. I was pretty happy with Peter's reveal. I felt it had been lampshaded for a while now, and there were a ton of clues in the episode leading up to it.

Nothing happens from his POV? The entire show is about him. We are constantly bombarded with how important Peter is, and how the AU wants Peter back, and how Peter is going to cause the end of the world, and how Walter must remember that the Observers told him not to let Peter return to the Alternate Universe, and blah blah. I'm actually a little sick of hearing about Peter. :)

Rebe

05-21-2010, 07:13 AM

Doesn't the fact that he is the most loved person on this show by all the other characters mean anything? I think it is huge and I'm really not complaining

I don't feel that adding any additional significance to him is really that necessary

But he will be an interesting character if we find out what makes him so special. They keep building about how "Peter must live", "Peter will be responsible for the end of the world", "Peter is significant" just to throw it all away.

I don't think it really matters that the other characters care about him. it would be nice for the audience to see why Peter is special. Right now, all peter is nothing more than Olivia's cute partner and Walter's son. He serves no greater purpose than that.

This is the season finale, we should have bigger reveals about the characters not just Olivia. Yeah, Peter got a kiss. That's all.

The entire show is about him. We are constantly bombarded with how important Peter is, and how the AU wants Peter back, and how Peter is going to cause the end of the world, and how Walter must remember that the Observers told him not to let Peter return to the Alternate Universe, and blah blah

But the show ended with olivia being trapped in the alternate universe and Alt Olivia taking her place while all Peter got was a kiss and was taken to our world without any struggle which seems to me Peter's role will be just to bring Olivia back in season 3.

Obyron

05-21-2010, 07:37 AM

The P/O kiss is a pretty big deal. They've been building that for a while now.

Peter's role will be to help bring Olivia back... for all of about 3 episodes until that plot thread is tied up, and they're ready to get on with the show. Fringe has already done a body double plot with Shapeshifter Charlie, and I'd really like to think they're not going to torture us with that again. The rest of the season will likely be about Alter Walter trying to get Peter back so he can power the doomsday machine, and I'm sure along the way we'll find out why it's just him that can power it. I'm guessing it has something to do with Peter's genetic disease as a child.

I thought revealing to Peter that his true father who supposedly wanted him back because he loves him, mainly wants to use him to destroy an entire universe. That seemed like kind of a big deal to me.

Rebe

05-21-2010, 07:41 AM

I think Olivia being trapped in the alternate universe while Alt Olivia has taken her place is getting more attention than anything Peter did in this episode. I disagree that this season is all about Peter. Walter and Olivia were the ones getting the attention. Think about it, everywhere I go, its always "Poor Walter", "poor Olivia", "oh how can peter be with his mother having a grand ole time while Olivia risks her life to save his" but nobody ever says, "oh poor Peter".

The writers did a good job on making Walter and olivia sympathetic characters while Peter is still cold-hearted and unemotional.

Obyron

05-21-2010, 07:50 AM

The last 9 episodes-- that is, the only place in the series they can be bothered to do anything really important-- are all about Peter's story. Even the seeming exceptions (White Tulip and Brown Betty) are just metaphors for Peter's story.

Joanna

05-21-2010, 07:58 AM

But he will be an interesting character if we find out what makes him so special. They keep building about how "Peter must live", "Peter will be responsible for the end of the world", "Peter is significant" just to throw it all away.

I don't think it really matters that the other characters care about him. it would be nice for the audience to see why Peter is special. Right now, all peter is nothing more than Olivia's cute partner and Walter's son. He serves no greater purpose than that.

This is the season finale, we should have bigger reveals about the characters not just Olivia. Yeah, Peter got a kiss. That's all.

But the show ended with olivia being trapped in the alternate universe and Alt Olivia taking her place while all Peter got was a kiss and was taken to our world without any struggle which seems to me Peter's role will be just to bring Olivia back in season 3.

I just think that what makes the characters special is their choices and not some added abilities or external circumstances beyond their control. That's why Olivia is awesome (to me) - because she chose who she wanted to be and has the courage to make this choice all over again every day, not because of her Cortexiphan-induced abilities.

I agree with you, however that this whole thing about Peter's significance ought to be explained. In "Peter" it was obvious from the scene with the Observers that he was important before Walter even thought of crossing to the other side. I'm curious about that too.

jade86

05-21-2010, 08:28 AM

Rebe

05-21-2010, 08:33 AM

Well, I am expecting Peter's role to be more than Olivia's boyfriend/partner/savior. It cheapens his character. He is just there to save Olivia. he serves no other purpose on this show.

Ph8

05-21-2010, 09:04 AM

But he will be an interesting character if we find out what makes him so special. They keep building about how "Peter must live", "Peter will be responsible for the end of the world", "Peter is significant" just to throw it all away.

I don't think it really matters that the other characters care about him. it would be nice for the audience to see why Peter is special. Right now, all peter is nothing more than Olivia's cute partner and Walter's son. He serves no greater purpose than that.

This is the season finale, we should have bigger reveals about the characters not just Olivia. Yeah, Peter got a kiss. That's all.

But the show ended with olivia being trapped in the alternate universe and Alt Olivia taking her place while all Peter got was a kiss and was taken to our world without any struggle which seems to me Peter's role will be just to bring Olivia back in season 3.

Without any struggle? Now thats something that I cant agree with....Olivia dispatched two agents hand to hand combat...The group then fought off a small detachment of SWAT\Officers eventually stopping them with a big grenade (massive destruction)...I dont think you can say it was without a struggle at all..

You keep talking like the Peter angle is over with and that they have shown all they are going to show about Peter. Why is Peter special\signifigant? the fact that he is the ONLY person alive that can power the device that destroys universes, I'd say thats pretty signifigant...Hmmm Peter not only finally kissed Oliva, but he also made the decision to save our universe by coming back. Not only that but he met his birth parents and learned a little about the world he is from.

Everyone wants answers to everything now, its just not going to happen...The reveals will come, just be patient and let the story play out...Peter is still a VERY important part of the show and still a "threat" to both universes....

jade86

05-21-2010, 10:48 AM

Without any struggle? Now thats something that I cant agree with....Olivia dispatched two agents hand to hand combat...The group then fought off a small detachment of SWATOfficers eventually stopping them with a big grenade (massive destruction)...I dont think you can say it was without a struggle at all..

You keep talking like the Peter angle is over with and that they have shown all they are going to show about Peter. Why is Peter specialsignifigant? the fact that he is the ONLY person alive that can power the device that destroys universes, I'd say thats pretty signifigant...Hmmm Peter not only finally kissed Oliva, but he also made the decision to save our universe by coming back. Not only that but he met his birth parents and learned a little about the world he is from.

Everyone wants answers to everything now, its just not going to happen...The reveals will come, just be patient and let the story play out...Peter is still a VERY important part of the show and still a "threat" to both universes....

You're absolutely right about Peter! Can i erect a statue for you? :D

MissKate

05-21-2010, 12:32 PM

Interesting thread.

What I have heard, basically, from those saying that there is not enough Peter "storyline" or "character background" is actually that there is not enough Josh Jackson screentime. This may or may not be the case.

When you want a TV show to go 6 seasons (cough *Lost* cough) you do not make the big reveals about background in Season 2. You don't. You give enough reveals to make things more interesting and to ask more questions because you want people to want to come back for the answers.

Sure, we know a bit about Broyles background--and I have no more questions about it at all. Done deal. Nice. Let's move on. I actually know more facts about Peter's background--think about it, we all do--but sometimes characters get written in such a way that they need to have lots of flexibility in case the writers want to go in a different direction (cough *Bell* cough). And that's what Peter-as-character is presently suffering from.

I haven't heard Josh Jackson complaining about his screentime or his story line. I've only heard how cool the show is from him. And let's face facts--the whole show really *is* about Peter, from beginning to end, and will be.

I am disappointed about the machine, too--except that I know we're not done with it at all. I mean, we might be, because not everything has a significance--sometimes a cigar is just a cigar--but I don't think so. I think that our Olivia will be programmed into that machine, people--what better way to exact revenge on the son who rejected you than using his genetically hopped-up true friend to end the world?

I also find it extremely interesting that in Earth2, Peter was closer to his mother. Here, he was and is closer to Walter, and as I've said elsewhere, Walter loved Peter enough to have himself committed and brain damaged. What does this say about Peter, about Walter, about Walternate, about both sets of mothers?

Rebe

05-21-2010, 12:36 PM

I think that our Olivia will be programmed into that machine, people--what better way to exact revenge on the son who rejected you than using his genetically hopped-up true friend to end the world?

No, no, no, again I will say it no! We already know for 2 years how special Olivia is, its time Peter gets something huge and buzz worthy. Olivia and Walter get enough attention as it is.

Joe Curwen

05-21-2010, 12:39 PM

its like the writers just do not care about peter as a character. Its really upsetting.

Just read through this thread. I can see both sides of the argument.

To say that this season has been "all about Peter" is misguided. It's like saying the movie "Saving Private Ryan" is all about Private Ryan. The truth is, Peter has mostly been used as a mcguffin. He is important in as much as he is someone's beloved son, love interest or biological power source. He is the reason the main characters are running around doing stuff, but isn't very important otherwise. This explains why we've been given so little of his backstory or spent so little time exploring his inner life, or his needs and motivations. They aren't important.

On the other hand, I prefer that the show focus squarely on Olivia. It's what I loved about Season 1. Peter can't be both a fully rounded character *and* be the cause of all the action without fully and completely taking over the show. I don't want that, so I'm more than willing to be patient in having more of his character explored over time.

--
Joe

Rebe

05-21-2010, 12:44 PM

Joe Curwen

05-21-2010, 12:56 PM

Oh but Walter and Olivia's backstory is important? Fine, maybe I should just stop caring about peter and care more about Walter and Olivia since their feelings are more important than Peter's.

Sorry Rebe, please don't misunderstand me. I'm not trying to tell you what you ought to care about. I'm trying to put myself into the producers' shoes, and make a guess about their priorities and their story. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm right, it's only my opinion. Regardless, people in your predicament have an outlet for frustration: fanfiction.

--
Joe

FlyingSpaghettiMonster

05-21-2010, 01:25 PM

Now, season 3 will be all in Peter's hands! He'll find out that our Olivia is in danger and will return to the other side to save her! This finale lived us other clues about him that will be developed next season, i'm sure! ;)

So is this the story behind the story we got from Brown Betty where Peter pulled Olivia from the sinking box??

jade86

05-21-2010, 01:30 PM

So is this the story behind the story we got from Brown Betty where Peter pulled Olivia from the sinking box??

It's possible! :)

Obyron

05-21-2010, 01:48 PM

So if Peter's backstory is not important then why is he even on this show? Why bother bringing forward this "Peter being from the alternate universe" thing if Peter is not important nor his feelings are important?

This is what I am talking about, it seems the audience always undermine the peter character as if he is not important. So maybe if they gave Peter his big moment in the season 2 finale, that will lessen people undermining him but I am wrong. Peter is the most unappreciated character on this show.

Because nothing we can say is going to change your mind, and because we're going in circles... What would make you happy? You've said before that you think Peter should have been the one to be kidnapped and kept in the AU. How would this elevate him beyond simply being the McGuffin (as an earlier poster mentioned) to give the other characters something to do? "Bad stuff happens to you" is not the same as prominence in a show, nor is it a substitute for character development. I'm curious as to what you think it would solve.

Frankly we know pretty much everything interesting about Peter's back story. I'd rather see almost anyone but Peter get screen time, like Astrid, Broyles, Brandon from MD, or the agent that gets their coffee for them.

Rebe

05-21-2010, 02:00 PM

You know Obyron, you may not care about peter but I do. I want to see Peter be more than the audience sets him out to be, an underwritten character whose job is to babysit Walter and be Olivia's love interest.

Well, sometimes seeing something bad happen to Peter will certainly get people talking and it would give Josh a chance to show his acting skills that has been overlooked by everyone for the last 2 years.

MissKate

05-21-2010, 03:48 PM

Touchy, people, touchy! Wow! I'm going to have to respectfully disagree about some things.

Rebe, my comment about putting Olivia into the machine is NOT about showing that she's special at all. I think I would ask you why Peter has to be more special than he already is, since:

1. the Observers have talked about Peter since he was a little boy
2. universes have collided in the interest of saving his life
3. He's got an IQ of 191
4. He can do just about everything that's asked of him--including resist mind control.
5. Why does Nina Sharp worship the ground he deigns to walk on? Because she knows--like the rest of us do--that Peter is extraordinary, plain and simple.
6. Nearly everything Olivia has done that is "special"--except see things from the "Other Side"--has never been her alone. I have always presumed that Peter had something to do with her solving the problem left for her by Jones.
7. A lot of people want to know more about Peter. Isn't that a good thing? It means the writers and certainly the actors are doing their job. What's the fun in knowing everything now?

In fact, there is damn little that's pedantic about Peter, and I'm convinced that there is so much more there--and I don't want it slammed at me. I want it to unfold.

Like it or not (and you seem not to), this show lists Anna Torv first in the opening credits because she is the protagonist of the show. This show is about her and her team, not Peter and his. And if Olivia could talk independently of the writers, the first thing she would say is that Peter is just as important as Walter on the team. But it still is her team, her journey with us--a journey in which Peter seems to be both impetus and goal.

At the end of Season 2 of Lost, many went by the wayside because the storytelling sucked. They didn't know what the hell they were doing, and if you ask Team Darlton, they will tell you that they didn't know what they were doing or where they were going. This is not the case with Fringe... now we have a mythology in which Peter is the centerpiece. And they have a plan.

All this means is that there is more story to tell, and quite frankly I like things set up and drawn out and getting it piecemeal, even as I hate it because I want to know now and see the actors put on their best NOW. But I'm glad I don't write Fringe, because I would end up messing everything up and getting a show I love cancelled.

Jabberwock

05-21-2010, 03:56 PM

While the story line may have been about Peter, Peter got woefully little screen time, even when the episode was about him. It was about Peter, but about Walter's reaction, or Olivia's reaction. Hell, even ASTRID'S reaction.

I agree with you, Rebe. Peter has been given so much potential, yet even when things seem to be about him, it's more about the rest of the team's reactions to his importance or his leaving. We don't get a feel for how HE reacted. What did he do between Massachusetts and Washington?

The story line may be about him, but we haven't seen his reaction to this fact. We've only seen Walter and Olivia's reactions. Hell, we've seen more of Nina's reaction to the news than Peter.

Rebe

05-21-2010, 04:02 PM

I am fully aware Olivia is the lead. Josh is also one of the male leads, too. he deserves something or people will keep criticizing him.

Jabberwock

05-21-2010, 04:03 PM

I thought she was a lead. Like... She, Peter and Walter all kind of shared the lead-hood...

chamelean75

05-21-2010, 05:15 PM

I think it's great that Olivia is the "super hero". Before Fringe, I have yet to see an action show that has an intriguing story with a female lead. No, I do not like Buffy or Xena or Charmed. I like how they portray Olivia as sharp and smart and vulnerable but she doesn't always save the day. I guess I sort of like how she is a, "team player". Actually, I would say that Walter and Olivia are the main characters here, they have about the same amount of screen time.

I think what I like most is that she doesn't let people push her around. Even though I think that, "you belong with me quote" was a bit out of character for her character in the last episode, I can live with it. It's nice to see her finally branching out from her job. Maybe she can finally live a little.

Quill

05-21-2010, 05:15 PM

Peter is already interesting. The problem is he rarely gets any focus or airtime, not even in storylines that are directly about him. All the characters talk about Peter (esp his reaction, importance, etc), but we never SEE Peter (esp his reaction, importance, etc). Instead we get Walter's delusions of musicals, Olivia's angst about whether or not she should tell him, Walternate's plans for using his son, Olivia's complete inability to do everything due to the Cortexiphan trials, Walter's letter writings that go to nowhere, etc etc.

It's shocking that Peter's background in his own storyline, and Josh's airtime is so limited. Particularly for a lead. If Peter's in a scene at all, it's mostly as a reactionary character. Rarely the focus. It's ridiculous. Out of this entire season, Peter's been the main focus of only 2 episodes. He's been completely shunted these last 8. Finally getting an episode that's JOSH-centric shouldn't be like finally getting a Broyles or Astrid-centric episode. Josh is a lead.

So if Peter's backstory is not important then why is he even on this show? Why bother bringing forward this "Peter being from the alternate universe" thing if Peter is not important nor his feelings are important?
Exactly. He's practically Fringe's version of Cheer's Vera. Talked about a ton, a huge deal to Norm, developed character no less, but never seen.

Peter may be important to the fictional story, but he's not been shown to be important on the reality of the show. There's a vast difference. Joshua Jackson is the male lead, and he's being treated job-wise as if he's equal to or lower than Blair Brown. I've even seen news articles wondering if Josh might get fed up with the lack of attention to him and whether or not he'd decide to leave. It's not like a lot of people wouldn't blame him. Josh is so under-used on Fringe it's ridiculous, and he *was* hired to co-lead. That's not what's happening any more.

Peter is pretty much relegated to the Mauraders status in Harry Potter on Fringe, when he's actually a Ron or Hermione.

Rebe

05-21-2010, 05:34 PM

Thanks, Quill. it seems you and I are the only ones who care about peter and care about how the writers treat him.

Quill

05-21-2010, 05:36 PM

Thanks, Quill. it seems you and I are the only ones who care about peter and care about how the writers treat him.
Oh no, we're not the only ones. Not by a long shot. Like I said, I've seen this addressed in news articles by reviewers, and I've read a ton of comments mentioning this very same Josh/Peter lack-of-attention-by-writers situation.

And it's ironic, too. JJ Abrams is on record as acknowledging the audience took forever to warm to Anna's character, and she's the MAIN lead and the MAIN focus of the show. Fringe is pretty much all Olivia's POV. But they needed Josh and John to keep people tuning in, because Anna wasn't cutting it.

Jabberwock

05-21-2010, 05:49 PM

D: I care...

So this is what it's like to be ignored... It's oddly unsettling...

Quill

05-21-2010, 05:54 PM

D: I care...
Then I shall give you a hug. :hug:

Rebe

05-21-2010, 05:59 PM

I'm sorry Jabberwock. I didn't mean to leave you out.

BTW, being a lead is no different than being captain of a team. Everyone works together and show each other's strengths and weaknesses, emphasis on the "strengths". I think that if the writers showed everyone's strengths.

BTW, Buffy was the lead of her own show but Willow and Xander had a lot of character development, relationships and even had thier own moments.
You would consider Prue to be the lead since she was in fact the oldest sister and the most powerful but the writers also gave Piper and Phoebe their own abilties and storylines.

so no, just because Olivia is the lead, doesn't mean Peter should be table scraps.

Quill

05-21-2010, 06:02 PM

BTW, Buffy was the lead of her own show but Willow and Xander had a lot of character development, relationships and even had thier own moments.

You would consider Prue to be the lead since she was in fact the oldest sister and the most powerful but the writers also gave Piper and Phoebe their own abilties and storylines.
Excellent examples, especially the Charmed one.

Joe Curwen

05-21-2010, 06:16 PM

Excellent examples, especially the Charmed one.

The example would actually have been apt if Peter had been compared to Dawn from Buffy S5.

--
Joe

martisco

05-21-2010, 09:46 PM

Joanna

05-21-2010, 11:11 PM

Joanna

05-21-2010, 11:14 PM

Thanks, Quill. it seems you and I are the only ones who care about peter and care about how the writers treat him.

Frankly, I think it is neither fair nor nice to state that if someone doesn't share your opinion it means they don't care :o

Utnogrl

05-21-2010, 11:23 PM

I am fully aware Olivia is the lead. Josh is also one of the male leads, too. he deserves something or people will keep criticizing him.

Sorry...but Josh Jackson and John Noble fall under supporting actors. Only Anna Torv qualifies as a lead. If you want to re-arrange the Screen Actor's Guild rules and the entire Emmy awards, then go right ahead.

I bet if you got to talk to the creators and writers of the show about your beef, you would still be so pissed and call them "wrong", stupid or wasteful about how they want to work with Peter. My God, it's a show and they are in charge. If it upsets you so much, perhaps submit ideas and a new script for the writers to follow.

Josh Jackson has grown and fleshed out as an actor so much on this show. He's the most enthusiastic in the cast about HIS character and the show's progress. I love Peter's character as it is. You want some action-type stuff to make him out to be some vigilante. Apparently, that's not the direction the writers of the show want to go. It's o.k. to complain, but it's like you're taking this personally, like Josh is your lover or kid that you worship. It's t.v. CHILLAX.

Nothing we say will change your mind, though. This is an interesting thread to say the least :confused0006:

This, "No, no, no, I do not accept it!!!" Is kinda silly. It's not a decision about world peace or government, it's a television show. In fact, this gives me an idea about a play to write :confused0006:

My advice: Write the writers of the show and give them your imput. Seriously, they just may respond to you. Then report to us. That would be awesome! :happy15:

RETLAW

05-22-2010, 12:18 AM

No, no, no, again I will say it no! We already know for 2 years how special Olivia is, its time Peter gets something huge and buzz worthy. Olivia and Walter get enough attention as it is.

Like being the most important character, the "chosen" one?

The whole scheme of events on this show take place because of Peter. Liek alt-Liv said he''s essentailly famous on the alt-side. Peter's the reason everyone crossed over - to save him and the universe.

The observers call him "special" and have altered the course of reality to keep him alive. Walter and Liv's actions revolve around Peter. How much more important can a character get??

The whole show has become Peter-centric. Of course, more of him being "special" will surely be dealt with and is slowly unravelling. This is only season 2 after all.

Josh has a very subtle acting style (which I think is great) and his character is laid-back, which may contribute to some of this sentiment, but being the freakin' chosen one, of great interest to the powers that be is certainly huge.

I am especially interested with the observer's interest in him and his true origins.

jade86

05-22-2010, 12:49 AM

I am especially interested with the observer's interest in him and his true origins.

Yeah, the observers. I hope season 3 will develope those characters and why they take care interest in Peter so much! It's intriguing, isn't it? :)

isabelsweet

05-22-2010, 04:07 AM

I think the writers are doing a very good job with peter!!!

They keep the story of him shrouded in mistery so is more intriguing for us trying to understand why he is special and his connection with the machine, the observers...

I believe we have time to discover all his background but I like better step by step not everything in one episode...we have an entire season 3 for understand better the situation...and I think that the show is putting all the 3 characters in the same level, they are all connected to each other and it's wonderful to see how their releshionships grow up every episode.:happy15:

yvaine

05-22-2010, 04:44 AM

I recall that the producers said early on in the show that the series really is about Olivia. Don't kill me -- if you look at my profile, it lists Peter as my favorite character, too, but I've come to accept this premise. :)

I have to respectfully disagree with the "nothing bad happens to Peter" statement. IMHO, being kidnapped and brought to another universe when you were a kid, being lied to, having a father like Walter, having some weird disease that had no cure -- these are all very bad things that don't even come close to what happened to Olivia.

I do agree that the writers tend to fail in some aspects at developing the storylines that they've laid out for Peter's character. But getting him locked up at the end of the finale to give more focus on Peter rather than Olivia -- I don't believe this is something that's in line with the threads they've already laid out before.

Again, Peter is my favorite character, too. But I believe the writers are keeping this pace for a reason, and that they have awesome things planned for his character. :)

tv_maniac

05-22-2010, 04:58 AM

Why did they give us something as huge as Peter ending the world just to throw it all away? Not to mention, why can't the writers just tell us what makes Peter special already? It was all for nothing. I mean, why must everything be about Olivia? Now that she's kidnapped by Walternate, they will spend some time on peter finding Olivia. I was intrigued by the
metal clinging onto Peter and how the machine activated when he touched it but that was all for nothing. They didn't spend more time on that at all

I liked this:
BELL: You're holding up better than I would have thought.
PETER: What's a little universe hopping between friends?
BELL: That's not what I meant.

I thought that was great, maybe this will be built on a bit?
The machine, I'm sure will come into play more, they bigged it up, Walternate is just as motivated and committed as our Walter, so I don't think he'll back down on something he spent his entire life working on.

Meh, he got an entire season all about him and his journey of self-discovery or whatever. Peter fans can be a little bit annoying. :)

By the same yardstick, so can Olivia fans :haha: I hate complaints she got nothing to do this season. She got lots of development, and the entire of season 1, too. I do love her, but I love the other characters too, they should all get equal development

Rebe

05-22-2010, 06:27 AM

Peter is a character who plays his cards close to the vest. If one is unable to enjoy Joshua Jackson's very subtle and always interesting performance, and instead wants to see him cry, overemote and do "Emmy" things, I'm sure Dawson's Creek is available on DVD.

See, this is why I really want something big to happen to Peter. I want to see people say, "what a great actor Josh is" or "Josh deserves an emmy for his performance".

I just think some people don't care much about subtle, understated acting.

So, I think if the writers gave Josh more emmy-worthy material, maybe people will notice Josh more.

I think what Josh does on this show is always overlooked. Well, Josh doesn't mind that since he and Josh share a great bond and that's fine but as a fan, I find it not really fair.

Frankly, I think it is neither fair nor nice to state that if someone doesn't share your opinion it means they don't care

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend you. I just think some people don't understand what its like to have their favorite character pushed into the background while other characters get to do more stuff. Again, I apologize.

Joanna

05-22-2010, 07:44 AM

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend you. I just think some people don't understand what its like to have their favorite character pushed into the background while other characters get to do more stuff. Again, I apologize.

I'm sorry Rebe you feel this way about Peter's character :(. I remember how upset I was in season 1, especially in the bginning when all he got was some one-liners and rdicilously little screen time. But this season everything has changed and I've learnt to really appreciate the time and stories the writers devote to him. We've had Peter the kickass, the scientist, the caring son, the refuge, the detective, the love interest, the bomb engine and many many more. All those roles complement each other and are accompanied by consistent character development.

I understand what you're getting at - you want Peter to do something big. I don't feel this way - I fell that he is an amazing charcter in everything he does, in all the small things that make for his character and storyline. Now I'm not saying this to argue that my perspective is better than yours - I'm just saying that maybe, just maybe, the writers feel about him the way I do - they don't neglect him or push him aside but they think that he doesn't need enhancing.

How is he sidelined if he is most important to every character on this show? I don't think it is easy to portray such a character in a manner convincing to the viewer. I've seen on many shows situations were actors were unable to pull it off. Josh does and everyone knows it and the writers know it too, as evidenced by the storyline they choose. And I don't think he needs to be defended because his talent defends itself. Just take some opinions read on the internet with a pinch of salt - those who criticise always scream the loudest, this is why we get an impression that there are many of them.

So don't worry, we are in for a wondeful ride and the whole story with Walternate and the weapon has only begun :)

Jabberwock

05-22-2010, 07:58 AM

Like it's been said before. We hear about Peter, but we don't see Peter. There haven't been episodes centralized around him in the present day. No episodes about his past. Even in "Over There" he did woefully little. The things that attracted him to us (his strange connections, the fact that he's a polyglot, the mystery favor Nina will cash in) has been thrown on the wayside. Olivia's past is very interesting, and Walter's is too, but isn't it time for a bit of Peter backstory that's focus on, well, Peter.

What happened to Big Eddie? And Nina's Favor? An episode focusing on Peter the same way Earthling focused on Broyles would be great. Obviously Peter's would be better, but still. You see what I'm saying. Peter, regardless of the fact that the plot somewhat revolves around him, is in the background. Just because Olivia's the lead doesn't mean that we can't know more about Peter, or that Peter can't do stuff and be in the front lines.

Think of Bones. We know tons about all the characters. Booth, Bones, Angela, Hogins (probably misspelled that)... We know about them. Some of them are side characters, some of them are leads (or one...), but they still get their days in the sun. Their episodes. Their time in the limelight. And when they get those times, they shine. Not the others in their reactions to the time.

This season has been heavily focused on Olivia and Walter.

I wish something like that would happen with Peter. Just once. *sigh*

Well. Crossing my fingers for next season.

Rebe

05-22-2010, 08:09 AM

but they still get their days in the sun. Their episodes. Their time in the limelight. And when they get those times, they shine. Not the others in their reactions to the time.

Exactly!

I'm sorry Rebe you feel this way about Peter's character :(. I remember how upset I was in season 1, especially in the bginning when all he got was some one-liners and rdicilously little screen time. But this season everything has changed and I've learnt to really appreciate the time and stories the writers devote to him. We've had Peter the kickass, the scientist, the caring son, the refuge, the detective, the love interest, the bomb engine and many many more. All those roles complement each other and are accompanied by consistent character development.

I understand what you're getting at - you want Peter to do something big. I don't feel this way - I fell that he is an amazing charcter in everything he does, in all the small things that make for his character and storyline. Now I'm not saying this to argue that my perspective is better than yours - I'm just saying that maybe, just maybe, the writers feel about him the way I do - they don't neglect him or push him aside but they think that he doesn't need enhancing.

How is he sidelined if he is most important to every character on this show? I don't think it is easy to portray such a character in a manner convincing to the viewer. I've seen on many shows situations were actors were unable to pull it off. Josh does and everyone knows it and the writers know it too, as evidenced by the storyline they choose. And I don't think he needs to be defended because his talent defends itself. Just take some opinions read on the internet with a pinch of salt - those who criticise always scream the loudest, this is why we get an impression that there are many of them.

So don't worry, we are in for a wondeful ride and the whole story with Walternate and the weapon has only begun :)

I agree, Peter did a lot more than what he did last season and I am glad that we saw the "kickass, the scientist, the caring son, the refuge, the detective, the love interest, the bomb engine" but I believe after reading reviews, Peter doesn't get enough credit.
His character is quiet not like Walter and that's okay but some people need to stop seeing that as a character flaw or bad acting from Josh. People need to appreciate that Peter is not Walter or Olivia and like peter for who he is.

Yes, I, too have my expectations about Peter, i'm going to pretend I don't but again, I don't blame Josh nor the writers. I just wish some people would stop ignoring Peter which means giving Peter his own moment to shine, acting wise and plotwise.

Obyron

05-22-2010, 08:25 AM

By the same yardstick, so can Olivia fans :haha: I hate complaints she got nothing to do this season. She got lots of development, and the entire of season 1, too. I do love her, but I love the other characters too, they should all get equal development

Absolutely, but I don't see nearly as many or as vocal Olivia fans whinging in every single thread they can post in that the writers are destroying Olivia. In general, attachment to any one character at the expense of the overall show is kind of annoying. :) I'm a Fringe fan, not a Peter or Olivia fan. If it helps the narrative for them to throw Peter into a meat grinder next season, go for it.

ETA: If you think Peter isn't getting enough CREDIT, that's not the same thing as Peter not having enough to do. Good luck ever expecting critics to fall all over your pet supporting actor in any show and praise the way they're pulling their weight. Josh Jackson is simply not a good enough actor to eclipse John Noble in this regard. It's like saying Saskia Reeves should have gotten more credit in the Sci-Fi Channel's Dune miniseries. You're simply not going to get that much attention from critics-- even if you play a character who is internally complex-- when you have to share the screen with Ian McNeice and William Hurt.

Saying that Josh Jackson is not getting enough credit from critics is not at all the same as saying that Peter the character isn't important enough. The point of Fringe is not to win Josh Jackson an Emmy, and if you're expecting them to write it that way, you're going to be disappointed.

Rebe

05-22-2010, 08:32 AM

In general, attachment to any one character at the expense of the overall show is kind of annoying.

I agree but we all have our fave characters and want to see them shine. You know, you can have two brillant actors on a show. Why else would they have leading and supporting actor nominations? Fine, Josh won't eclipse John Noble but that doesn't mean that Josh is supposed to just understate his performance on this show, either. Josh is a good actor but he is not even enough material to show everyone he is more than Pacey Witter or walter's son or Walter's babysitter. Any actor can play Walter's babysitter.

One of Josh's strengths is that he is very useful with his eyes. He doesn't need to say anything but his eyes will say it for him. I want to see that kind of acting from Josh.

Just because you have a "star" player doesn't mean everyone should just sit around with thumbs in their pockets, thinking, "he's so good, I guess I should not show what I can do".

Rebe

05-22-2010, 08:40 AM

Sorry, double post.

aliv

05-22-2010, 09:19 AM

I don't think Peter has a minor rule!!! He is important as Liv and Walter...
Actualy is the first that can find out that there is alt Liv.
I think that Walternate wants Peter back for his plane and send alt Liv for this...but he doesn't know how deep is the feeling btw Peter and our Liv!!!
So Peter will have a big part in next episodes, to save Liv and our world...

I think we'll enjoy our selves next season!!!

Rebe

05-22-2010, 10:09 AM

You know, I am still upset that peter didn't get a bigger role in the finale. I mean, you have the William and Walter confrontation, Olivia switching places with our Olivia, Olivia being held captive by Walternate . Peter didn't have a big scene at all except for the kiss

I hope in season 3 that they finally give Peter his WTH moment cause it is a long time coming.

Rekka

05-22-2010, 10:34 AM

Hmm, I think we'll get more of both Olivia & Peter next season. The whole thing that Bell was alluding to about Peter "holding up more than expected" will probably bring about this background information...and that would be a great time for Big Eddy and his goons to appear. I agree Peter hasn't seen as much action or held a pivotal role in an eps in a long time...but I see it coming sooner than later. :hope:

Quill

05-23-2010, 03:09 AM

The example would actually have been apt if Peter had been compared to Dawn from Buffy S5.

--
Joe
Perhaps from your point of view, but not from the directors' and producers' POV. Certainly not from JJ Abrams' POV when he wrote the Pilot; nor from the people who cast for Fringe, promote it, and market it.

EW's article: J.J Abrams casts Joshua Jackson in 'Fringe' (http://hollywoodinsider.ew.com/2008/02/08/joshua-jackson/)

J.J. Abrams is adding another J.J. to his team: The writer-producer has just cast Joshua Jackson as one of the leads of his new Fox drama, Fringe.

Actually, the best comparison for Fringe's S1/S2 would be to Lost's S1/S2: In terms of show status (ie anchoring), Peter is to Olivia as Kate is to Jack. Only in Fringe's case, Kate has Claire's storyline and airtime. Walter is Fringe's Locke.

Sorry...but Josh Jackson and John Noble fall under supporting actors. Only Anna Torv qualifies as a lead. If you want to re-arrange the Screen Actor's Guild rules and the entire Emmy awards, then go right ahead.
Incorrect. John falls under supporting actor (like Terry O'Quinn). Josh falls under lead, like Evangeline falls under lead for Lost. Anna is equivalent to Matthew's status.

Like it's been said before. We hear about Peter, but we don't see Peter.
Because it can't be said enough, and you've said it best.

Rebe

05-23-2010, 09:28 AM

The more I think about it, the more upset I get. Why won't the writers give Peter something huge to do? They seem to give Walter and Olivia all the big scenes while Peter does some of the most boring things. If they don't push Peter up, I will no longer watch the show. its getting old now.

Obyron

05-23-2010, 09:31 AM

You've posted this fifty times in every thread. We get that you are fuming in impotent rage until the show comes back in September. Nothing has changed since Thursday. Thank you for keeping us updated on your emotional state.

Jabberwock

05-23-2010, 09:38 AM

I'm sure he'll get more in the coming season, Rebe. We can't be the only ones who recognize that Peter's a power keg of plot and character potential.

I'm a bit irritated myself, but I plan on filling the void with pointedly Peter-centric fanfictions. XD

Rebe

05-23-2010, 09:40 AM

Thank you Jabberwock.

Jabberwock

05-23-2010, 09:43 AM

I mean, he IS a lead. They've said so. So I hope that the writers make up for the uneven character development with a Peter centric season. >D

It's our turn, damn it!

I'm hoping for that Nina favor to get cashed in soon. Hehe. I thought it would be cool if Nina was like "Oh, would you steal this for me?" And then Fringe Division get called in to investigate the theft.

Rebe

05-23-2010, 09:48 AM

A Peter-centric season would be wonderful (despite what everyone says about how this season was all about Peter when it was mostly about Walter and Olivia's feelings towards Peter but not Peter as a useful character)

I hope they capitalize on that one important scene where he waves his hand over those gadgets and it stuck to his hand. That's something that can't be just a "shrug" moment. :D

Jabberwock

05-23-2010, 10:01 AM

This season was about Peter, but focused on literally everyone else. D: Hell, it focused on ASTRID more!

I know! Collectively, he was probably in the two hour finale for ten minutes, but that was definitely huge. I'm certain that there will be discussions of that in the next season, between Peter and Walter perhaps. Maybe involving Nina as well.

Obyron

05-23-2010, 10:12 AM

Jabberwock

05-23-2010, 10:25 AM

No... No. It was that Peter was the only one who could power it, for some unknown reason. It wasn't more about the machine, it was about Peter.

Bell made the machine. So he made the machine to respond to Peter. Which means there's something special about Peter.

Rebe

05-23-2010, 10:29 AM

All the more reason for us to know what makes Peter different. Peter's abilties tend to be undermined and underused. Not to mention, the countless times his touch has calmed people.

jade86

05-23-2010, 10:32 AM

I'm sure the machine has Observer origins :D

ThePoleOfJustice

05-23-2010, 11:36 AM

I don't want to throw a big bucket of negativity on the proceedings, but I have to admit I just don't particularly care about Season 3, and the issues with Peter's character are central to that. All the talk about how important his character is to the plot is, I think, missing the point: he's interesting for what he is, but not who he is.

I know his backstory and circumstances are important, but in terms of his character interactions..well, honestly, he's kinda boring. 190 IQ? From another universe? Lived his life as a hyper-intelligent drifter? HIM? He reminds me of the kind of guy that's your co-worker's boyfriend, and whose name you can never remember.

You could argue that the writers are making him "mysterious," but outside of using his existence to power certain plot elements, he just doesn't seem to add much in terms of chemistry. I like JJ as an actor, but one thing he ISN'T is "mysterious." Also, I get that the story's all about him, but...has anyone, ever, seen him come on screen and think "ooh, what's he gonna do now?" I certainly haven't...although I have thought "are they gonna let him do anything interesting this time? Just play straight man to Walter again, huh? Yippee."

I really, really want to like this character. I like the actor, I like the backstory, but I'm being 100% serious when I say that Charlie, Astrid, Broyles, and Nina Sharp are a lot more interesting. It's like the writers came up with this idea, but didn't know how to fill it out on the screen.

Rebe

05-23-2010, 11:53 AM

I am wondering if sending a "Give Peter a bigger role" petition to Pinkner and Orci will in fact help them give Peter a bigger role not to mention, bigger scenes that everyone will be talking about. :confused0006::haha:

Seriously, though, people have been campaigning for the Emmy voters to nominate John Noble, why don't we have our campaign?

We can put all over boards or website, "Give Joshua jackson more to do on Fringe!"

Josh didn't win the genie award for best actor for nothing, you know.

Montecito

05-23-2010, 11:59 AM

Bell made the machine. So he made the machine to respond to Peter. Which means there's something special about Peter.

I disagree 100%

The First People made the Machine. It is old technology.

Propably Peter shares some dna parts with those. Maybe he is a descendant and that dna part will "wake up"

jade86

05-23-2010, 12:04 PM

I'm with Montecito! :happy15:

Rebe

05-23-2010, 12:18 PM

well, whatever that machine is, it better give Peter a bigger role than playing Walter's son.

Joanna

05-23-2010, 12:30 PM

I disagree 100%

The First People made the Machine. It is old technology.

Propably Peter shares some dna parts with those. Maybe he is a descendant and that dna part will "wake up"

I'm not sure, I mean it's definitely the first thing that comes to mind but if it was a matter of DNA, shouldn't it work also for some of his family members? And it is precisely him who can power it and noone else. Unfortuantely, presently I see no alternative to this hypothesis

Montecito

05-23-2010, 12:33 PM

if it was a matter of DNA, shouldn't it work also for some of his family members?

That's why I say that this part is "sleeping". Propably it will be "awaken" in the future..

Jabberwock

05-23-2010, 12:39 PM

The point is that, whoever made it, it was made to respond to Peter alone. Be it because he's a descendant or whatever. He's important because that machine responds to him and only him, as far as we know, for whatever reason.

Utnogrl

05-23-2010, 02:01 PM

Utnogrl

05-23-2010, 02:03 PM

Rebe

05-23-2010, 02:10 PM

You guys are really worrying me.

Why? Just because we care about Peter and don't like the way he is treated doesn't mean we aren't allowed to state our frustrations.
Walter and Olivia are not the only characters on this show.

Utnogrl

05-23-2010, 02:27 PM

Why? Just because we care about Peter and don't like the way he is treated doesn't mean we aren't allowed to state our frustrations.
Walter and Olivia are not the only characters on this show.

:shiny:

Jabberwock

05-23-2010, 02:42 PM

What are YOU watching??? This season did not focus on Astrid more than Peter. What the heck??? You guys are really worrying me.

That's not what I meant. I meant that we saw more of her feelings than we did Peter. Near the end, particularly in Brown Betty. I understood more of how she felt than I did Peter.

Rebe

05-23-2010, 03:06 PM

That's not what I meant. I meant that we saw more of her feelings than we did Peter. Near the end, particularly in Brown Betty. I understood more of how she felt than I did Peter.

Exactly, we saw Walter crumble, we saw Olivia drink her sorrows, Astrid was there to help Walter but we never got to see Peter's reaction. You would think the episode after such a big reveal, we would see how Peter's coping but it was instead all about Walter taking drugs and telling a musical story to Ella.

Yes, we did get a Peter-centric episode and I am utterly grateful but that episode was episodes too late.

I think the secret should have been revealed in the middle of the season instead of 4 episodes before the season finale.

Jabberwock

05-23-2010, 03:13 PM

Indeed! I liked Brown Betty, but it could have at least cut from Walter's story and Peter running.

Quill

05-23-2010, 05:09 PM

I'm totally hearting Rebe and Jabberwock right now. I've had this discussion before (for Lost), and they are those rare of rare people who completely get the POV difference between on show reality and on air fiction issue.

The more I think about it, the more upset I get. Why won't the writers give Peter something huge to do? They seem to give Walter and Olivia all the big scenes while Peter does some of the most boring things. If they don't push Peter up, I will no longer watch the show. its getting old now.
It *is* getting old now. I'm not at the point where I fast forward through Olivia Olivia Olivia and Walter Walter Walter, but it's getting close. And that's the first step to me tuning out.

This season was about Peter, but focused on literally everyone else. D: Hell, it focused on ASTRID more!
Word. And *I* understood what you meant, considering it's all we've been talking about.

It's ridiculous that Peter has a Claire storyline with Claire's airtime. He should have a Claire storyline with KATE's airtime. Josh is not equivalent to Emilie in the cast. He's a lead.

I'm sure he'll get more in the coming season, Rebe. We can't be the only ones who recognize that Peter's a power keg of plot and character potential.

I'm a bit irritated myself, but I plan on filling the void with pointedly Peter-centric fanfictions. XD
Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. I keep trying to write some myself, but I lost my last when my laptop went kablooey.

Really? You promise?
Here's hoping you never have an issue with the show, Utnogrl, valid or otherwise. I'd hate to see you have to deal with others acting like you.

yvaine

05-23-2010, 07:55 PM

I'm not sure, I mean it's definitely the first thing that comes to mind but if it was a matter of DNA, shouldn't it work also for some of his family members? And it is precisely him who can power it and noone else. Unfortuantely, presently I see no alternative to this hypothesis

It must have something to do with his DNA + his "special abilities".

“I don’t know what you’ve heard about me, but changing the laws of physics might be slightly above my abilities.” -- maybe he's wrong. ;)

Also, I want to ask REBE -- I ask this with the utmost respect for a fellow Peter fan, so please don't go ballistic -- does your issue really have to do with Peter as a character or more with how Josh isn't getting much recognition on the show? I just want to know where you're coming from because I'm a Peter fan, but don't really feel the same way about the character's progress in the show so far. :)

Utnogrl

05-23-2010, 07:59 PM

"Here's hoping you never have an issue with the show, Utnogrl, valid or otherwise. I'd hate to see you have to deal with others acting like you."

Acting like me? :confused:

hmmm...maybe I should have shut up just like everyone else has on this thread and let you all just have at it. I'm not going to get into any fights and get banned from this forum for this.

I give up. It's not even worth the argument.

But...

If you give us all some good Peter-centric Fanfiction, I will not complain :P

It must have something to do with his DNA + his "special abilities".

“I don’t know what you’ve heard about me, but changing the laws of physics might be slightly above my abilities.” -- maybe he's wrong. ;)

Also, I want to ask REBE -- I ask this with the utmost respect for a fellow Peter fan, so please don't go ballistic -- does your issue really have to do with Peter as a character or more with how Josh isn't getting much recognition on the show? I just want to know where you're coming from because I'm a Peter fan, but don't really feel the same way about the character's progress in the show so far. :)

Yeah, I'm a huge Peter fan and Josh Jackson fan. I think that Peter is the deepest character on the show. You have no idea what goes on in my mind about Joshin' Jackson :love0050:

It may have something to do with how they feel that his character is not clear on how he feels about things. Thing is, that's exactly how he's feeling now. Not clear at all. (He has a lot of things to work through in his mind. He's been through a lot in this past year alone.) So where this is coming from, I don't get it. But let them have their say, It may lead to some excellent fanFiction :reader:

Quill

05-23-2010, 10:27 PM

Also, I want to ask REBE -- I ask this with the utmost respect for a fellow Peter fan, so please don't go ballistic -- does your issue really have to do with Peter as a character or more with how Josh isn't getting much recognition on the show?
Personally, I think Rebe has made it pretty clear in her posts that it's both quantity and quality - as others have agreed with her, including myself.

Thing is, that's exactly how he's feeling now. Not clear at all.
Nice fanwank. Too bad we haven't seen any actual scenes on the show to confirm it. Good example of what Rebe, Jabberwock, and I have been talking about though. Once again, it's ridiculous we have to read into things instead of actually seeing them on film. They certainly beat us over the head with all the Walter is Saaaaad and Olivia is toooooorn scenes.

hmmm...maybe I should have shut up just like everyone else has on this thread and let you all just have at it.
Nice martyrdom. BTW, no one is telling you to stop posting if you disagree with (or more accurately in this case, don't understand) the points people are making.

justkickit

05-23-2010, 10:33 PM

Quill

05-23-2010, 10:54 PM

I'm guessing, but it's probably more about the Peter character in general. I wouldn't even call him a character lately, to me he is just a plot device.

The writers change his decisions/emotions depending on where they want the story to go. Peter is the most inconsistently written character on the show, in that he is never true to what he has done previously in the series.

Anything interesting about his past adult life they dropped in season 1 and all we have been getting lately and being told is that he is special and important.We are being told this constantly, which is getting old, but not being shown why. They really need to show us, or just not mention it.

To me they write for Olivia and Walter but not for Peter. If they did, I would know alot more about him, understand his thoughts and why he does things more, and actually see key parts that his character is involved in threshed out to the full and not rushed and be incomplete (eg the whole machine arc for him in the finale).

I think Peter can be an interesting character if they want him to be, but like somebody else said, I don't think the writers really have a fleshed out plan of what they think Peter should be.

I actually like the character of Peter and he has alot of potential which is just being squandered in my opinion.
Nice post, and an excellent summation of an issue that's made worse by the fact that Josh (and by extension his character) is a lead.

I really wish they'd kept Peter in the alternate universe. I'd really love to see how the tabloids (and planet) reacts to his return. And I *really* want to see his relationship with Walternate. I think Peter is key to softening him, like children do for their parents. They force adults to see the world through *their* eyes.

Sigh. Stupid show. I swear I feel like Brady Bunch's Jan since Olivia is pretty much the Marsha of the show.

Rebe

05-24-2010, 01:21 AM

It must have something to do with his DNA + his "special abilities".

“I don’t know what you’ve heard about me, but changing the laws of physics might be slightly above my abilities.” -- maybe he's wrong. ;)

Also, I want to ask REBE -- I ask this with the utmost respect for a fellow Peter fan, so please don't go ballistic -- does your issue really have to do with Peter as a character or more with how Josh isn't getting much recognition on the show? I just want to know where you're coming from because I'm a Peter fan, but don't really feel the same way about the character's progress in the show so far. :)

Its both. If Peter is not an interesting character or is kinda in the background, then Josh can't exactly show his acting chops which will lead to people not exactly talking about him or mentioning him in reviews.

yvaine

05-24-2010, 01:44 AM

Rebe and the others -- Thanks for the replies. I appreciate your points. :) You guys should consider writing to Pinkner/Wyman and Akiva Goldsman. It wouldn't hurt your cause. :)

jade86

05-24-2010, 02:15 AM

As Peter's fan, i would explain my point of view.

The writers of this show aren't stupid. I think they are slowly developing Peter's character and the difference is remarkable if we consider the first season. Firstly, we saw Peter really invested in the cases, becoming the protagonist in almost all the episodes in the first half of the season and showing his talents (i refer to josh's acting too). Then, the writers are assembled on real Peter's history seen by Walter and Olivia and we saw a lot of their feelings about the "revelation" and seems that Peter's character has been put aside. But when he learned the truth, we saw his reaction. We can't actually talk about his emotions but we saw his state of mind, which i found interesting and especially realistic! Peter isn't a very emotional character but we also saw his real feelings when he refered to his mother and when he met his real mother in the alternate universe. And josh did a really good job, especially in the last three episodes.
I mean the writers didn't developed the real Peter's character yet, because at the moment he was like a lost soul. How can you react when you find out that all the Fringe events and the coming war are related to you? But now that Peter has discovered something about him, i think he's near to the crack ( "find the crack" ;)), so next season the writers will develop his character at 360 degrees and then we'll say "FINALLY!" :D

Ok, i wrote a romance XD
I'm sorry if my english isn't perfect, but i hope you understood what i meant.

Quill

05-24-2010, 03:00 AM

I'd love to agree with you, jade, but most of what you wrote is assumption (ie fanwank) and not something we saw on camera. Which is pretty much our whole point. We should not need to assume in order to explain anything Peter, particularly anything Peter in regards to how he feels about the current plotline.

...so next season the writers will develop his character at 360 degrees and then we'll say "FINALLY!" :D

Except we shouldn't need to say FINALLY, and certainly not NEXT season. These things should have been addressed within the last two seasons, given Josh and Peter's status on the show, not to mention within a storyline that's been directly about him.

After TWO seasons, we shouldn't have people needing to say "oh, just wait until next season, it's sure to get better" for a LEAD character.

I mean the writers didn't developed the real Peter's character yet, because at the moment he was like a lost soul. How can you react when you find out that all the Fringe events and the coming war are related to you?

Good writing means you develop the character when the storyline calls for it, not afterwards. If Peter was a lost soul when he found out everything, we should have seen it then. It's a missed opportunity otherwise. Waiting months after the fact (assuming they even get back to it) is poor judgement and planning on the writers' part.

Joanna

05-24-2010, 03:52 AM

I'm guessing, but it's probably more about the Peter character in general. I wouldn't even call him a character lately, to me he is just a plot device.

The writers change his decisions/emotions depending on where they want the story to go. Peter is the most inconsistently written character on the show, in that he is never true to what he has done previously in the series.

Anything interesting about his past adult life they dropped in season 1 and all we have been getting lately and being told is that he is special and important. We are being told this constantly, which is getting old, but not being shown why. They really need to show us, or just not mention it.

To me they write for Olivia and Walter but not for Peter. If they did, I would know alot more about him, understand his thoughts and why he does things more, and actually see key parts that his character is involved in threshed out to the full and not rushed and be incomplete (eg the whole machine arc for him in the finale).

I think Peter can be an interesting character if they want him to be, but like somebody else said, I don't think the writers really have a fleshed out plan of what they think Peter should be.

I actually like the character of Peter and he has alot of potential which is just being squandered in my opinion.

Those are some really sad things to say about a character you claim to like :(.
How can people say they love or like a character and then go on to say that he is not interesting, horribly written and all he has is potential. It may be just me but see it as self-contradictory.

Every episode I watch I cannot get over how awesome this character is and how much I enjoy his every seond on the screen. So I guess I just feel sad while reading all those critical opinions presented as caring. It may be childish of me but upsets me. I'm off to rewatch Northern Passage. All of you, have a nice day

ThePoleOfJustice

05-24-2010, 04:02 AM

Those are some really sad things to say about a character you claim to like :(.
How can people say they love or like a character and then go on to say that he is not interesting, horribly written and all he has is potential. It may be just me but see it as self-contradictory.

Not at all. The idea of a super genius with a wild streak who may or may not hold the fate of two universes in his grip is a great idea for a character. I like that character, and the actor playing him is likable.

But what has actually been done with him in terms of the show, and in comparison with virtually every other character, has been lazy, poorly thought out, and thoroughly disappointing.

Ph8

05-24-2010, 05:01 AM

"Here's hoping you never have an issue with the show, Utnogrl, valid or otherwise. I'd hate to see you have to deal with others acting like you."

Acting like me? :confused:

hmmm...maybe I should have shut up just like everyone else has on this thread and let you all just have at it. I'm not going to get into any fights and get banned from this forum for this.

I give up. It's not even worth the argument.

Honestly its not worth it, no matter what you say you are going to be wrong and not "seeing" things clearly. Sorry in some cases its better to just move on and say lets agree to disagree.

Honestly though, we've been through two seasons of this show, the characters are STILL being revealed to us. Opps wait thats "fanwank"...Ill put it this way, from what we have seen the writers show us its either time to say Peter will NEVER be the main lead character that his superfans\supporters want OR that they may not be done with him. The show creators would like to get a six season arch out of this show, which means there is a lot of room for development and screentime for all of the characters in the show.

Ill also add this, Josh Jackson wasnt happy with the role of his character or where they wanted to take it hed most likely leave, ops there I go again another "fanwank"....

Ph8

05-24-2010, 05:50 AM

Honestly its not worth it, no matter what you say you are going to be wrong and not "seeing" things clearly. Sorry in some cases its better to just move on and say lets agree to disagree.

Honestly though, we've been through two seasons of this show, the characters are STILL being revealed to us. Opps wait thats "fanwank"...Ill put it this way, from what we have seen the writers show us its either time to say Peter will NEVER be the main lead character that his superfanssupporters want OR that they may not be done with him. The show creators would like to get a six season arch out of this show, which means there is a lot of room for development and screentime for all of the characters in the show.

Ill also add this, Josh Jackson wasnt happy with the role of his character or where they wanted to take it hed most likely leave, ops there I go again another "fanwank"....

Well I just read an article that had an interview with Pinker and Wyman. Here is the snippet that had me thinking that this Season WASNT about Peter afterall:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/showtracker/2010/05/pinkner-and-wyman-the-evil-geniuses-behind-fringe.html

“We knew that Season Two would largely be driven by a couple of things.” Pinkner said. “One was the secret of Peter’s identity, which we acknowledged to the audience at the end of Season One. Then we wanted to acknowledge it to our characters. And we knew that by the end of the season, Walternate would have succeeded in his goal of crossing over to our side to try to convince his son to come back.”
Pinkner went on. “We wanted to play consequences as much as possible. We didn’t just want event, event, event. Olivia learns the truth about Peter, and what are the consequences of that? Peter learns the truth, what are the consequences of that. Of course, before any of that, it’s Walter suffering with the secretly and desperately trying to keep it all quiet. We wanted to give these things time.”

This notion of it being all about Peter is actually wrong then.......Peters story\background is a big part of it, but it wasnt all about him.....

Believe me when I say this, I understand WHAT you are looking for, but in reality what you want and the way the show is going to go may never happen.......

The_war_is_already_on

05-24-2010, 06:24 AM

In s1, walters notes walter says "he is the key to it all", or something like that. My theory is the nazi's tried to purify "first people" dna, so they could unlock their technology.......

Note the technologies activation via touch (beacon, gun, doomsday machine)....(Full theory under first people)...

I think the machine is just the begining of the introduction to that past based arc, that will draw in the bishop line, nazi gene engineering, the observers and much more...

But, the character journey for peter will be even more trouble for him. Hes already struggled to care about others, and not be selfish. He's faced the truth about his abduction. How will he deal with his central role in the whole outcome and the observers plans?

Ive enjoyed the journey. Also remember peters turning point about being interested in fringe, started with his contact with the observer...

I think the reason why they havent revealled much about this yet, is because its foundational, and thus cant be revealled too quick....

But I could be wrong. Either way, I severely doubt the arc about peters genes is dead. And personally im enjoying his character development....

Its like olivias really, hidden skeletons in that closet. But peter doesnt have olivias defense mechanism, turning fear to anger. Peter so far, has dealt by running away. Every time. Which should make the turn around interesting, and I guess connected to his relationship with olivia and walter, who "grounds" him. No wonder peter and olivia are so attracted, both so uniquelly scarred.

Rebe

05-24-2010, 07:55 AM

This notion of it being all about Peter is actually wrong then.......Peters storybackground is a big part of it, but it wasnt all about him.....

No, it was all about Walter and Olivia for the second time. Peter has always been in the background as if his character is not important.

Those are some really sad things to say about a character you claim to like :(.
How can people say they love or like a character and then go on to say that he is not interesting, horribly written and all he has is potential. It may be just me but see it as self-contradictory.

Every episode I watch I cannot get over how awesome this character is and how much I enjoy his every seond on the screen. So I guess I just feel sad while reading all those critical opinions presented as caring. It may be childish of me but upsets me. I'm off to rewatch Northern Passage. All of you, have a nice day

I know but I have read some reviews and most of them always ignore the Peter character or criticize him for whatever. Some people even see Peter as Pacey 2.0. Believe me, its not fun at all. I love Peter's character, I just think they need to expand on his character. I read reviews where everyone was praising Walter and on occasion Olivia in the season finale for playing two separate characters but people rarely talked about peter cause Peter didn't do anything huge or buzzworthy. Maybe if the writers give Josh a more fleshed out character, then maybe people will appreciate him more.

I just think people need to give Peter more attention and maybe people will be surprised by him. I'm sorry if I offended everyone.

Ph8

05-24-2010, 08:32 AM

No, it was all about Walter and Olivia for the second time. Peter has always been in the background as if his character is not important.

I know but I have read some reviews and most of them always ignore the Peter character or criticize him for whatever. Some people even see Peter as Pacey 2.0. Believe me, its not fun at all. I love Peter's character, I just think they need to expand on his character. I read reviews where everyone was praising Walter and on occasion Olivia in the season finale for playing two separate characters but people rarely talked about peter cause Peter didn't do anything huge or buzzworthy. Maybe if the writers give Josh a more fleshed out character, then maybe people will appreciate him more.

I just think people need to give Peter more attention and maybe people will be surprised by him. I'm sorry if I offended everyone.

The problem is that you are relying on reviews\peoples opinions too much ;).......There is nothing wrong with liking a character and wishing he had a bigger "camera facing" role. Truth be told a lot of scenes Peter makes the scene, but since he is "secondary" to both walter and Olivia he will also get overshoadowed in reviews. Most of this has to do with the fact that this show has been centered around Olivia and Walter since the beginning so it will be hard for people to stand out. This is especially the case since Josh is inbetween a newcomer in Torv (US side) and Noble who has a long and diverse acting career. Add Nimoy to the pot and Josh would probably be 4th in most lists for the show (not that he deserves that, but its the way its percieved).

Since these are all opinions everyones entitled to one :) personally I think Josh is playing Peter as the wrtiers\creators wnat him to be played. While he is an important piece to the show, he is more background then foreground. This may never change or we may see more of Peter in the future. Since the show still ahs another season at least I wouldnt be too worried about it :).....

As others have stated until give Peter a more diverse character role then your best bet would probably be to write some fan-fiction of your own to pass the time.

Again nothing wrong with wanting to see more, its when people close out others opinions and start to be insulting (not you) that others tend to shy away from the subject.

We are still early in the arch I ahve a feeling youll be happy down the road :)

Rebe

05-24-2010, 08:46 AM

Ph8

05-24-2010, 09:05 AM

I am now getting more depressed. I guess Peter is not a priority on this show. Not sure why the writers even made the Peter character if he is merely background. Why would Fox promote Josh as one of the leads if he is only background fodder?

Again, being a co lead and background character are different things...As I have said over and over and over, Peter is an important part to the show even if he doesnt get the character development or screentime the other leads get. You are taking the overly negative route here IMO....I said that most of the time the scenes are made by Peter, but since he gets overshadowed by the other two leds he may not stand out as much (besides to die hard fans).......If he were a background character youd see as much of him as you to Astrid and we all KNOW thats not the case.

IMO its wayyyyyyyyy to early to get this upset over it. They still have another 20 some odd episodes for next season. I can almost say for sure that Peter will play a prominent role in the rescue of Olivia. This may not be what you want to see, but it may be the way the writers begin to expand Peter's emotional character.

OK heres an older article with Josh Jackon where I think he states better then any of us could his role (BTW he doesnt seem upset with the role he has):
http://www.cinemablend.com/television/Interview-Fringe-s-Joshua-Jackson-19925.html

<H1>Interview: Fringe's Joshua Jackson

By David Wharton (http://www.cinemablend.com/features/About-Us-296.html#David%20Wharton): 2009-09-17 15:10:06
Share (http://www.addthis.com/bookmark.php?v=250&pub=xa-4b28c0185a35e219) |

http://www.cinemablend.com/images/sections/19925/19925.jpg Fringe returns for a second season tonight at 9 p.m./8 p.m. Central on Fox. Earlier this week series star Joshua “Don’t Call Me Pacey” Jackson did a conference call with journalists, and below we’ve got the full transcript for your amusement and edification.

What do you enjoy more as an actor, when you get to do an episode in which there’s lots of action, fighting, racing around, or when it’s crazy science elements, or when it’s simply doing a scene with the cow?
The cow’s a diva; it’s a little-known fact. She’s not very giving. I don’t know that I have a particular favorite. I think if I did any one of those things too much, each one would become boring in their way. The hope is to try and balance those things out as much as possible, if not in every episode, in every couple of episodes. I would tell you that the thing I spend the time thinking about is trying to keep the dynamic between Peter and Walter truthful and growing, but the beauty of being on a television show is that you get to do a little bit of everything all the time.

What is your reaction when you get the scripts and it’s some new crazy thing that they’re bringing into the story?
That’s the beauty of our show; if we don’t have a new crazy thing, something’s gone horribly wrong, so I take it always as a positive thing. Each week it’s a little bit of a science lesson for the class, it’s a little bit of a vocabulary lesson for the class, and it always presents you with some other kooky thing.

As a fan, the things that I like most about our show, the genre that our show is in, is the bigger story rather than the individual creepy, gooey stuff. What we’ve done pretty well is to make each one of the creepy, gooey things add up into a much bigger story. That’s the thing that I geek out on, that I think is so cool.

Did you see the twist in the finale coming?
Did I see the twist coming in the finale? Which one?

The twist involving you.
They thankfully gave me a heads-up a couple months before that happened so that I didn’t read it and think that I had been fired. It sounds a little bit like a tag line, but it is the truth. The great thing about our show is that if we can dream it, we can do it. I don’t think anybody really saw that twist coming. I was only told about it four or five months in advance, but I think that’s amazing. To put the last frame of the show in the World Trade Center is incredible. I love our show for that. It should keep on pushing boundaries and envelopes like that.

Going forward now, what can you tell us about that particular storyline?
The Peter storyline or the Olivia storyline?

The Peter storyline.
The Peter storyline, what I love so much about that, beyond the “ain’t-it-cool factor,” is now the audience knows something about Peter that he doesn’t know about himself, something crucial about him that he doesn’t know about himself. We come to find out that this is a large part of the guilt that Walter carries around, is that he baby-snatched Peter as a young boy. Inevitably, that information had to come out, so while I don’t know the particulars much further than the episode that I’m shooting right now, I do think eventually that has to come to a head, and it will lead to a conflict between the two guys.

The entire first season for Peter and Walter was about this father and son reconnecting through the craziness of their circumstances and actually becoming something of a family, a very dysfunctional family. And season two has carried that forth. In the beginning, Peter is really invested now in being part of this team and actually belonging to this Fringe family, but eventually he’s going to find out that this horrible [thing] happened to him as a child, and that’s going to blow up his relationship with Walter and probably with Olivia, I would imagine. To me, that’s the great thing hanging over Peter the entire season, and it gives me something to move toward as they go forward.

Do you think that Peter and Olivia will have some sort of romantic relationship or do hope that they don’t?
My estimation, I just kind of said it a second ago, which is that I feel like this is more of a family dynamic than a romantic dynamic. What’s unique and what’s great about our show is, as opposed to having just a leading man and a leading lady, you have this crazy father in the center of it. That would be a very, very awkward love triangle, so I don’t think they’re going to go in that direction. I see Peter and Olivia as more brother and sister rather than lovers on this show. Where they’re going to take it, I have no idea, but for right now I run under the assumption that this is father, son, daughter rather than boyfriend, girlfriend, dad.

Peter’s sarcasm is a huge selling point for my wife and me and a lot of other viewers…
[My] sarcasm is not really all that welcomed in my household sometimes…call my girlfriend.

We really like the interplay between Walter and Peter and the asides that Peter has. How much of the sarcasm is improvised versus scripted, and how much is you versus Peter?
I’ll give the writers credit. I’d say most of those lines are written, though there is, particularly in the scenes with John, John and I have a very strong working rapport and he’s a very playful actor. I mean that in a good way, that he likes to keep things live, and so you keep on testing and trying. Just to toot my own horn, I feel like I’m a bit that way myself. I think a lot of the humor of those moments comes out of the two of us just playing around until we figure out something that pops out of it, though the scenarios are definitely written. I would say that Peter’s a much more cynical man than Josh is; his sarcasm has a tendency to be a lot darker than my sense of humor.

When we first met you in the first season, we got a sense of this kind of dark background that you had, doing arms dealing and such. Will we get back to that and what he was doing in his life away from his father and the life that he’s got now?
Yes. We actually delved right into that very early in the season. We kept on hinting at it last year but never showing it, and it’s not a problem of the format of the show. It’s not called Peter’s Fringe. It’s difficult to put these characters’ backstories into the show. That’s not true, not their backstories; it’s difficult to put their outside lives into the show. Does that make sense?

Each episode has a central focus; however, we immediately understood what it was, what function Walter has as part of this Fringe team, and we spent the first season explaining exactly why Olivia Dunham, in particular, as opposed to any other FBI agent, had to be the center of this Fringe team. What we never really got into until the final episode, the final frames of the final episode, was why it is specifically that Peter needs to be a part of this. Now that we’ve brought him in, this season we’ve gone a lot deeper into actually showing, rather than just talking about, this prior life that he had.

Is there an aspect of that character that is exciting you to play?
Absolutely. It’s the thing that drew me into the character in the very beginning, the idea that he has, not even gray, a very black past that he was in a way running from and in another way wants to run back to. Oddly, being an arms dealer and being generally not a very good person is probably simpler for him emotionally than having to deal with his father and to confront all these things from his childhood.

During its first season, Fringe was one of those shows that seemed to sort of steadily gain an audience before it really broke out and became a hit. Was there a particular moment during the season, either from watching the show or from seeing the fans, where you really knew that it was catching on?
There’s always a lag time for those of us who work on the show between making it and the reaction, because, of course, it takes six weeks for it to get on the air. But I think internally, I’m pretty sure I’m not alone in this, but the first big cliffhanger when Dunham gets kidnapped, I think it’s in episode 11. I think that’s creatively when the show really hit its stride in the first season.

Do you think that Fringe can continue being accessible to new viewers this season?
Yes. We’re just starting the eighth episode this year, and I would say that we are. The eighth episode is a mythology-heavy episode. I’d say we’re about 50/50 for episodes that are heavy into the big backstories and stories that are just one-off investigations. The idea is also that, regardless of whether it’s a mythology episode or part of the larger story or not, each one of these investigations in every episode will always have a beginning, middle, and end. Even if it is a heavy mythology episode, you can still tune in and get a satisfying story, as opposed to tuning in to the story halfway through.

Everybody uses Lost as an example. Lost is a fantastic show, but each one of those episodes doesn’t really have a beginning, middle, and end; it’s part of a continuing story. So, if you don’t know the things that have come before, it’s incredibly difficult to just drop in, which is just what Lost is. We should be so lucky to be as good as Lost on our show. The difference being that the format of our show lends itself to simpler storytelling, which is that every week there’ll be something that this group of people has to investigate. Sometimes it’s going to lead them to learn something about the larger story they’re investigating, and if you don’t know anything about that, you probably won’t be engaged by that. But regardless, it will still come to an end that episode. Does that make sense?

That’s one of the conceits of Fringe, that if you want to pay attention every week, there’s a lot of story being told all the time, but if you just want to tune in, drop in for a fun hour away where you get to cringe at the bad stuff and root for the good guys and hiss at the bad guys, there’s that aspect, too. It doesn’t turn you away at the door.

Like any new show, Fringe had its share of ups and downs during the year, but I think it had a really strong second half. When do you think the show really found its own voice, its own style, and what kind of show it wanted and should be?
I think right around the midway point of last season the show decided what it wanted to be. From about the midway, point it got on a pretty good streak of episodes. I can’t remember the exact number, but the two-part episode where Dunham gets kidnapped. After that, it was pretty clear; we introduced the bad guys for the season and there was a much clearer narrative drive through the rest of the season.

I would say, though, that I don’t think the look of the show changed. I think, visually, the show always knew what it wanted to be. What we were trying to figure out was the alchemy, what proportion was going to be a serialized show, what proportion was going to be one-off. We were still discovering who the character was. I think it was much more about the storytelling than it was about the look of the show in the first season, like every show, frankly, has to figure out.

Has working on Fringe altered your perception of public transportation and pretty much everything else?
Strangely, I still fly, which you would imagine you would be a little nervous [about] as you worked on the show. No, it hasn’t really altered my perception of public transportation too much. In fact, I still take public transit to work; I guess Fringe has inoculated me.

Obviously the show deals with parallel universes. Has this opened up your mind to the idea of parallel universes, and what do you think about the probability that there might be a parallel version of yourself in some universe?
I do think this idea is part of the zeitgeist right now. Maybe it’s my West Coast, liberal upbringing, but the idea of parallel universes doesn’t really strike me as being too far out there. After the ‘60s, and after all the psychedelia and the doors of perception and what-have-you, I don’t think it’s really all that far out.

What defies my imagination is that there would be nothing out there that would defy my imagination, and maybe it’s because I’m a sci-fi fan. It just seems like the only justifiable position that a human can have in 2009 is humility in the face of the universe. We’re learning so much, and everything that we learn, it’s like that Carl Sagan thing, the candle in the dark. Every time the candle gets a little bit brighter, it only serves to illuminate how much we still don’t know.

The show’s being called a cross between The X Files and Dark Angel and a couple of other sci-fi shows. What’s your opinion about that?
I don’t really get what the Dark Angel reference would be. Oh, maybe because Dunham was experimented on when she was a kid, perhaps. I don’t know. I think The X Files is a more fair comparison, but even in the opening credits The X Files, by design, dealt with things that were supposed to be part of the paranormal. What Fringe is trying to say is that these things that we would normally classify as fantastical are actually part of the normal. They all have legitimate explanations in the scientific world; they can’t be chalked up to alien possession or fairies or Dracula.

You’re a big science fiction fan. I was wondering if Fringe satisfies all of your science-fiction needs, or is there some science-fiction plotline out there that you’re really just dying to do?
Of course Fringe doesn’t fill up the science-fiction quotient of my acting life. I don’t know if there’s any in particular; it’s hard to say that you’d be dying to do something, because it’s probably already been done, but there’s an infinite number of stories out there. There are plenty of books that I read as a young man that I would love to turn into movies, some of which have already been turned into movies.

It is a ton of fun for a guy who loves science fiction to be working on a science-fiction show. None of the concepts that are raised on this show are entirely foreign to me, nor do they seem that far out there, but I’ve never worked on a show before where we got to actually explore those ideas.

Is there anything in particular that you would be interested in doing?
I would have loved to be part of Lord of the Rings, and now they’re making The Hobbit. I’m not in that, either. I guess I’ll have to wait for The Silmarillion.

You mentioned that you’re a big sci-fi fan. What is it like working with Leonard Nimoy?
I’ve been shafted so far; in fact, I’m going to lodge a formal complaint through this conference call. Leonard’s been up here twice, and while I did get to meet him and that’s cool, I have yet to be able to do a scene with him, and I think that’s un-cool.

</H1>

Ph8

05-24-2010, 09:11 AM

Maybe Fringe needs writers like Joss Whedon. he can write characters that you care about without making 2 characters more important than the others. Joss did it awesomely with Buffy. Like I said before, Buffy was the lead and despite that, we come to care about Willow and Xander, too. Not to mention, all of them had their own storylines where one didn't overshadow the other. They all had equal playing field.

Different story different type of show, you cant really compare the two...I keeps seeing yous ay that no one cares aboutPeters character, and the total oposite has been said by almsot everyone throughout this thread....

Rebe

05-24-2010, 09:20 AM

Cest la vie. I think I have finished my Peter bishop complaints. I have nothing else.

jade86

05-24-2010, 09:31 AM

Rebe i don't know where you read all those negative comments about Peter/Josh, but i found different fringe sites with a lot of positive comments about him ;)

Rebe

05-24-2010, 09:33 AM

Rebe i don't know where you read all those negative comments about Peter/Josh, but i found different fringe sites with a lot of positive comments about him ;)

That's good although its horrible that Josh's performances seem to be ignored by almost everyone. While John and Anna get to show their stuff, Josh never seems to. I'm really angry right now.

Joanna

05-24-2010, 10:49 AM

I know but I have read some reviews and most of them always ignore the Peter character or criticize him for whatever. Some people even see Peter as Pacey 2.0. Believe me, its not fun at all. I love Peter's character, I just think they need to expand on his character. I read reviews where everyone was praising Walter and on occasion Olivia in the season finale for playing two separate characters but people rarely talked about peter cause Peter didn't do anything huge or buzzworthy. Maybe if the writers give Josh a more fleshed out character, then maybe people will appreciate him more.

I just think people need to give Peter more attention and maybe people will be surprised by him. I'm sorry if I offended everyone.

I know what types of reviews you are talking about, I've encountered some of them too. But they are in large minority and to be honest, who cares what some bitter grumps think? I immediately dismiss them as written by people who don't know what they are talking about. So much for my respect for different opinions :P. But seriously, they are such single cases that I don't feel they are of any significance. Why don't you focus on all the praises Peter and Josh got in reviews? I have read many of them, I could send you some links to cheer you up but I think it's against the rules.

Besides, Peter is not the only one who occasionally gets unfair treatment. And what about all the opinions about Olivia, who was sometimes described as broring etc. But who cares?

I second Ph8, no need to be frustrated by the opnions of some grumpy folks, remember that the main purpose in expressing their critical views is usually to antagonise and upset ardent fans such as yourself. Don't let them ;)

As to the bold part, its so ridiculous that I don't think it should be even honoured with a mere thought, let alone a comment. I think that there are people who for some reasons don't like it that a kid from a teenage drama managed to get past it, get some interesting roles and become an awarded actor. Whatever their motivations, who cares

jade86

05-24-2010, 11:19 AM

I'm with Joanna! :D

Rebe

05-24-2010, 11:41 AM

Yeah, I can agree that Olivia gets shafted most of the time and that's not fair either. I will say this, at least Peter has his moments no matter how quiet they may be.

Peter awakened Olivia
Peter was very helpful in helping Olivia after her accident
He was also there for his father
We even got to see the "bad boy" in Peter when he got affected
He found out his secret and ran away
Peter also had an episode all to himself
Olivia finally kissed peter
He is also very helpful in fixing things. he seems to fix Walter's car, turntable, he built that sound thingy, etc.
We also got to see Josh's best performance when he confronted walter.

I guess I should happy that we got this much from Peter, as opposed to last season.

So, let's hope in season 3, Peter becomes less quiet and becomes more active (emotionally, plotwise, etc) :haha:

But you're right, I shouldn't let the critical opinions of some people dictate my enjoyment of the show, Peter's character and Josh's performance. I should enjoy it for what it is, nevermind those who look down at it. I still have my wants, though but I will have faith in the writers.

Quill

05-24-2010, 03:59 PM

IMO its wayyyyyyyyy to early to get this upset over it.
Not for a lead character and lead actor it's not. If we were talking about Reddick, Brown, or Nicole, then yes it *is* too early. But not for Jackson.

And I love how you broke copywrite in order to post an article (http://www.cinemablend.com/television/Interview-Fringe-s-Joshua-Jackson-19925.html) from before the second season started when the producers were all "Peter's going to be taking a more active role this season! No, seriously! He's gonna take chaaaaaaaarge". Like THAT happened. Not. Which you proved quite nicely with the other article you linked (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/showtracker/2010/05/pinkner-and-wyman-the-evil-geniuses-behind-fringe.html). So I'm pretty sure, Ph8, that despite what you think you're arguing, you're really in fact arguing OUR point.

Once again, sad we get more information from an article than we do from the actual show.

Peters storybackground is a big part of it, but it wasnt all about him.....
Yeah, I know. How dare people expect a story about Peter to actually have Peter in it. The nerve!

Besides, Peter is not the only one who occasionally gets unfair treatment. And what about all the opinions about Olivia, who was sometimes described as broring etc. But who cares?
You're actually talking about something else, Joanna. There are two separate issues here: Josh's status/treatment on the show, and opinion of Peter's character. You're talking about the former only, whereas Rebe is talking about both. She's arguing his treatment (and by this she's specific in what she means by treatment: lack of screentime and lack of focus) on the show affects people's opinions about Peter (and subsequently, Josh as an actor).

To get back to the original point, though, ultimately, this issue isn't about opinion. Who likes who, or who dislikes what. While there are qualifiable aspects to this (opinion-based), it's by far and away mostly a quantifiable problem (fact-based). Josh is a lead character and lead actor, and he's not getting the focus and airtime he should, not even in storylines that are about him.

OTOH, there is no way I can argue that the show doesn't give Olivia and Anna enough focus or time onscreen. Same with John. His screentime and focus cannot be in dispute. But Josh - who is equal in status with them - his focus and airtime IS an issue that can be disputed. He's clearly been shunted. And as Ph8 pointed out, the producers still act as if he's a main character. They have not said Josh/Peter has been demoted, therefore making my point moot.

If Josh/Peter *does* get officially demoted, then I no longer have a case, as he'll be in Reddick, Brown, and Nicole's ranks. But that hasn't happened.

Ill also add this, Josh Jackson wasnt happy with the role of his character or where they wanted to take it hed most likely leave, ops there I go again another "fanwank"....
Riiiight. I'm pretty sure Josh is smarter than David Caruso. He's also getting paid top dollar for pretty much not working. I'm not sure how many people in their right minds would voluntarily give that up rather than work within the system to get things to improve.

Not that it matters, since Josh shouldn't have to leave, he should have the job they hired him for. And BTW, I've seen a few articles asking why Josh does still stick around, with the shaft Fringe is currently giving him.

And heh. I think Ph8 needs to learn what the term "fanwank" actually means.

Rebe

05-24-2010, 04:45 PM

OTOH, there is no way I can argue that the show doesn't give Olivia and Anna enough focus or time onscreen. Same with John. His screentime and focus cannot be in dispute. But Josh - who is equal in status with them - his focus and airtime IS an issue that can be disputed. He's clearly been shunted. And as Ph8 pointed out, the producers still act as if he's a main character. They have not said Josh/Peter has been demoted, therefore making my point moot.

I agree with that.

bookworm2342

05-24-2010, 08:33 PM

Guys, this is a warning right now. If you can't start respecting each other and each other's opinions, I'm going to start giving out infractions. This is something that has been discussed a lot lately, and from skimming this thread everyone on here keeps saying the same things in different ways. Since not much has been resolved, just agree to disagree about this. I don't want to see a full blown argument break out, and it seems like that's where this is heading.

FlyingSpaghettiMonster

05-24-2010, 08:48 PM

Bibby/Monstar1/PeepingTom12?? We imdb'rs know it's you...

chamelean75

05-24-2010, 10:34 PM

Ph8

05-25-2010, 01:16 AM

Has there been an explanation as to why Walternate has the world destroying machine's plans?

I am hoping that in season 3, an explanation will be given as to why that machine only works with Peter's DNA and maybe more about the ZFT. I still have no idea who the ZFT people are in our world and if they really are trying to bring destruction to our world or even why they are doing what they are doing.

The machine was built by Bell (it was his "technology" as explained by Nine Sharp. The only thing I can think of is that Bell made it wo work with Peter only on purpose. The deal that Waler had with the Observers was that Peter could never go back (I think)...Knowing this it leads me to believe if Walter had kept up his part of the bargin, the use of the machine would never come into question as Peter would never be there to power it.

As far as the reviews go hopefully they werent from imdb ;) discussion boards. There are many people on there that will say something negative just to rile people up (its not the only place that does this). Ive taken a number of looks at articles pubished online and couldnt find any that are negative towards Josh Jackson and his Peter role with any type of ease. If I was puposely looking for them maybe I would, but I dont seek out things like that.

Alas, as bookworm has said I think this subject has run its course. Let just be excited for next season :)...

Quill

05-25-2010, 01:37 AM

The machine was built by Bell (it was his "technology" as explained by Nine Sharp.
We don't know that. It was Bell's design on *our* side. Where it came from on the other side hasn't been established. It's more likely Bell got the "idea" from seeing it on Walternate's side. He specifically said he and Walter were stealing ideas from the Other Side.

Another thing against it being Bell's idea - Bell worked with Walternate. Yet Walternate said it's "old tech" and he's tried to update parts of it with new technology. That implies it's something they found and adapted, not created from scratch.

Ive taken a number of looks at articles pubished online and couldnt find any that are negative towards Josh Jackson and his Peter role with any type of ease.
On average, there are about 60-80 articles and professional blogs (not including personal blogs) written about Fringe every week.

jade86

05-25-2010, 02:42 AM

I think the original machine was designed by the Observers because we saw in the prophecy it's an old tech. Then Bell and Walternate designed and build the machine adding new technologies.

Rebe

05-25-2010, 06:35 AM

I didn't mean for a fight to break out but yes, I will agree to disagree. I have said my piece.

bookworm2342

05-25-2010, 08:26 AM

Thread is closed by creator's request.