I find it hard to believe...

[cmcg16]

From the first episode alone, I find it very hard to believe that NO ONE from "our" side sees through Altivia's deception. Especially Peter... he knows that Olivia isn't the type of person who would jump right into a relationship, and be as bold as she is in the promo . Maybe its wishful thinking on his part, but I just don't buy it. I feel like maybe they all can be fooled for a day or two.. but if this whole arc is going to last a good part of the season I just can't believe no one will catch on. Her dissimilarities from Olivia are just so obvious!

[Omniscient_Jay]

^Excellent points, cmcg16.

However, there are many possibilities that could factor in the success of her infiltration so far:

-Though it is true that Peter knows Olivia, she is by nature an extremely guarded person. It is logical that our Olivia would open up to Peter after her emotional declaration to him in Over There Part 2, which is why Altlivia's outgoing nature doesn't seem out of place.

-As evidenced by the final scene of "Olivia", it would appear that the Fringe team have been quite busy in the days following their return to Over Here. When he meets up with Altlivia and Walter, he says that they can now move on with their lives. With all these things going on, I don't think Peter has been concentrating too much on scrutinizing Altlivia's mannerisms.

-Peter seemed pretty happy who he assumes to be Olivia. Perhaps he is too "blinded by love", for lack of a better term. As time goes on, however, I'm sure the team will begin to notice that one of their agents doesn't belong...

-Technically, with the alternating nature of Season 3, the Altlivia-arc will only technically take half the first part of the season. We'll have to wait half a season to see the resolution of the arc, but chronologically, the arc itself will take less time to resolve.

-Maybe Altlivia is just that damn good.:P

I'm liking things thus far, so it'll be interesting to see how this all plays out.:happy15:

[miley]

Or it's possible that he already knows, and is just keeping quiet about it for now. However, there have been no indications of this so far, just a possibility.

[Omniscient_Jay]

Or it's possible that he already knows, and is just keeping quiet about it for now. However, there have been no indications of this so far, just a possibility.

True; with nothing but a short five minute scene to go on, we'll just have to wait and see in order to make a more complete assessment of the situation...:confused0006:

[empty_encounters]

First of all, it's been established that the elapsed time between last season's finale and the end of "Olivia" is only a few days.

Second, we have to remember that we, the viewers, have a close to omniscient view: characters do not. Peter isn't a Fringe fan, he is a character in the Fringe universe.

If we never got to see the evidence of Altlivia's infiltration, if they were only showing episodes from our universe, we might figure it out in an episode or two because that's the point of following a show and it's sort of what we do here.

But it seems like fans are projecting their viewer perspective on to Peter. It's not like Broyles said "Welcome back to your home universe. We are now going to make sure you aren't actually your doubles."

Even if Peter wasn't in love with Olivia, he has no inherent reason to be paranoid about something like that happening. Basically, he isn't being unnatural at all. It'd be poor writing if he did figure it out quickly.

[Matthew]

Or it's possible that he already knows, and is just keeping quiet about it for now. However, there have been no indications of this so far, just a possibility.
I dont think he already knows, but I think he'll soon find out. Judging from the promos of the whole season we see a lot of Peter talking to Broyles and others about there being "two of us" and talking about reality being all perception.

[paladin24]

Peter still has a lot going on in his head that he has to deal with even without the romantic angle.

[Omniscient_Jay]

First of all, it's been established that the elapsed time between last season's finale and the end of "Olivia" is only a few days.

Second, we have to remember that we, the viewers, have a close to omniscient view: characters do not. Peter isn't a Fringe fan, he is a character in the Fringe universe.

If we never got to see the evidence of Altlivia's infiltration, if they were only showing episodes from our universe, we might figure it out in an episode or two because that's the point of following a show and it's sort of what we do here.

But it seems like fans are projecting their viewer perspective on to Peter. It's not like Broyles said "Welcome back to your home universe. We are now going to make sure you aren't actually your doubles."

Even if Peter wasn't in love with Olivia, he has no inherent reason to be paranoid about something like that happening. Basically, he isn't being unnatural at all. It'd be poor writing if he did figure it out quickly.

...I think this works better than my own arguments.:happy15::P

[Joe Curwen]

But it seems like fans are projecting their viewer perspective on to Peter. It's not like Broyles said "Welcome back to your home universe. We are now going to make sure you aren't actually your doubles."

Actually, that is what he would do. And then, after Peter debriefed them, they would take him and hide him in the deepest darkest dungeon the US government has. He would never be seen again.

The only thing I can think is that the government doesn't believe any of it. Otherwise it's a pretty big plot hole.


Even if Peter wasn't in love with Olivia, he has no inherent reason to be paranoid about something like that happening. Basically, he isn't being unnatural at all. It'd be poor writing if he did figure it out quickly.

To me, Peter has always been shown to be hyperfocused on Olivia. Virtually every episode he comments on even slight changes in her behavior. He makes note of her every mood - all one of them. I do not find it plausible that he wouldn't be suspicious of her almost immediately. I'm hoping that it will turn out that he already knows it's Altlivia.

--
Joe

[bookworm2342]

To me, Peter has always been shown to be hyperfocused on Olivia. Virtually every episode he comments on even slight changes in her behavior. He makes note of her every mood - all one of them. I do not find it plausible that he wouldn't be suspicious of her almost immediately. I'm hoping that it will turn out that he already knows it's Altlivia.


I agree with Peter being hyperfocused on Olivia. I'm hoping he figures it out soon, and then plays along (to an extent) while trying to find a way to get his Olivia back.

[empty_encounters]

Peter's loyalties have been strained though. What is to say he won't bond with Altlivia?

[tatka_sn]

What if Peter works for the other side? It would explain his hasty retreat to our universe (he was going back anyway, and Olivia provided opportunity, not reason), and his blindness to Alt-Olivia (he knows, and they play roles to all around them in order to conceal Alt-Olivia differences).
It’s a bit far-fetched theory, inspired by a comment about Peter's and Nina Sharp dubious nature in Blair Brown interview.

[number six]

To me, Peter has always been shown to be hyperfocused on Olivia. Virtually every episode he comments on even slight changes in her behavior. He makes note of her every mood - all one of them. I do not find it plausible that he wouldn't be suspicious of her almost immediately. I'm hoping that it will turn out that he already knows it's Altlivia.

--
Joe
This is actually my problem with Peter not noticing the switcheroo. For 2 seasons he's been studying Olivia and noticing every tiny change in her. Some people say that his hormones or his being in love are blinding him. Hormones don't work 24/7 and he's been in love for a while now, which never seemed to impair his thinking process. There is absolutely no reason for him not to notice. He should be the first one to notice within a few minutes of interaction with her. There is no way the writers can make him so dumb in a realistic way.

[Pyrite]

To me, Peter has always been shown to be hyperfocused on Olivia. Virtually every episode he comments on even slight changes in her behavior. He makes note of her every mood - all one of them. I do not find it plausible that he wouldn't be suspicious of her almost immediately. I'm hoping that it will turn out that he already knows it's Altlivia.

I agree with this.

[chamelean75]

It seems like the events of season 3 take place very recently after the season 2 finale, perhaps only a few days or so. We'll see more in the next episode of course.

BUT, anyone else think that Peter might be blinded by love?? :shiny:

Perhaps he thinks that since Olivia is opening up to him, she is different... i mean, they pretty much only see each other at work, they have not exactly, "dated".

[philpy1999]

What if Peter works for the other side? It would explain his hasty retreat to our universe (he was going back anyway, and Olivia provided opportunity, not reason), and his blindness to Alt-Olivia (he knows, and they play roles to all around them in order to conceal Alt-Olivia differences).


I like this idea!

I highly doubt that Peter would be comfortable with the idea of destroying 'our' universe in order to save his, but perhaps he has come back in order to find another way?

In a strange way, WE are the bad side. It was us (via Walter) that caused the major problems happening over there, it was US (via Elizabeth) that didn't let an innocent little boy go home to his real parents.

If this story was about a mad scientist from over there causing people we love to be killed or encased in amber, we would be rooting for that scientist to pay dearly for what he has done. We would be rooting for anybody helping that scientist to pay also......

[tatka_sn]

What if Peter works for the other side
...in order to save his (universe)... WE are the bad side To contradict my own theory:ashamed0001::
In those conditions he must understand that they left Olivia on the other side, and even if there was any deal about it with Walternate, Peter is not naive enough to believe that no harm would come to Olivia.

The conscious decision alone (to leave her there) would be betrayal so huge that all things Walter have ever done (to person - nothing can beat destroying of universe :)) would fade in comparison.

[justkickit]

The one thing I find extremely annoying about the writers with regard to Peter, is that they never write him consistently. They change the way he acts to further the plot and they do this every time.

All the points people have brought up about why he hasn't noticed, Peter knows Olivia, etc, are totally valid. Again, you have Peter not realistically noticing the changes in Olivia just to facilitate the story arc of altOlivia infiltrating our side. It is so annoying and it must drive the actor crazy to see his character being always used as a plot device. I honestly think he has no idea it is the wrong altOlivia and I think that is such poor writing by the writers and awful on the producers side, that they think the audience will accept it no questions asked.

From one episode to the next, I'm always wondering what the writers are going to change Peter too next. It's a big negative about the show in my opinion and makes me sad, because Peter is one of my favourite characters on the show.

[number six]

All the points people have brought up about why he hasn't noticed, Peter knows Olivia, etc, are totally valid.
I disagree with most of your post, so I'll just quote the part I agree with: Logically, he should be the first one to notice, but let's accept the fact, that they will make an idiot of him for drama's sake. But what about the others? Peter is not the only one, who knows Olivia. Are they all suddenly dim, too? Walter might be crazy, but he's far from slow. Broyles has known Olivia for 2 years, but apparently that won't count, either.

Just as I suspected, the writers aren't making Altlivia work to keep her cover, they are relying on the stupidity of the characters and going against how they've been written in the previous 2 seasons. Judging by the previews alone, Altlivia is just terrible at impersonating Olivia and we have to believe, that she will fool everyone for I don't know how many episodes. All of this because, you know, a love polygon (any bets Olivia will hook up with Altlivia's boyfriend? ;) ) is absolutely necessary in the show :rolleyes:

[tatka_sn]

...they are relying on the stupidity of the characters... because, you know, a love polygon... is absolutely necessary in the show
It seems so obvious when you say it in so many words, and such a stupid thing to do, that I begin to think it must be deliberate from writers. To make us all upset before some big boom.

[number six]

It seems so obvious when you say it in so many words, and such a stupid thing to do, that I begin to think it must be deliberate from writers. To make us all upset before some big boom.
Why would they do that? Upsetting me doesn't make me want to watch the show, quite the opposite.

The thing is that knowing there's going to be an idiotic Altlivia/Peter/Olivia/Frank story disappoints me, because the show is not about that and I don't see how they can make this work without destroying the work they've done with the characters till now.

*sigh* As long as the rest is excellent, I can easily detach myself from this story line and enjoy the sexy scenes or laugh at how stupid our favorite characters are, because I'm shallow like that.

[LordManhammer]

Since Peter is my favorite character, I feel that people are overestimating him, especially because it has only been a couple of days since the switch. I agree that he is "hyperfocused on Olivia," but I keep having to remind myself that he IS with Olivia. And yes, she is "slightly different" coming from another universe where she made different choices and as a result is a slightly different person. (In fact, I find it amusing that we could all argue about Nature vs. Nurture here). And yes, she is different from our Olivia as we saw in the S2 finale, and they writers found it important enough to mention, when Bolivia said "I don't know who you are, but I'm nothing like you. You know, he was right." But at the same time, she is Olivia. Just like Walter would have ended up like Walternate if Belly had not taken his memories.

I still hope, however, that Peter is the first to discover her deception, in light of the fact that they did a lot of focusing on him noticing her, my favorite moment being "You do that thing with your mouth when you're upset."

[redsimmy]

Walter knows. He gave her the look when she was asking about his wallabies (shoes i think?)

[Avenged]

Oh no, please. Don't mess up the established relationships by having Olivia fall for Frank. If anything, I'd like to see her rage at being switched like that. I was SO hoping that, when Lincoln said "I've been your partner for two years", Liv would retort "You've never been my partner and I won't feel remorse shooting you in the face".

[Abe]

I see it two ways:

character: Peter knows that he didn't kiss the real Olivia

writers: they will drag it out for several episodes until Peter realizes Olivia was switched

Early season2 the writers did not let the characters figure out that Charlie was dead for much too long. It will happen again with Dunham.

[tatka_sn]

To make us all upset before some big boomWrong choice of word due to school-learnt English long time ago, sorry. I rather meant something like excited (all those subtleties in English :confused0066:)
But really, are there valid reasons for Peter not to notice it's not Olivia? He is not that young and impressionable to be "blinded by love". Besides his "Olivia-hyperfocus", there were two things which made it impossible for more then two days: him actually meeting AltOlivia and Charlie's debacle at the beginning of season 2.
So, he has all information except the fact about switch. Here goes another theory:
It's relatively calm time for him, there is no need to make tough decisions on the run now (or run at all). It seems to me that he must be missing all his clues deliberately. Maybe buries his head in the sand. Because if he stops for a moment and acknowledges any discrepancies he must steer their calm ... do something immediately (if not yesterday:))

[number six]

Wrong choice of word due to school-learnt English long time ago, sorry. I rather meant something like excited (all those subtleties in English :confused0066:)
But really, are there valid reasons for Peter not to notice it's not Olivia? He is not that young and impressionable to be "blinded by love". Besides his "Olivia-hyperfocus", there were two things which made it impossible for more then two days: him actually meeting AltOlivia and Charlie's debacle at the beginning of season 2.
So, he has all information except the fact about switch. Here goes another theory:
It's relatively calm time for him, there is no need to make tough decisions on the run now (or run at all). It seems to me that he must be missing all his clues deliberately. Maybe buries his head in the sand. Because if he stops for a moment and acknowledges any discrepancies he must steer their calm ... do something immediately (if not yesterday:))
I see, what you mean now, thanks! :)

But you see, Peter is not the only one over here, that knows Olivia. Broyles and Astrid have known her for as long as Peter. Walter has known her for even longer. What about them? Are they burying their heads in the sand, too? None of them are stupid and two of them are geniuses.

We still have to wait and watch the next episode to see how good or bad Altlivia is at impersonating Olivia. Right now it's too soon for Peter and Walter to notice anything too alarming.

[xevious]

Peter is indeed very observant of Olivia. So... what if he catches a glimpse of that tattoo? It won't have any meaning for him, or at least whatever alternate Fringe division meaning it has shouldn't be apparent. He'll have to ask her about it (no doubt wondering where/when she had the time to do it!). How she reacts will tell him a lot.

Again, so little time pn this so far... hard to say anything about what Peter knows. Need more episodes. ;)

[Omniscient_Jay]

Again, so little time on this so far... hard to say anything about what Peter knows. Need more episodes. ;)

This was my exact sentiment from the onset.:happy15:

There's not enough information at this point to make a proper assessment of the alleged stupidity/blindness of Peter and the gang.:confused0006:

[ckorniejczuk]

Please, let's stop bashing the producers and/or writers of such a wonderful show based on so little info!!
None of us knows if Peter knows about Altivia or not, but my guess is that he will, and soon. Let's remember that he is really smart!

[Joe Curwen]

The one thing I find extremely annoying about the writers with regard to Peter, is that they never write him consistently. They change the way he acts to further the plot and they do this every time.

All the points people have brought up about why he hasn't noticed, Peter knows Olivia, etc, are totally valid. Again, you have Peter not realistically noticing the changes in Olivia just to facilitate the story arc of altOlivia infiltrating our side. It is so annoying and it must drive the actor crazy to see his character being always used as a plot device. I honestly think he has no idea it is the wrong altOlivia and I think that is such poor writing by the writers and awful on the producers side, that they think the audience will accept it no questions asked.

From one episode to the next, I'm always wondering what the writers are going to change Peter too next. It's a big negative about the show in my opinion and makes me sad, because Peter is one of my favourite characters on the show.


Every word of this post right. Even the punctuation has the ring of truth.

The reason I post about this now, before the next episodes have aired, is because of what Joshua Jackson said in his last interview. He clearly says that it will take Peter multiple episodes to figure out Olivia is really Altlivia. Since the actor felt this information was important enough to release now, I feel free to say how ridiculous it is. True, it may turn out that JJ is lying and something completely different will happen. I hope it does.

As I said before, Peter is used as the writers' Swiss Army knife of plot contrivance. It doesn't matter if he is made to look like a genius one week and the fool the next if the story is advanced.

The story they are trying to advance is all about Olivia. The writers needed to change her character, make her sexier and help her find the fun. They have to do this for ratings, mostly. It could be that the new and improved Olivia we will have in the second half of the season will be worth the damage done to the other characters and the show's plausibility in general.

--
Joe

[tatka_sn]

let's stop bashing the producers and/or writers of such a wonderful show based on so little info!!

I think that "obvious" and "stupid" in my comment were rather applied to me as a fan who makes speculations basing on the one percent information, not to writers/producers. But it's fun to make theories, isn't it? :D

Peter is not the only one over here, that knows Olivia. Broyles and Astrid... Walter...
Point taken, but I can make excuses for them! The most informal relationship is Olivia/Peter, that’s why I’m concentrating on Peter (and this is the reason why there is no Rachel or Ella in first 5 episodes – because they’d smell something wrong even quicker). The more formal relationship is, the easier it is to fake. And O/Broyles is formal in its appearances (even if he cares about her). Astrid – we all know how little Olivia speaks to her on screen. And we all remember how good Walter is at keeping secrets. It seems to me that Walter, if he recognize not-Olivianess, can have enough reasons (unpredictable from our point of view for now) to keep that info for himself.
Of course, after episode 2 all those theories would be rethought.

...Peter is used as the writers' Swiss Army knife of plot contrivance... I've never been invested in Peter as a character (am invested in him as a plot device, sorry :ashamed0001:), so I didn't really notice inconsistensies.
Please, can somebody provide a link to discussion or an article on this topic?

[doremi123]

I do hope Peter will be the first who knows her deception and reveal it fast. But Walternate talking about memory transfer. What if he takes Olivia's memory out and transfer it later to Alt-Olivia so she knows much about Peter, Walter and the others (although alt-Olivia acting differently than Olivia).

[Peet]

Everyone just needs to stop bashing, and realise that we're watching one of the greatest shows on television right now :)

I trust the writers enough to let them do their thing. This show seems to have one of the most well developed (and still developing) mythologies that I've ever seen.

So, let's welcome all these new developments, because the stupider or crazier they may seem now, the better it's going to be when they all pan out and create the magic that is Fringe.

:)

[tatka_sn]

...What if he[Walternate ] takes Olivia's memory out and transfer it later to Alt-Olivia... I think we can eliminate method used on Olivia, as it completely rewrites personality. And I think it requires a lot of previously donated blood (amount not possible to obtain in one try). There was reminder in pilot that all FBI agents had their own blood bank stash, so it is believable that Walternate had enough AltOlivia’s blood on his disposal and not the same for the Olivia’s blood
If there were other means to use real Olivia memory, that can be debatable.

Everyone just needs to … realise that we're watching one of the greatest shows
That I realize … but the need to speculate is otherwhelming :)

[paladin24]

Keep in mind the alternating nature of the episodes this season between universes, and that only half of them are going to be in our world for some time. This will make everything *seem* to take twice as long as it actually does in real time.

[vesh1717]

I love this show so much, but that being said, the more I think about this EP, the more I dislike it. There were so many things that annoyed me, including what the OP is talking about.

I said this at the end of season 2 - If this drags on for half of the year, I am going to be very disapointed. There is NO WAY Peter would believe that this is the real Olivia. I mean, the are so many things that would be different about this Olivia, including memories that she would not have access to. It just doesn't make sense since Peter is such a smart guy. MAYBE if Peter didn't know there was another Olivia he might not figure it out, but since he KNOWS there is another Olivia, you would think he would evntually (within 1-2 days) he would realize it

[Six-fingered Girl]

MAYBE if Peter didn't know there was another Olivia he might not figure it out, but since he KNOWS there is another Olivia, you would think he would evntually (within 1-2 days) he would realize it

Right. Or at least *consider* the possibility and be on the lookout for clues. He's always been a skeptic, and I see no reason for that changing. I guess we'll find out. It's still too early to be jumping to conclusions about this, and Peter could end up having completely plausible reasons for either being totally fooled or at least refusing to admit to the truth. He does have his own problems.

[Omniscient_Jay]

Right. Or at least *consider* the possibility and be on the lookout for clues. He's always been a skeptic, and I see no reason for that changing. I guess we'll find out. It's still too early to be jumping to conclusions about this, and Peter could end up having completely plausible reasons for either being totally fooled or at least refusing to admit to the truth. He does have his own problems.

Exactly. :happy15:

All we can do at this point is make conjectures, seeing as we don't have nearly enough information to make a solid judgment on Peter's actions.

We should all criticize Peter's gullibility in retrospect, not in..prespect? Antespect? Bah, you know what I mean.;)

[ElectricSheep]

^ anticipation, perhaps? ;)

[Omniscient_Jay]

^ anticipation, perhaps? ;)

...yes, that's about right...:ashamed0004: