Feeling like I'm committing adultery here but....

[Akira]

I'm really like alter-Olivia. It's pretty subtle how she's different from our Olivia. She's not so...intense? I realize that she's putting on some sort of show, but I wonder how much of it is actually just a difference of character. What do you think? Thoughts on alter-Olivia.

them making out was awesome!! wish it wasn't ****blocked by Broyles all the time. Even if it's alter-Olivia. In the end, it's anna torv and joshua jackson kissing. fine by me :P

[eveybane]

I'm really like alter-Olivia. It's pretty subtle how she's different from our Olivia. She's not so...intense? I realize that she's putting on some sort of show, but I wonder how much of it is actually just a difference of character.

I'm guessing quite a bit different. I doubt Olivia would shoot a deaf guy in the back of the head just because he accidentally saw something he shouldn't have. Altlivia did seem to have a small conflict of conscience beforehand, though. She even apologized to the guy. How sweet of her. xP

[chamelean75]

Well, Altolivia/Bolivia, with the exception of Peter and Walter sees us all as monsters. As long as she keeps up with those types of thoughts, her consciousness will never shine through.

She is very task oriented. She will get it done no matter how many lives it would cost.

[Six-fingered Girl]

It's weird with AltLivia, because she looks like our Olivia, and I keep expecting the person we know and love to jump out from behind the curtain and say, "Gotcha!" If I didn't know she was the same person, I don't think I would be as uncomfortable with her. Granted, if she were a different person, that was defeat the whole purpose. I gotta hand it to the crew, I find the two women very different, which is what makes the whole situation so unnerving in the first place, if that makes any sense.

And AltLivia has done nothing yet to endear herself to me. Even her rescue of Peter was self-serving, because he's necessary for the machine to work. At this point in the story, I think she should still be detestable, because she's still the enemy and is working on a mission for her side.

Oh! And how awkward was it watching her try to be all "comforting" to Peter when he came over? Ugh, I almost felt bad for the woman. ;)

[CaptainSuoivbo]

^^ This. It makes me uncomfortable to watch her because I keep thinking she's Olivia and then she goes and does something like shoot a deaf man. It is defiantly unnerving and I suspect that's what the show runners want us to feel.

[CaptainSuoivbo]

oops double post

[empty_encounters]

Not to sound like a jerk or anything, but since when is deaf a condition that is worthy of "no killing". It's not like she shot a child. In fact that man was still a criminal thug if you think about it.

[RodimusBen]

About the only good thing about Alt-Olivia is that playing her brings out a sexier side of Anna Torv. Other than that, she gives me the creeps.

Well, that's how I feel right now. If the show wants to be really challenging, it will present her as complex and not just a villain.

[gillybee]

Well his being deaf meant that
a) he won't have heard her coming
b) he won't of heard her apology

We have seen our Olivia kill but she has always done it for the right reasons there could have been another way out rather than just killing him. She could have got him to leave town saying she was going to give him a break by not bringing him in.

[quarteralien]

As I said in the other thread, I don't think she was planning on going any further than kissing. She was counting on getting those phone calls based on when she gave Newton the box. She was just killing time. Just like she found an excuse not to call Peter and investigate the apartment alone, I think she will continue to find excuses to just toy with him, but not technically cheat with him.

And I agree that shooting and unsuspecting person in the back is not very nice. But I was surprised how much I enjoyed the episode overall. I'm excited for the rest of the season, unlike last week.

[jophan]

I doubt Olivia would shoot a deaf guy in the back of the head just because he accidentally saw something he shouldn't have.
But she shot a cop in "The Man From The Other Side" assuming he was a shapeshifter. She turned out to be right, but she didn't really have that much evidence. Even as it stands, she's never attempted to capture a shapeshifter, only killed them out of hand. This has something to do with tight timing, but it is what it is.

[monsefoster]

I still don't like her.

[JB]

The reason I like our Olivia is that she is more "intense" and complex. Altlivia is like "Olivia lite"--superficial, boring, normal, no depth.

[nalex1013]

Well his being deaf meant that
a) he won't have heard her coming
b) he won't of heard her apology

We have seen our Olivia kill but she has always done it for the right reasons there could have been another way out rather than just killing him. She could have got him to leave town saying she was going to give him a break by not bringing him in.


Bolivia is trying to save her world. That's an alright reason to kill.

[trishy81]

Hmm...interesting thread. I like the personality differences we're seeing in the two Olivias. I thought that, more than anything, she was putting on a front for Peter as far as the "lite version" was concerned. She seemed quite intense in the scenes with Newton.

I like both Olivias at this point.

[gillybee]

But she shot a cop in "The Man From The Other Side" assuming he was a shapeshifter. She turned out to be right, but she didn't really have that much evidence. Even as it stands, she's never attempted to capture a shapeshifter, only killed them out of hand. This has something to do with tight timing, but it is what it is.

Shapeshifters are not human, she shot the cop by the bridge because he used his mobile phone rather than his radio to contact his superior.


Bolivia is trying to save her world. That's an alright reason to kill.

There is more than one way to skin a cat I just felt she didn't need to kill him that's all.

[Atsuro]

I like her a little more than Olivia, but that's mostly because Olivia broods a bit too much for me.


Shapeshifters are not human, she shot the cop by the bridge because he used his mobile phone rather than his radio to contact his superior.

Nor is my pet cat, but that doesn't mean it's ok to shoot it in the face.

What if there was an issue with his radio and he had no choice, but to use his cell phone? She didn't know what was up with him she just shot first.


There is more than one way to skin a cat I just felt she didn't need to kill him that's all.

Yes she did because he could have told someone else. Fringe is looking for that item and she couldn't have risked the chance of him running into one of them.

[eilcon]

I think Bolivia shot the man to prove to Newton that she was capable of taking care of things as well as he is. It almost seemed like he challenged her. She did not want to appear weak to him.

[gillybee]

Nor is my pet cat, but that doesn't mean it's ok to shoot it in the face.
What if there was an issue with his radio and he had no choice, but to use his cell phone? She didn't know what was up with him she just shot first.

They where hunting Newton a known shapeshifter, they knew that more than one shapeshifter had recently arrived from over there. Once he when for his radio she was left with very little time to make a decision she went with her gut and shot to the head as that is the only sure way of killing a shapeshifter.



Yes she did because he could have told someone else. Fringe is looking for that item and she couldn't have risked the chance of him running into one of them.

I agreed with what eilcon has written below she killed him to show Newton she was in full control of the situation.


I think Bolivia shot the man to prove to Newton that she was capable of taking care of things as well as he is. It almost seemed like he challenged her. She did not want to appear weak to him.

At that stage she was under no pressure to kill him there and then. She did because she could not because she really needed to what had the guy actually seen? Did he actually see Newton? He most certainly wasn't able to hear their conversation or read their lips. There is a power struggle between her and Newton and that for me is the only reason she killed him. They had the box so they were holding the cards and why would anyone believe a common criminal over a respected FBI agent?

[RodimusBen]

I think it was pretty clearly intended by the writers for Alt-Olivia's murder of the deaf criminal to be an odious act. It was meant to be shocking and something that Olivia would not do. While the lines of self-defense and murder are not always crystal clear, I simply can't equivocate the killing of a non-human shapeshifter who had murderous intent with the slaying of a defenseless (at the time) human who did not pose a physical threat to Alt-Olivia.

[CaptainSuoivbo]

I agree with RodimusBen. It would be interesting to see if Olivia was ever put so far behind enemy lines on the other side, that murder would be necessary or the go to option.

[Tritium]

I'm gonna give it maybe 4 episodes until Peter figures it out. He has a lot on his mind right now so I don't think he's actively looking for reasons to be suspicious of Olivia, but Peter's intelligence has been a significant plot point and I think it's only a matter of time before he catches on. The scene in Olivia's apartment and the scene in the bar ("I've never known you to express an interest in music") were just the beginning, and I think as time goes on Peter will be unable to ignore Fauxlivia's true identity.

However, I don't think he'll expose her right away. Working closely with an agent from Over There who is forced to trust him will give Peter a significant advantage for gathering intel. He'll expose her eventually, but not until it makes sense to do so - if he were to expose her now, then she'd likely run off and disappear.

[number six]

I think it was pretty clearly intended by the writers for Alt-Olivia's murder of the deaf criminal to be an odious act. It was meant to be shocking and something that Olivia would not do. While the lines of self-defense and murder are not always crystal clear, I simply can't equivocate the killing of a non-human shapeshifter who had murderous intent with the slaying of a defenseless (at the time) human who did not pose a physical threat to Alt-Olivia.
If Altlivia was a disposable character before, that very act made her even more disposable.

[Andi]

I agree with Tritium. I think Peter's going to figure it out very soon. I'm just surprised he hasn't already.

And I know you have to suspend your disbelief for this show, but I have a hard time believing it would be so easy to step into someone else's life. Even if it's alter-you. So many little things in a person's life are unknown ~ relationships, little jokes you make, habitual sayings and expressions, etc. It just seems like you'd slip up pretty darn quickly.

[queenbeesteph]

I think the Olivia/Bolivia differences are great examples of showing how environment shapes you. You take our Olivias, born of the same parents, but have one parent die early in life for one, one be given cortexiphan injections and experimented on, one have a photographic memory vs. one with two parents and maybe not a crazy step dad,perhaps having normal childhood experiences, one being the best in the world at shooting and winning a gold medal, and so on... Even though they are the same, they are most definitely NOT the same, and who better to reveal that than a child (Ella). Children seem naturally intuitive (is that why Bell and Walter experimented on children). Olivia and Ella have connections which Bolivia will not know, or can't fake, when Ella brings them up! Ella will be suspicious right away!


"Uncle Walter, something's wrong with Aunt Liv..."

[tjb1378]

First post. I just caught up with Fringe, watching season one after Lost ended, and Season 2 once the DVDs came out (plus 4 episodes purchased on Amazon when Netflix couldn’t keep up).

I, um, don’t like Faux-livia. I’m not sure not as complex is the right description. She seems to have a normal and healthy relationship with Frank, but is completely emotionally detached at work – she routinely ignores the gravity of the situation. She’s an act first, think later, feel maybe girl, and I like haunted.

Also, she’s less of a leader really. She has yet to question authority or ponder that maybe she’s not being told everything, which Our-livia would not do – can you see Faux-livia busting into Nina Sharp’s office, accusing her of something bad, and demanding the truth? Faux-livia would long ago have simply gone to work for her.

I get why others like her—still smart, still wisecracking, still tough and still Anna Torv. I assume they will make her more likable as time goes on, even to sorts like me. While I like seeing that these people are doing what they think is right, I also see an intentional effort to encourage the development of a Team Blue vs. Team Red fan split, a la Team Jacob vs. Team MiB, which I find a touch annoying.

FWIW-My gut tells me they won’t have Peter won’t figure it out, instead having someone more peripheral notice it for a specific reason (Ella? Sam Weiss?). I hope they do this soon, before it borders on plot hole to have both Walter and Peter go on noticing nothing.

[Six-fingered Girl]

Also, she’s less of a leader really. She has yet to question authority or ponder that maybe she’s not being told everything, which Our-livia would not do – can you see Faux-livia busting into Nina Sharp’s office, accusing her of something bad, and demanding the truth? Faux-livia would long ago have simply gone to work for her.


I haven't seen anyone make this point yet, but it's so true! She follows orders like any dedicated soldier, but she does not seem to have a drive to go beyond what she's told, accepting everything at face value, and never questioning or investigating further (which is what got our Olivia into deep water with Fringe Division in the first place!). The scene when she meets Walternate has some tidbits of this, because although she's read his ZFT and understands the publicly accepted version of Fringe events, it was Lincoln who thought outside the box and managed to conclude that other universes exist. Altlivia doesn't seem to be very inquisitive, I guess I would say.

Like her or not, this contrast, and all these differences we're turning up between the two 'Livias is fascinating and fun! It just goes to show how well we know our own version! :D

[Omniscient_Jay]

I love Olivia, regardless of which incarnation of her is depicted onscreen.

They are, at their very core, the same person, after all. They're both soldiers on a mission who strive to protect the worlds and people they hold dear.

What's not to like?:happy15:

[dcwombat]

I thought Alt-livia was evil when she first crossed over but it looks like shes comming around and maybe falling for peter? i sense problems with peter and his olivia relationship

[Cortexiphan]

I thought Alt-livia was evil when she first crossed over but it looks like shes comming around and maybe falling for peter? i sense problems with peter and his olivia relationship

Likewise :( they barely got together but now separated already *sighs*
I really wanna know whats gonna happen when Peter finds out Fauxlivia actually isn't his Olivia...i mean he has done more than what he's supposed to in less than 4 episodes and it took him 2 friggin' years [43 episodes] to realize how important Ourlivia to him. Thats not fair...
He better chases after Ourlivia and do all the romantic things when Ourlivia gets back to OverHere world, or else... :what: