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D-Roc

10-09-2008, 05:04 PM

Please note - I don't profess this theory to be correct, it is probably extremely far wide of the mark, and open to a massive leap of faith. However I have noticed a few elements from the opening 4 episodes, which I hope to be able to build upon with any feedback or contributions/critisms and of course, future episodes from which to gleam further information from. :party0011:

CREATION

Imagine a time when life was first created. Some call it the big bang - the event which spawned our Universe and the life within it. Others, myself included, believe in the creator of all things (AKA GOD). Whatever your belief, imagine not one big bang, or moment of creation..but TWO.

I believe that Fringe will explore the dimentional convergance or, the 7th dimension - the line between two realities. Where realities meld together to allow different objects, events and patterns to occupy the same 'space' within different time frequencies.

============

Imagine The Possibilities

In the 7th dimension all things are still possible. You could die in this reality..

http://www.fringe-forum.com/forums/images/img/103_js.jpg

...yet be alive in the shadow reality. So your spirit is still here, waiting, watching, observing:

http://www.fringe-forum.com/forums/images/img/104js.jpg

Once you've pushed your head through the door and you've become aware of the other side, it must be there, since you've observed it, you've seen it. (Has William Bell seen it? Where's he at?)

Technology & Science - Ahead of The Curve

I believe that science that technology from the likes of Massive Dynamic, and the numerous other entities in the show, have found a way to push mankind beyond the level of capability that we should have. However, not all of the technology is organically derived - some of it consists of encrypted ancient technology and artifacts which have been cracked and decoded by advanced technologies from then future.

This has caused a destabilization in the world. We have technology that is too powerful for those without the responsibility to use it wisely. However, the technology has also given us hope..hope that we can save ourselves from the impending castastrophe that awaits our world. But more on that later.

=============

The Observer
The Observer is a future representation of mankind..a future where reality has no longer exists on the plain of emotion. He and his people are trying to understand where it went wrong for our world. They are observing our reality to reconnect their future knowledge and to help us avert the impending disaster that will change the face of humanity. Their observation of our reality ensures that reality as we know it exists. Their task is to identify those key to safe-guarding the future realities of mankind. To be updated.

Back to Reality

But how can these two realities be linked? ..is there a link? I'd say yes - "cause and effect". The very reason we look for patterns, to attempt to make sense of our actions or the actions of others. Is this what our Observer is doing - observing the stream of patterns which flow between our two realities?

http://www.fringe-forum.com/forums/images/img/104sept15.jpg

Are the events in our world, part of another reality also?

Do they suffer for our greed? Are the faults in our world, the consequence of theirs? Is there a link..a pattern?

But what IS the 7th dimension..

I believe that in itself, this line, this 7th dimension, is a gateway - a door, or perhaps a 'state' - similar to a dream state. The place where the mind is free from the body. An open-mind means an open gateway. I believe we've already seen signs of this 7th dimension opening and closing:

http://www.fringe-forum.com/forums/images/img/101blue2.JPG

http://www.fringe-forum.com/forums/images/img/104blue2.jpg

When Olivia and John's 'minds' are occupying the same space, there are different memories (time) converging..an example of objects (or entities) occupying the same space in different time realities. Notice all the blue lights? As has been discussed elsewhere on the forum, these lights appear all over the place in real-time. Yet they also appeared during the dream state - a gateway between two minds:

http://www.fringe-forum.com/forums/images/img/101blue12.JPG

Is this blue light therefore indicative of a gateway..the 7th dimension..two realities? If something is not part of 'our' timeline, then it makes sense for us to only see a glimmer before the frequency disconnects. Is this what the blue lights represent?

On a related note: Walter's description of the night that The Observer rescued himself and Peter seemed very angelesque - a hand from up above pulling them from the river of despair. "Heavenly.. yet also earthly" (just like a rootbeer float after 17 years).

Now bear in mind what Walter said to Peter about reconsidering the way in which we communicate - if thought alone can knowingly or unknowingly plant seeds in another persons head, imagine the possibilities of positive thought, goodwill, prayer..and all of the opposites.

I suspect, if the writers do ever plan on taking the show in this direction and tackling the idea of 'God', that this is how they may approach it. The above mentioned episode 4 scene between Peter and Walter has explicitly informed us that in Fringe, at least, humans are more connected than we might otherwise think.

Connections..connections that lead to a pattern..patterns that link two realities. But like I mentioned last week (http://fringe-forum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4497&postcount=6) in my 'We Are The Observers' thread - what is a reality, if it is not observed..if a tree falls in the forest and there is no-one there to observe it, has it really fallen..and is there really a forest?..

============
Further evidence of dimensional convergance was seen in episode 1.09 "The Dreamscape". Upon returning to the tank to actively retrive more living memories from that of John Scott, Olivia enters into her unconscious, there she revisits a scene from her and John's first date. It's important to note that this visitation is full of flashing blue lights (like those mentioned above), and that the start of her 'dream state' consists of 'space' and what I believe to be a physical and sybolic 'doorway':

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540542538543544

I believe that the blue flashes are further evidence of realities (or dimensions) fusing together. The intensity of the flashes might be indicative of the strength of the link between the realties at any given point, or they could be the result of the refraction caused by the covergance of different light frequencies.

Wondermind

10-09-2008, 10:48 PM

The place where the mind is free from the body.

Sounds like astral projection. I use to do studies on this in my early college days.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astral_projection

Good stuff here overall D-Roc! A lot to digest but your thoughts definately have merit. Hopefully, we can expound on this as time goes on. I will add to this later but now it is late and I am sleepy. :indifferent0028:

Wondermind

10-10-2008, 09:20 AM

OK, it’s morning and I’m awake now.
:@787@: :chairdance: :bliss:

I like your thought process as you bring in the possibility of the 7th dimension aspect. It is as most physicist theorize, the point in which all possible realities converge, merge or split off depending on your reference point. As I had stated as well on other post along this line of thought, is that I feel there may be alternate realities or parallel universes that split off from our own. Are we living in the Alpha section and all others are mirror images of ours. Or are we just copies or doppelgangers of one created prior to our existence, who knows. I find the whole thing intriguing anyway. For every action there is a reaction, cause and effect as you stated, yin and yang, proton and anti-protons, matter and anti-matter, visible matter and dark matter, Alpha and Omega, ect ect…..! I like how you tie all your thoughts together and bring them back into the plausibility of the 7th dimension concept. :happy15:
But let me end by saying this, as in the concept of Alpha and Omega if you will, life, nature and reality moves in circles. We start with the 0th dimension and end with the 10th which in effect is the beginning again.

http://morenews.blogspot.com/2006/09/7th-dimension-is-infinity.html (http://morenews.blogspot.com/2006/09/7th-dimension-is-infinity.html)
- The 0th dimension is the dot. You don't need any numbers to identify its position.
- The first dimension is the line. You need one number to identify the distance of one dot to another dot.
- the second dimension is the plane. You need two numers to identify a point on a plane.
- space is the third dimension
- space time is the fourth dimension: it requires four numbers to place a dot in space-time. 3 for the spacial position, and one for the time.
- The 5th dimension is the first dimension in which the notion of possible worlds starts needing to be used. One requires 7dimensions to cover all the possible worlds that would have started from the same initial conditions as ours.
- The other dimensions cover the possible worlds that start with different initial conditions as ours.
- The tenth dimension where we stop because we have by then covered all imaginable possible worlds, so there is not further place we can conceiveably go.

Another good site:
http://www.tenthdimension.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=770

This is a good thread. I hope it continues. :party0011:

goodfellabrasco

10-17-2008, 11:31 PM

Interesting stuff! I love the theory, but I'm unsure as to how far the Fringe writers are going to take it...it seems like the "fringe" topics in each episode are at least grounded in regular science; interdimensional crossings might be a bit heady even for this show. Although...the theory holds promise with the John Scott dead/undead? mind only undead? scenario. I'm excited to see what other thoughts the fringe blog holds on this topic!

D-Roc

11-21-2008, 02:40 PM

D-Roc

11-21-2008, 03:09 PM

Sounds like astral projection. I use to do studies on this in my early college days.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astral_projection

It is quite similar to Astral projection, and I'm confident that this will be involved in some level (perhaps it already has with Walter's "visitor" appearing in The Equation. Although in regards to the gateway or dimension, I see it more as an opening and closing (or 'shrinking) between the different levels of consciousness, from the physical interactions and observations, to the subconscious explorations. I agree though, Astral Projection could fit in here somewhere.:happy15:

OK, it’s morning and I’m awake now.
:@787@: :chairdance: :bliss:

I like your thought process as you bring in the possibility of the 7th dimension aspect. It is as most physicist theorize, the point in which all possible realities converge, merge or split off depending on your reference point. As I had stated as well on other post along this line of thought, is that I feel there may be alternate realities or parallel universes that split off from our own. Are we living in the Alpha section and all others are mirror images of ours. Or are we just copies or doppelgangers of one created prior to our existence, who knows. I find the whole thing intriguing anyway. For every action there is a reaction, cause and effect as you stated, yin and yang, proton and anti-protons, matter and anti-matter, visible matter and dark matter, Alpha and Omega, ect ect…..! I like how you tie all your thoughts together and bring them back into the plausibility of the 7th dimension concept.
Great stuff, you're definitely intune with my line of thinking on this. In truth, these alternate realities or dimensions, may only appear alternate because so few people are able to observe them with any rational findings. However, with technology pushing us onto new platforms and through new frontiers, it's becoming less and less easy to seperate these 'mediums', if you will. Could the blue flashes referenced in the top post, be an indication of the closeness of the various dimnesions- almost like how an eclipse represents the closeness of the moon as it crosses between our earth and the sun?..

You raise a good point - which universe or dimension are we living in..and which ones are the mirrors? Could this also be why Olivia is so important - are there other Olivia's in other dimensions who have some enourmous importance in thier respective spheres? Of course, the thought of this might be too 'alien' for some people, but speaking in technological terms and going from what we've seen in these eight episodes (including the 'alta-Water', as his alternate version has been dubbed), could these *speculated* dimensions be created by mankind - perhaps future generations who existense in a future time-line has created somekind of ripple-down effect, causing the rate and speed of technology today to be more exponetitial than it should be. Allowing us to worlds and verses' that are there but should be there just yet.:confused0006:

But let me end by saying this, as in the concept of Alpha and Omega if you will, life, nature and reality moves in circles. We start with the 0th dimension and end with the 10th which in effect is the beginning again.

http://morenews.blogspot.com/2006/09/7th-dimension-is-infinity.html (http://morenews.blogspot.com/2006/09/7th-dimension-is-infinity.html)
- The 0th dimension is the dot. You don't need any numbers to identify its position.
- The first dimension is the line. You need one number to identify the distance of one dot to another dot.
- the second dimension is the plane. You need two numers to identify a point on a plane.
- space is the third dimension
- space time is the fourth dimension: it requires four numbers to place a dot in space-time. 3 for the spacial position, and one for the time.
- The 5th dimension is the first dimension in which the notion of possible worlds starts needing to be used. One requires 7dimensions to cover all the possible worlds that would have started from the same initial conditions as ours.
- The other dimensions cover the possible worlds that start with different initial conditions as ours.
- The tenth dimension where we stop because we have by then covered all imaginable possible worlds, so there is not further place we can conceiveably go.

Another good site:
http://www.tenthdimension.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=770

This is a good thread. I hope it continues. :party0011:
Very interesting! So is this 'loop' (if you will) pre-destined? If so, could the technology and science in Fringe be ahead of where it should be, have they found a way to 'jump' ahead of natures wand?

Interesting stuff! I love the theory, but I'm unsure as to how far the Fringe writers are going to take it...it seems like the "fringe" topics in each episode are at least grounded in regular science; interdimensional crossings might be a bit heady even for this show. Although...the theory holds promise with the John Scott dead/undead? mind only undead? scenario. I'm excited to see what other thoughts the fringe blog holds on this topic!
I agree, we're stepping into unknown territory with this thread. I'm under no illusions that this could be a bit 'much', even for Fringe. But the more I see the more prepared I am to see where this takes us. Of course the 'alter Walter' seen in 1.08, also gives me hope that this thread isn't too far out.:sofa:

theVOID

11-23-2008, 10:26 AM

Great theory as per usually D-Roc. :happy15:

Just one thing, why the 7th Dimension specifically? is there a theory you have read pertaining to a specific 7th dimension with a unique function? Or is it just a catchy name?

Just asking because i can see no relation to an actual previously hypothesized 7th dimension, i am assuming you are eluding to what is commonly known as the The dimension of consciousness

The Dimension of Consciousness is supposedly the dimension where all intelligence exists, the dimension where our mind exists, completely unattached to the body that resides within the 3 dimensions of space. This is the dimension that many religions refer to as something along the lines of "holy spirit" or the space where the "true self" or the "universal consciousness" resides.

A lot of thinking regarding this theory was spurred by the evidence that while the brain is capable of calculating, storing, interpreting and directing the flow of information, there is still no real evidence to show why we are capable of though, something that even the most powerful machines are not able to do. they can follow instructions, but the supercomputers will never just feel like painting a picture, writing a song, going on a date. Thought is the only thing that separates man from machine.

One of my own ideas that i am planning to use for a sci-fi novel is that the conscious dimension is where we really live, all intelligent beings (this would in my idea exclude animals, only true intelligent beings such as humans, or intelligent alien life or machines capable of processing true intelligence reside)

In this world we interact with the 3 dimensions of space through our physical being, our brain and body. Each part of the body, your eyes, mouth, tongue, taste, hearing, touch, limbs EVERYTHING is merely a peripheral just like a mouse on a computer, its sole job is to interact with the environment and send back to the brain electrical signals. This information is all processed by the brain, which is used solely to store and interpret data.

Once the information has been interpreted the brain it is in the form of electrons, different subatomic particles within the electron (such a quarks and leptons, or even down as far as string theory) correspond to different symbols (like 1s and 0s can be arranged to make bits), which freely pop in and out of existence (as they do in the real world, electrons and other sub atomic particles are constantly popping in and out of existence, when they are gone nobody knows where they go, the other particles pop back, and we don't know where from).

Particles go into the conscious dimension where we (our consciousness) processes it, once we have decided what to do with the information we send it back to the brain, which then instructs our bodies to act accordingly.

Without giving too much away, something is going wrong with the conscious dimension, it begins causing random fluctuations in spacetime , causing people near by to vanish, but not everyone... a very very limited number of people survive the encounters (i wonder why)

It will deal with Multiple worlds, time travel, the end of the world, "ghosts", androids, genetically modified people (maybe they are engineered to keep up with the machines?) conspiracy, psychics, fate and a fist fight between Jesus and The Buddha (just kidding) as well as putting forward my own theory on how multiple universes are connected, not just floating around in an 11 dimensional spacetime as theorized, but connected to a single membrane that is the conscious dimension, as if there is one dimension of consciousness for all of the infinite number of universes.

But it sounds to me that your supposed 7th dimension is the conscious dimension.

theVOID

11-23-2008, 10:36 AM

You know, I thought I'd replied to this! Thanks for the above contributions to this theory, I'll reply to them right after I've posted this as a reminder for an update:

http://www.fringe-forum.com/forums/images/img/108eq4.jpg

Worm-holes and gateways from another (7th?) dimension possibly confirmed in episode 1.08 - The Equation.

Actually!!!!! That model demonstrates a wormhole "shortcut" between space and time!

Look at that oval that is separated by the wormhole, the model is used to show how two spaceships flying around a ring (or just in a straight line if you can picture that) takes, say, 100 years to complete, after 30 years travel they come to the wormhole, one ship enters the wormhole while the other continues around the loop. After 70 years the two ships meet up just outside the other end of the wormhole, for the ship that went the long way it, their clock shows that it has been 70 years, but for the ship that went through the wormhole only seconds have passed, this is because of the time dilation inside the wormhole.

The two ships would dock and when the crews met, the pilots from wormhole ship would find that their friends aboard the other ship has died, but still sit down and have a beer with the children of their friends who they took off with.

So it's not actually time travel, but a shortcut through space and time.

And another point. You can not have a wormhole to another "dimension" because a dimension is simply a small realm of influence inside our own reality, it isn't a separate entity, we are already "in" that dimension, that is to say, we always exist inside that dimension as defined by the influence of that dimension on our reality, even if it is a dimension that is only noticeable at a quantum level.

So there would be no way of going to this other dimension exclusively because our physical body can only exist in the 3 dimensions of space, and all events occur in spacetime, it would be impossible to do anything inside this one dimension, even if you could exist there in "spirit", because this dimension is not time.

I think we have to take into account real theories and ideas from science and pseudoscience when looking at anything from the abramsverse, just because everything he comes up with is rooted in the real theoretical works of various scientists and the laws and rules of General relativity and major quantum mechanical laws, i don't think he would write anything outside of what is, because when writers start making up their own dimensional/quantum theories they usually end up being completely ridiculous and somewhat of a joke, and our friend JJ is too smart for that.

Fringeling

11-23-2008, 12:06 PM

Awesome concepts D-Roc and co. You should be careful --- there are some cultures that might be prone to worship you :party0011:

Some of these theories remind me of the Russian based Night Watch book/movies mythos. I don't want to spoil it (in case you haven't read the book or seen any of the movies), however they deal with 7 levels of reality. The different levels are collectively referred to sometimes as the Twilight, but most often as the Gloom. Only people known as Others may enter the Gloom, and most can only go so far into the different levels. SPOILER: each level has certain characteristics, the first few would mostly have characteristics we would consider "Dark" both spiritually and physically, the later of which are more occupied by color and "light" --- again both spiritually and physically. I belive it is the fourth level which is inhabited by all Others who die. The seventh level is actually the same as the level we all exist in, however only one person (I believe) is capable of entering all of the levels to circle back into our own via the seventh. The mythos overall is definitely more rooted in fantasy, but some of the parallels are interesting.

I really like D-Roc's thinking about converging dimensions/realities. That would even explain some of the spontaneity of unrelated "geniuses" being inspired to work on complex equations/theories at the same time explored in The Equation. Perhaps an alternatie converging reality is influencing the minds of our own, sparking people like Ben and Daschel's minds to work on things like The Equation.

Oooh, here's a thought! ------

An interesting observation considering alternate dimensions ------ when Walter was talking to Olivia about the residue of John she was experiencing, he told her that her mind was trying to purge itself of John because the two shouldn't exist together. Applying this to the concept that there is an alternate reality converging on our own might further explain the reason for Daschell's and Ben's obsession with The Equation. What if their minds are sensitive to the alternate dimension (for whatever reason, be it a brush with death or whatever). However, their minds cannot co-exist with this dimension anymore than Olivia's can with John's. In an attempt to "purge" itself of the alternate reality (or harmonize the two instead), the mind -- like a computer ---- begins to systematically find a way to do this. The result of it's attempts are the obsession with things such as The Equation by various individuals. The Equation, and perhaps most quantum mathematic breakthroughs in the Fringe universe, are the result of the COLLECTIVE concioussness' computational reasoning in solving the dillema and paradox of the two alternate dimensional realities converging together in the same space ! In other words, LIFE is trying to balance itself, like a mathmatical checkbook. The various "geniuses" who are sensitive to this paradox are contributing (conciouslly and unconciously) to this balancing. Perhaps everyone is without realizing it, however it is more pronounced in scholastic individuals due to their ability to function "higher".

I'm kind of rambling, and I don't know if I am describing what I'm thinking well :P

Perhaps some (not all) of the Pattern is the end result of these two converging realities. Cattle with human organs, people swapping "concioussness". Some of the Pattern definitely appears influenced by man-made scienctific achievments (i.e. The Ghost Network, the rapidly grown clone kids, the chick with the exploding head, etc.), but perhaps not all of it is man-made ------ at least not man-made in our dimension.

-----

My guess, however, is that if alternate dimensional realities are going to be confirmed in Fringe, it will not be until several seasons down the road. The concept would be essentially the root basis for the show in which almost it's entire mythos would derive. Confirming this idea early on would destroy a lot of the shows mystique. It would be simliar to the X-Files confirming the existence of extra-terrestrials in the first season ------- it would have destroyed the mystery of the storylines involving aliens for the show, and they would have had to stick to their other plots.

Just some random thoughts. I too should go to sleep now !!:faintthud:

Fringeling

11-23-2008, 12:40 PM

More random thoughts:

I too thought there was a signifficant link between the blue lights appearing in Olivia and John's "linkage" and their appearances elsewhere outside of synaptic transfers.

At first, I postulated they were the result of the electrical conduction of the synaptic transfers taking place between Olivia and John and in their own respective "minds", and what we were witnessing was their lightening flashes so to speak.

But now, considering the idea of alternate dimensions of conciousness/reality, I'm looking at the characteristics of what the blue lights are associated with:

When Olivia and John are "connected", apparently they can only enter each other's conciousness. If they could enter everyone elses conciousness, they would have access to everyone's knowledge and memories, not just being limited by their own. Therefore, the conciousness of individuals seem to exist in a certain "level" or wavelength. In other words, to be connected to John, Olivia's Alpha, Beta, gamma, and Theta waves needed to be the same as John's. Once they were, Olivia had access to John. It's not that they were "entering each other's minds", but they were communicating at a certain collective wavelength with other.

So, once this connection was "severed", why can Olivia still access John? Where is his residue residing? AFter all, our brain waves (meausred in Alpha, BEta, Gamma, and Theta) vary. They are not always the same frequencies. They are not a "fingerprint", never changing yet unique to us. The idea, I am assuming, is that her neural pathways "downloaded" amounts of John's memories by forming a synaptic grid (like our brains supposedly do for all memory and function) which she can still use to access John's memories. But where is John the "person"? Why does she still have to go through "John" just to get to his memories? If she dies, does the rest of John die with her?

Apparently, memory (even osmotic memory) can be interpreted by others. This is essentially what John Mosley appeared to be doing. He was interpreting the signals put out by Peter and the other guy (harmonically?) These signals and memories were apprently accessed by causing certain emotional responses in individuals (based off of the Rogue's questions).

So, combinbing all of this data -------- memory, conciousness, and emotion being tied to frequency, the Beacon vibrating at frequencies, the blue lights existing around all of them and the Observer having blue lights around him -------- can we postulate that the Observer is "vibrating" at a certain frequency as well? Or emmitting a certain frequency? He appears to have this ability, as he could "connect" to Peter and Walter's minds. He was even MIMICKING (sp) PETER'S EMOTIONS (a link to the Rogue using emotion to spark peoples memories he was interpreting). So unless he had "burned" their synaptic frequency grids into his mind at some point in the past (as I speculate in other threads as to why I think he is part of WIlliam Bell), he has the ability to link with others frequencies. And he has the blue lights around him. And he appears to be more than just an interactive hologram ---- after all he eats adn can be knocked down and caught off guard.

So these blue lights would appear to be further evidence there is some sort of dimensional plain of existence ------ accessed by tuning into frequencies, since everything resonating in certain frequencies appears to have these blue lights.

Wow, I was rambling !:ashamed0001:

theVOID

11-23-2008, 01:17 PM

Wondermind

11-23-2008, 02:48 PM

Some good thoughts, i'll try and respond in turn later on, but i'm tired from lost and fringe theories and doing some reading on M-theory
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-theory

The one thing that concerns me most about the lights is the fact that Nobody seems to notice them.

Perhaps the lights are there for the bennefit of the viewers. :confused0006:

Fringeling

11-23-2008, 04:13 PM

Perhaps the lights are there for the bennefit of the viewers. :confused0006:
I totally agree the lights are there for our benefit only, not to be noticed or seen by those on screen.

But this actually raises another question: are the writers simply editing in the lights as graphic clues, or are they also suggesting that only cameras can capture the light on film?

theVOID

11-23-2008, 11:05 PM

I totally agree the lights are there for our benefit only, not to be noticed or seen by those on screen.

But this actually raises another question: are the writers simply editing in the lights as graphic clues, or are they also suggesting that only cameras can capture the light on film?

I'm thinking that the lights are an allusion to the observer, just because they both turn up in the most unexpected places, and stay seemingly unnoticed, perhaps they are telling us that he has the capacity to observe from a distance the same way he reads peoples thoughts.

Idiot

11-24-2008, 09:34 PM

theVOID

11-25-2008, 12:14 AM

Disregarding your theism which is sophomoric, this is a interesting hypothesis which is diffucult to disprove, however the inferences leave something to be desired.
None the less I appreciate the curiosity.

Unfortunately with the way the mythology has been blasted into Fringe without really giving us any substantial information at all, all of the theories for this show so far are "clutching at straws"

I'm starting to dislike how all over the place fringe is at the moment in terms of the mythology, we are introduced to so so many mysteries at once that it all becomes incredibly confusing, especially considering how little information we actually have about each of the events in question.

D-Roc

11-25-2008, 02:43 PM

Thanks for the input guys, I'll be updating this thread soon. In the meantime, I like the idea that the blue lights could be an allusion to the Observer or to someone being observed. In many ways the blue lights also remind me of a camera flash - could these blue lights be representative of moments in time being 'recorded' or 'captured' (much like what tV mentions about the Observer possibly being able to observe from a distance)?

I still stick by the notion that the lights signify the opening and closing of dimensions, but I'm also keeping an open mind.

Re: why the characters don't appear to notice the lights, well, perhaps they're not for their benefit, but ours. Perhaps we, the viewers, are part of the experience..part of the Pattern :ninja:

Or..perhaps it has something to do with the lights only registering on a subconscious level. I mean how much attention do we pay to the strange phenomena around us? :confused0006:

I'll come back to this when I have more time to reply.

Fringeling

11-25-2008, 03:26 PM

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet either ---- Has anyone wondered why the lights are blue, and the main color/hue theme of Fringe media is blue? The glyphs are blue-hue, etc. The light inside the Beacon was blue as well was it not? Also, the lights (if I'm not mistaken) are always horizontal I believe. Lens flares typically involve a circular element, where the "ray-lines" eminate for a central source radiating outward. This is also true of the way light diffracts in our own eyes. The lights in Fringe are often blueish, horizontal, and also occur in pairs PARALLEL to each other. What could cause that I wonder? :confused:

Idiot

11-25-2008, 08:45 PM

Concerning the color choice, blue is one of the more pleasing and popular colors and theatrical cohesion only benifits the show. However I applaud your exploration of the light sources within the show. Your information is correct by the way.

theVOID

11-25-2008, 09:03 PM

Re: why the characters don't appear to notice the lights, well, perhaps they're not for their benefit, but ours. Perhaps we, the viewers, are part of the experience..part of the Pattern :ninja:.

D-Roc... I think you just hit the nail on the head.

It's the pattern gone Viral! Just like all of the images that have been released, this is another extension of the Viral campaign, like an advertising trick, subtle influence, like the green green green red.

It'd be really curious to see what someone in the field of Psychology or Marketing has to say about the potential impact of these unusual lights on screen only for the viewers, perhaps it is in it's self an experiment to get people hooked on the show, people spend more time wondering what's going on when there is something like the lights that none of the characters notice, meaning they invest more heavily in the show.

Any psychologists around???

Idiot

11-25-2008, 09:35 PM

A common phycological effect is to inbed something into an ordinary event
and then have it seem as if the viewer discovered it. The viewer then displays far more interest in such an object as opposed to an object without anything inbedded in it.

Matthew

11-25-2008, 09:42 PM

It's interesting, at least I thought so, that the ad for this episode mentioned Olivia going into a different dimension. Made me think of this thread.

D-Roc

11-27-2008, 09:34 AM

Great theory as per usually D-Roc. :happy15:

Just one thing, why the 7th Dimension specifically? is there a theory you have read pertaining to a specific 7th dimension with a unique function? Or is it just a catchy name?
It's basically the result of reading several ideas on dimensions and the notion that the 6th dimension consists of a dimension outside of observable space-time, and the idea that the next dimension on from that is one which ties the two realities together - the one we are physically existing in right here and now, and the one outside.

However, I'm not a scientist and I am more drawn to spirituality and faith than hardcore science, and so this theory is simply a presentation of ideas triggered by the first 9 episodes of the show, and with any luck (and possibly a bit of help from anyone who wants to chip in), I'll be able to build upon the groundwork that I've laid down.:happy15:

I agree that there will have to be some credible scientific fact /possibility involved, but I also believe that science and faith also have to possibility to converge and reach similar conclusions.:confused0006:Hopefully the Fringe writers wont keep it all hardcore science and will allow viewers to take a leap of faith with certain elements.:hope:

Just asking because i can see no relation to an actual previously hypothesized 7th dimension, i am assuming you are eluding to what is commonly known as the The dimension of consciousnessThe Dimension of Consciousness is supposedly the dimension where all intelligence exists, the dimension where our mind exists, completely unattached to the body that resides within the 3 dimensions of space. This is the dimension that many religions refer to as something along the lines of "holy spirit" or the space where the "true self" or the "universal consciousness" resides.

A lot of thinking regarding this theory was spurred by the evidence that while the brain is capable of calculating, storing, interpreting and directing the flow of information, there is still no real evidence to show why we are capable of though, something that even the most powerful machines are not able to do. they can follow instructions, but the supercomputers will never just feel like painting a picture, writing a song, going on a date. Thought is the only thing that separates man from machine.[/quote]

Yes, I believe that is a fair shout. However, I wont tie this theory down to any one concept, I might even change the theory title once I find my rhythm. Hopefully then I'll be able to provide a more accurate depiction of my thoughts on this topic.

One of my own ideas that i am planning to use for a sci-fi novel is that the conscious dimension is where we really live, all intelligent beings (this would in my idea exclude animals, only true intelligent beings such as humans, or intelligent alien life or machines capable of processing true intelligence reside)

In this world we interact with the 3 dimensions of space through our physical being, our brain and body. Each part of the body, your eyes, mouth, tongue, taste, hearing, touch, limbs EVERYTHING is merely a peripheral just like a mouse on a computer, its sole job is to interact with the environment and send back to the brain electrical signals. This information is all processed by the brain, which is used solely to store and interpret data.I agree, the way I describe it is that our external self acts as an 'interface' - a means of communicating and experiecing touch, sound, taste (etc) in this dimension.

Once the information has been interpreted the brain it is in the form of electrons, different subatomic particles within the electron (such a quarks and leptons, or even down as far as string theory) correspond to different symbols (like 1s and 0s can be arranged to make bits), which freely pop in and out of existence (as they do in the real world, electrons and other sub atomic particles are constantly popping in and out of existence, when they are gone nobody knows where they go, the other particles pop back, and we don't know where from).

Particles go into the conscious dimension where we (our consciousness) processes it, once we have decided what to do with the information we send it back to the brain, which then instructs our bodies to act accordingly.

Without giving too much away, something is going wrong with the conscious dimension, it begins causing random fluctuations in spacetime , causing people near by to vanish, but not everyone... a very very limited number of people survive the encounters (i wonder why)

It will deal with Multiple worlds, time travel, the end of the world, "ghosts", androids, genetically modified people (maybe they are engineered to keep up with the machines?) conspiracy, psychics, fate and a fist fight between Jesus and The Buddha (just kidding) as well as putting forward my own theory on how multiple universes are connected, not just floating around in an 11 dimensional spacetime as theorized, but connected to a single membrane that is the conscious dimension, as if there is one dimension of consciousness for all of the infinite number of universes.

But it sounds to me that your supposed 7th dimension is the conscious dimension.That sounds very interesting and appealing. It certainly has parallels with the theory I'm trying to put forward. I will refer back to this post when I have more time, there are a couple of things that I think will be useful as I update and expand upon the notion of the 7th dimension.:happy15:

Awesome concepts D-Roc and co. You should be careful --- there are some cultures that might be prone to worship you :party0011:

Some of these theories remind me of the Russian based Night Watch book/movies mythos. I don't want to spoil it (in case you haven't read the book or seen any of the movies), however they deal with 7 levels of reality. The different levels are collectively referred to sometimes as the Twilight, but most often as the Gloom. Only people known as Others may enter the Gloom, and most can only go so far into the different levels. SPOILER: each level has certain characteristics, the first few would mostly have characteristics we would consider "Dark" both spiritually and physically, the later of which are more occupied by color and "light" --- again both spiritually and physically. I belive it is the fourth level which is inhabited by all Others who die. The seventh level is actually the same as the level we all exist in, however only one person (I believe) is capable of entering all of the levels to circle back into our own via the seventh. The mythos overall is definitely more rooted in fantasy, but some of the parallels are interesting.

I really like D-Roc's thinking about converging dimensions/realities. That would even explain some of the spontaneity of unrelated "geniuses" being inspired to work on complex equations/theories at the same time explored in The Equation. Perhaps an alternatie converging reality is influencing the minds of our own, sparking people like Ben and Daschel's minds to work on things like The Equation.

Oooh, here's a thought! ------

An interesting observation considering alternate dimensions ------ when Walter was talking to Olivia about the residue of John she was experiencing, he told her that her mind was trying to purge itself of John because the two shouldn't exist together. Applying this to the concept that there is an alternate reality converging on our own might further explain the reason for Daschell's and Ben's obsession with The Equation. What if their minds are sensitive to the alternate dimension (for whatever reason, be it a brush with death or whatever). However, their minds cannot co-exist with this dimension anymore than Olivia's can with John's. In an attempt to "purge" itself of the alternate reality (or harmonize the two instead), the mind -- like a computer ---- begins to systematically find a way to do this. The result of it's attempts are the obsession with things such as The Equation by various individuals. The Equation, and perhaps most quantum mathematic breakthroughs in the Fringe universe, are the result of the COLLECTIVE concioussness' computational reasoning in solving the dillema and paradox of the two alternate dimensional realities converging together in the same space ! In other words, LIFE is trying to balance itself, like a mathmatical checkbook. The various "geniuses" who are sensitive to this paradox are contributing (conciouslly and unconciously) to this balancing. Perhaps everyone is without realizing it, however it is more pronounced in scholastic individuals due to their ability to function "higher".

I'm kind of rambling, and I don't know if I am describing what I'm thinking well :P

Perhaps some (not all) of the Pattern is the end result of these two converging realities. Cattle with human organs, people swapping "concioussness". Some of the Pattern definitely appears influenced by man-made scienctific achievments (i.e. The Ghost Network, the rapidly grown clone kids, the chick with the exploding head, etc.), but perhaps not all of it is man-made ------ at least not man-made in our dimension.

Some interesting thoughts there.:happy15: I hope to come back to the bulk of it when I have more time, but I agree that nature is also playing an active role in this..it might not be evident now, but I think further down the line, we'll see that nature (as we know it) is either preparing us for something, or we are preparing for natures "purge". Such a purge might also relate to reality and the way in which we perceive it. The peoples or corporations best placed to lead us through to that next 'level' obviously have a vested interest in ensure that they remain well positioned.

My guess, however, is that if alternate dimensional realities are going to be confirmed in Fringe, it will not be until several seasons down the road. The concept would be essentially the root basis for the show in which almost it's entire mythos would derive. Confirming this idea early on would destroy a lot of the shows mystique. It would be simliar to the X-Files confirming the existence of extra-terrestrials in the first season ------- it would have destroyed the mystery of the storylines involving aliens for the show, and they would have had to stick to their other plots.
Totally agree, if dimensional realities are going to play a part in the show, I suspect that we'll only see little signs of it until the later stages - it's like "LOST" with time-travel.

Fekona

11-27-2008, 11:22 AM

haha ok I didn't realize last night this was on this massive forum I was sleepy and could not bring myself to filter out all the posts but I did mention this on another post last night which I believe goes along with what you were saying

While I was browsing MD website I noticed this link http://www.seedmagazine.com/news/200...l_universe.php (http://www.seedmagazine.com/news/2008/10/the_statistical_universe.php)

Which talks about string theory which explains the way our universe works as a "parallel universe" Some people believe that it can explain "God" or "Creation" Nova on PBS did a very good show on it http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html you can (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html)
You can watch the whole episodes in segments.

Also my guess is that we should be seeing references to the number 8 when looked at sideways it is infinity also goes along with string theory the crossing between two universes.

youtube string theory there is allot of interesting uploads on thereAlso I forgot to mention that Astral Projection is thought to believe if done correctly you can go to one of these dimensions

theVOID

11-28-2008, 10:47 AM

haha ok I didn't realize last night this was on this massive forum I was sleepy and could not bring myself to filter out all the posts but I did mention this on another post last night which I believe goes along with what you were saying

Also I forgot to mention that Astral Projection is thought to believe if done correctly you can go to one of these dimensions

Thanks for the link, i'll definitely watch it once i'm on a faster connection.

Astral projection is like Nature's LSD, and most of the people who take it seriously are just as wacky as the most hardcore acid head. I don't buy it at all, it just doesn't happen, although i'll give the believers credit, they've done an amazing job at fooling themselves! :happy15:

Fekona

11-28-2008, 11:45 AM

Thanks for the link, i'll definitely watch it once i'm on a faster connection.

Astral projection is like Nature's LSD, and most of the people who take it seriously are just as wacky as the most hardcore acid head. I don't buy it at all, it just doesn't happen, although i'll give the believers credit, they've done an amazing job at fooling themselves! :happy15:
I dunno I am still open to the possibility it could happen anything could happen:confused0006:

Idiot

12-02-2008, 01:43 AM

To have an acerebral abderite attempt to become a blaberskite is purile. I admire your grasp of science pedagauges however "faith" is an unneeded construct.

BrassOrchid

02-10-2009, 10:52 PM

D-Roc

02-11-2009, 06:45 AM

Tonight's episode introduced us to the ZFT manuscript. I think this manuscript has several very huge clues to exactly what the Pattern really is. :observer: And of course, the second thing I thought of was this thread - parallel realities, one intruding on the other. For the first, read on...

Now, given that I have an awful memory for details until I have seen an episode several times, I think I remember a part that said something along the lines of intrusions into our reality by denizens of the other would cause certain effects, unnoticeable at first but progressively increasing until they reach catastrophic proportions.

(Side note - how long till we can get a hold of a transcript?)

Anyway....first thought that jumped into my mind was the Pattern!

When did the events begin? What happened around that same time? Is it possible that one (or more) of Walter's experiments created the conditions required for this intrusion? Or were they perhaps the result? Could this have been connected to the fire in Walter's lab? Could the blue lights be visual signals for overlapping realities/the two realities clashing? Only one will survive....

So many thoughts!
Yikes, I guess I'm on the right lines with this theory. Not totally accurate but very close.:confused0066:

Anyway, thanks for raising this point BrassOrchid -- I think these intrusions could be 'the pattern', as you say. However, I'm now beginning to wonder whether the pattern is more mankinds defense system. A method of preparedness against an impending take-over. Or, perhaps the pattern is entangled with both these instrusions and demonstrations/tests by the likes of ZFT and others on both sides of this 'war'. Which could make the pattern a 'hybrid'.

With this in mind, the pattern is likely to be an integral consequence of these instrusions.

However, I think that my thread about unknown origin (http://fringe-forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=956&highlight=origin) can, perhaps, offer some more insight. Like you say, the indicators of these 'instrusions' are probably the blue lights, as I mentioned above and in my "Observer Theory" thread. Elsewhere I've speculated that they are indicators of observation from another dimension (or universe, or multiverse). The blue lights as we have speculated in dozens of threads, have gotten progressively more overt - I mentioned this in a recent blog post.

The 'intrusions' could also be in the form of Observers - "Observers Are Here". Entities from our time (or another time) who have crossed over from another dimension to observe an experiment (AKA us) and henseforth change our reality - Olivia's lightbulb test is a nice metaphor for this:confused0006:I speculate that 'our' Observer (the one known to us) will end up fighting on the side of our heroes. But that's jumping way too far ahead!

Also, I think that this video helps describe some of the things laid out in this theory - particularly regarding these 'intrustions' from other dimensions - or Universes, if you will:

(skip to the 3 minute mark)

YouTube - what the bleeb II (Down the rabbit hole) tr-15- (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5CMOZSXIzA)

I also want to highlight this passage from my original post, for my own reference more than anything:

I believe that Fringe will explore the dimentional convergance or, the 7th dimension - the line between two realities. Where realities meld together to allow different objects, events and patterns to occupy the same 'space' within different time frequencies.
So to my mind convergence = intrusion. I guess 'intrusion' has more aggressive conotations but my thinking was on the right lines. What I need to do now is give this a massive update with screencaps and recent information.

Woo!:)

jcline12

02-12-2009, 10:09 PM

phenol

02-15-2009, 03:19 PM

Wow, I'm glad to see string theory being mentioned! I don't have much to add but:

It's notable that Abrams includes SO MANY REFERENCES to real scientists in the series. IDK if anyone has pointed out the real real penrose yet, Roger Penrose:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_censorship_hypothesis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penrose_triangle

The first link talks about singularities and their nature, and whether naked singularities (singularities in the absence of a superdense black hole from which the escape velocity is greater than c (the velocity of an unbound photon (EM radiation) which is truly a constant... matter only SEEMS to slow light down as I discussed in another thread somewhere)) ... whether naked singularities are possible.

Perhaps these references are intended to point us towards relevant theories in physics and mathematics.

The "equation" thing SCREAMS QUANTUM TUNNELING out to me. I explained it in another thread but in a nutshell, it's the allowance for a particle to pass a barrier without having sufficient energy to do so due to wave-particle duality and the wavefunction's prediction of a chance of passing through it. The equation must ALIGN the wavefunction of the constituent fermions of larger masses to allow for tunneling.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_tunneling

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/50/EffetTunnel.gif -- quantum tunneling. wavefunction predicts the possibility of passage through the forbidden energy barrier.

Also, if string theory or M-theory's 10 or 11 dimensions (respectively) exist, it could explain why gravity is such a weak force. For example: a weak little magnet can hold a nick nack on your fridge, resisting the gravitational force of the massive earth -- the electroweak interaction is CLEARLY MUCH MUCH stronger, and the strong interaction is even stronger yet! If the electroweak and strong interactions have guage bosons that are open strings they would be bound to our "membrane" (the observable universe); perhaps gravity is a CLOSED string, allowing gravitons to "leak" into the dimensions we cannot perceive, which would explain why gravity seems so weak on our end, and why we have yet to observe a graviton (a theoretical guage boson with a spin of 2, no electrical charge, and no mass). It must be massless (uneffected by Higgs boson fields) if it exists because gravitation has infinite range, just like the electromagnetic portion of the electroweak interaction, mediated by the massless photon.

Edit: String theories also require supersymmetry, which is in a nutshell the speculation that all fermions (the constituents of matter) have a corresponding boson (the constituents of radiation and the carriers of force). This has also not yet been observed, but would require massive revision of the standard model if shown to be true.

Edit2: Idiot, try to calm down, alright. D-roc is entitled to believe in a religious creation story just like you're entitled NOT to believe in one. I personally agree with you: I think belief in a creator or intelligent designer is a massive leap of faith that violates occam's razor by making an unnecessary assumption where one is not needed, and that since it's unfalsifiable, that it's silly to consider it in the first place. HOWEVER, your comments are totally uncalled for. While I'm an athiest and fully support deep time, the big bang theory, an ancient earth, macroevolution, the works... I also beleive in respecting differences between people and freedom of expression. In other words... allow people to believe what they wish so long as it is not harmful to other's civil / human / legal / etc rights. D-roc's beliefs aren't hostile to any of those. D-roc even made those personal beliefs compatible with the framework of the theory by allowing those beliefs to peacefully co-exist with scientific observations, which is commendable.

D-Roc

02-16-2009, 04:15 PM

I truely belive when you dream or let your mind be free you open up doors to other diminsions , my girl friend repeatley has dreams of her dad that has passed away 6 years ago. With us in present time,i have visions of not having pain and working at a past job in the present. Your brain only knows what plane you are in when you are awake or asleep . It's hard to explane but i definatlety belive
Very interesting jcline. I'm open to that for sure.

I believe..or rather, I think it 'possible' that we exist on all planes of time and reality - our brains just don't know it..although sometimes they do, but perhaps we're not open enough to the possibilities.

This conflicts somewhat with my faith in a creator, and the notion of freewill. However, I believe that I am able to reconcile this with the view that reality doesn't consciously exist until it has been measured - until it has been experienced across all planes.

If there is change then it must surely come from an unseen location.

Wow, I'm glad to see string theory being mentioned! I don't have much to add but:

It's notable that Abrams includes SO MANY REFERENCES to real scientists in the series. IDK if anyone has pointed out the real real penrose yet, Roger Penrose:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_censorship_hypothesis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penrose_triangle

The first link talks about singularities and their nature, and whether naked singularities (singularities in the absence of a superdense black hole from which the escape velocity is greater than c (the velocity of an unbound photon (EM radiation) which is truly a constant... matter only SEEMS to slow light down as I discussed in another thread somewhere)) ... whether naked singularities are possible.

Perhaps these references are intended to point us towards relevant theories in physics and mathematics.

The "equation" thing SCREAMS QUANTUM TUNNELING out to me. I explained it in another thread but in a nutshell, it's the allowance for a particle to pass a barrier without having sufficient energy to do so due to wave-particle duality and the wavefunction's prediction of a chance of passing through it. The equation must ALIGN the wavefunction of the constituent fermions of larger masses to allow for tunneling.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_tunneling

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/50/EffetTunnel.gif -- quantum tunneling. wavefunction predicts the possibility of passage through the forbidden energy barrier.

Also, if string theory or M-theory's 10 or 11 dimensions (respectively) exist, it could explain why gravity is such a weak force. For example: a weak little magnet can hold a nick nack on your fridge, resisting the gravitational force of the massive earth -- the electroweak interaction is CLEARLY MUCH MUCH stronger, and the strong interaction is even stronger yet! If the electroweak and strong interactions have guage bosons that are open strings they would be bound to our "membrane" (the observable universe); perhaps gravity is a CLOSED string, allowing gravitons to "leak" into the dimensions we cannot perceive, which would explain why gravity seems so weak on our end, and why we have yet to observe a graviton (a theoretical guage boson with a spin of 2, no electrical charge, and no mass). It must be massless (uneffected by Higgs boson fields) if it exists because gravitation has infinite range, just like the electromagnetic portion of the electroweak interaction, mediated by the massless photon.

Edit: String theories also require supersymmetry, which is in a nutshell the speculation that all fermions (the constituents of matter) have a corresponding boson (the constituents of radiation and the carriers of force). This has also not yet been observed, but would require massive revision of the standard model if shown to be true.

Edit2: Idiot, try to calm down, alright. D-roc is entitled to believe in a religious creation story just like you're entitled NOT to believe in one. I personally agree with you: I think belief in a creator or intelligent designer is a massive leap of faith that violates occam's razor by making an unnecessary assumption where one is not needed, and that since it's unfalsifiable, that it's silly to consider it in the first place. HOWEVER, your comments are totally uncalled for. While I'm an athiest and fully support deep time, the big bang theory, an ancient earth, macroevolution, the works... I also beleive in respecting differences between people and freedom of expression. In other words... allow people to believe what they wish so long as it is not harmful to other's civil / human / legal / etc rights. D-roc's beliefs aren't hostile to any of those. D-roc even made those personal beliefs compatible with the framework of the theory by allowing those beliefs to peacefully co-exist with scientific observations, which is commendable.
Very interesting phenol - this reminds me somewhat of Dark Matter, that which cannot be seen (observed), but which much surely be there due to it's visible effects on observable matter.

D-Roc

04-26-2009, 08:03 PM

The existense of other realities in the show has all but been proved now, but I'm going to update this thread as the show continues as I think the multiverse/multiple realities/dimensional angle is only the tip of the iceburg. There so much more of this to explore and piece together!

One thing I'd like to mention at this point, is that most immediately, we do indeed seem to be dealing with a paralell world - the "opponents" of 'our' world. I suspect that this will open up to other worlds as the show goes along. So I'll attempt to pin-down the correct terminolgy for what I think we're dealing with, though of course they are all interrelated.

Regarding "Bad Dreams" -- I do like how the creators threw out lots of references to "Aliens" and "Dopplegangers" on Lane's wall -- not so much misdirection, as telling us once and for all what the show is not. 'Aliens' are in actual fact, us..how closely we are related to these 'denizen's is a matter of perspective..and perhaps a matter of inter-dimensional relations.

I hope to update this soon, time permitting!

maestrojon

04-28-2009, 06:46 PM

I think Phenol is right, and that string/brane theory is the key to all of this. The elegant universe, hosted by Brian Greene is ESSENTIAL viewing!

Others may have posted this already (if so sorry) but here is a shorter talk by Greene from TED 2005 that gives a very clear introduction (helped by pretty pictures) to the theory and the ideas behind 11 dimensions. Note also that Abrams is also a TEDster (http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/j_j_abrams_mystery_box.html ) (http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/j_j_abrams_mystery_box.html)

Physicist Brian Greene explains superstring theory, the idea that minscule strands of energy vibrating in 11 dimensions create every particle and force in the universe.http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/brian_greene_on_string_theory.html

Hope this helps...:tiphat:

D-Roc

05-07-2009, 04:11 AM

Some thoughts/speculation from 1.19, drawing from my previous theories. Originally posted here (http://www.fringebloggers.com/the-one-less-travelled-by-some-thoughts-on-119/).

http://www.fringebloggers.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/road_choice.jpg (http://www.fringebloggers.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/road_choice.jpg)

The Road Not Taken. Wait. Haven’t we been here before? This episode certainly added weight to a few of the theories I’ve been kicking around. I thought I did a pretty good job with my M&M-themed approach (http://www.fringebloggers.com/the-multiverse-is-like-a-bag-of-mms/), but nothing beats the old mad scientist and chalk board to illustrate the message! Walter, I am so not worthy. If Astrid ever flies the nest, you know where I am.

But it is another theory that was also given more supporting evidence in this latest episode — my “Observer Quantum Theory” (part 1 (http://www.fringebloggers.com/the-observer-theory-changing-the-pattern-pt-1/), part 2 (http://www.fringebloggers.com/the-observer-theory-dimensional-pt-2/)). Just for context, in that theory I speculated that the act of observing changes reality:

In other words, every outcome is possible, until conscious observation creates it into perceived reality.

Imagine, if you will, a demonstration..an experiment (just like those seen on “Fringe”), with infinite possible outcomes. Only when (and ‘where’) it is observed does one outcome come into being. In this respect, success and failure is quite literally a matter of ‘perspective’. A highly skilled and conscious ‘observer’ could, in effect, control any experiment.I went on to speculate further:

So, I believe that the Observer is not necessarily from another time (although do believe that to be possible), but moreover, he is from another dimension..or universe. I am not talking about aliens here, I am talking about a world (possibly multiple) that exist within our own world. Invisible dimensions which are just out of our conscious perspective - dimensions which may be tiny (as the above video illustrates), but in actual fact are just as large as our own.

If the Observer is from one of these dimensions, then it would make him neither time-traveller or alien..but rather a human who is from a different ‘pocket’ of observed reality. A world that is linked to ours by the unconscious, a world that has taken different paths than ours due to subtle and large changes in their reality. Their technology is more advanced than ours because they have observed different realities which have influenced these changes - which brings us back to one of the underlying principles of this theory, “Observation Changes Reality”.

Olivia, for example, may very well exist in one of these other ‘dimensions’..so might Broyles and Peter and Walter, Oh! Especially Walter! All possibilities are possible
http://www.fringebloggers.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/road-scar.jpg (http://www.fringebloggers.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/road-scar.jpg)

Episode 1.19 gave us just that - a glimpse into one of these other realities..another possible course of events where counterparts reside. However, just like on “Lost” the ‘constants’ are themselves tallied with ‘variables’. Those variables are the counterparts that I spoke of - the alter-Broyles, who has a different office arrangement, and the alter-Charlie, who has a scar on his face — for example. These ‘alters’..or variables, have freewill..choice..and it is this individual and collective decision-making that allows for the differences between worlds. being the momentary glimpse, if you will, into one of these other realities.

Deja Vu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khFEdsBEVU0)

That said, I don’t believe this is the definitive ‘parallel world’ that we will be seeing in the show. To my mind this was an example of multiple realities created by our own choices. As Walter basically says (and this is something that I do believe myself) — time is not linear..time is merely a construct, a way for us to measure our place in the Universe. “The Road Not Taken” showed us what life might look like if our choices were different. And, because every action presents numerous opportunities, I think it’s right for me to say that time is happening all at once. Of course, this ties back into my Observer Theory — once observed reality changes..it becomes real. In the same way that when Olivia poked her head through to other side (thanks Cortexiphan activation!), it became real to her because she had witnessed it, even though this other path was always there..as are multiple ‘untaken roads’. I thought this episode did a wonderful job of illustrating this concept, which is funny, because to my mind, very similar concepts are currently being explored on my other favourite show.

However, as well as each choice creating a new reality — a giant ball of unseen possibility, if you will, the show will also deal with literal alternate worlds as well. In my opinion, ‘the road not taken’ approach is not limited to our individual choices, but the concept also be expanded backwards to creation itself. The beginning of the Universe(s), be that by God’s benevolent hand, or by a chance reaction. Either way, it’s likely that the show will feature both freewill and fate, with one set of alternate realities being governed by human choice (as touched on in episode 1.19)..and another set by what was written for the Universe - i.e., the conditions the Universe was created under.
The chances of our Universe being so perfect for life to thrive makes it likely that there are other Universes that also made it past conception. It’s become a fairly common idea now but I maintain that the Observer is from one of these parallel worlds (although I’m weary that the creators could yet be leading us down a wrong path).

Indeed, here’s what I said in my original theory on multiple realities:

Speaking of Little Hill. Could it be that there are multiple Little Hill’s? One in each ‘dimension’? So when Jones’ gets the answer from Olivia and later teleports to ‘Little Hill’, perhaps that’s not the only Little Hill that he is teleporting to - especially if we consider that the blue lights (present during his teleportation) represent dimensional travel and observation? Perhaps the Little Hill in the Observer’s (speculated) dimension holds more clues and importance than the Little Hill that we were privy to?

My suggestion is that these different dimensions all started off the same - call it multiple “Big Bangs” or multiple possibilities crafted by God (whatever your preference). Which means that things, people, possibilities in our world, could also exist in these other dimensions, except they would be different. Some things would never have happened, somethings would have happened but undergone relative change.

Here we can see that the road not taken philosophy still stands, but in an expanded sense. The path of one Universe (reality) will differ from that of its sibling or parent Universe because every possibility is possible somewhere..out there. Whilst both ‘the road not taken’ and the ‘roads predetermined’ perspectives can help to explain much in the show, I believe that it is this expanded look at alternate realities that will ultimately underpin the first two seasons at least.

And what of the title of this episode? It was most likely taken from the Robert Frost (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Frost) Poem:

YouTube - Robert Frost - The Road Not Taken - poem (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goc3f77bcXk)

A wonderful poem that no doubt provides encouragement for taking the path ‘less travelled by’. But after pondering for a few, I kinda think that Frost was speaking about regrets..regret in not taking whichever path you decide not to take. Which, is quite ironic, because it would appear that in the poem Frost takes both paths. Just my interpretation, mind.

http://www.fringebloggers.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/road_observer.jpg (http://www.fringebloggers.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/road_observer.jpg)

Back to the episode - for me, the most intriguing aspect was the Observer’s arrival at Walter’s lab. Not only was it interesting because it seems that this was a pre-St. Claire’s agreement that they had, but because taking everything into account, I wonder..what would life in this reality have been like had the Observer not saved the Bishop boys on that fateful night? Indeed, for so long we’ve been speaking about fate when it comes to the Observer; we know his schedule like clock-work - if there’s a Pattern-event or a Paula Abdul appearance (http://www.fringebloggers.com/the-observer-behind-the-scenes-photos-with-paula-abdul/), he’ll be there. And yet we’ve had to temper this with the knowledge that he seemingly ‘chose’ to save Walter and Peter from the lake of death back in the early 80’s.

But then in this context, what is freewill and fate - if the outcome isn’t pleasing, you can just tap in to the giant reservoir of possibility and experience another path! After all, Walter, how far would you go for someone that you love (http://www.fringebloggers.com/peter-theory-child-of-two-worlds/)?

Further to that, I recently speculated (http://www.fringebloggers.com/crackpot-theory-olive-killed-the-lab-assistant/) that Walter’s 17 year incarceration may have been predetermined..engineered by an outside agent or by Walter himself. After this episode I am even more certain of this. The Observer coming to collect Walter was surely at Walter’s own instruction, an arrangement made before he was sectioned in the mental hospital. We see memories of the bigger picture suddenly activating in Walter’s mind; “something terrible is coming” - not that he’s referring to the Observer, but clearly the Observer is a part of whatever is going to happen - “what was written..” and all that jazz. In this sense, the Observer is a catalyst for a chain of pre-orchestrated events..and not just an observer..or a Where’s Waldo.

Aside #1: I should just say, it does appear that I was wrong about Robert Bishop being the ZFT author. (you can’t win em’ all!). I can accept that, it was an audacious speculation on my part. That said I do think that Robert will play a fairly significant role in the mythos of the show. Who knows how far the robert-hole goes?

Aside #2: I should also add that whilst I believe that characters in the show are the variables across realities, in some respects they are also constants, by the very fact that they exist in other places. How interconnected people are with their counterparts is debatable, and it’s something I explored a few weeks back (http://www.fringebloggers.com/i-feel-therefore-i-am-bad-dreams/).

Fringeling

05-08-2009, 12:31 AM

D-Roc

05-08-2009, 06:34 AM

It's so funny ... you're now letting go of the theory that Robert Bishop was the author of the ZFT, and I'm more or less on board with the idea now --- despite Walter's claims and the probable evidence everywhere pointing to Bell! :o That's one element to a true mystery: when several people can look at the same evidence and draw different conclusions. :D

Even if Bell admits to it in the next epi --- depending on everything else he has to say --- I may or may not believe he wrote the thing. The last comic book was a "game changer" for me personally ... it makes me wonder just how many ZFT's there actually are, and why the German version seems to be the most popular:confused0006:. But there are any one of a dozen theories that could explain that I suppose ........ I'm counting on the next epi!

I do like the idea that Olivia didn't actually visit THE alternate reality that will be the biggest player (out of them all), rather she just meandered down one small possibility when she was "tripping":ashamed0001:

And speaking of Robert Frost's poem, most people quote the ending, which is "Two roads diverged in a wood and I, I took the one less traveled by ..."

and they forget the beginning actually describes the color of the woods:

"Two roads diverged in a *YELLOW* wood ..." :ninja:
Well, I'm not prepared to completely let go of the Robert Bishop theory just yet. I'll go down with this ship! :tiphat: I just have to hold my hands up and say that the writers may well have outfoxed me on that particular line of thought. I just thought they'd make the author of the ZFT manuscript more complicated than just being Belly..

but...

..as you say, perhaps there is more to it (I sure hope so). I haven't read the comics properly yet, I just glimpsed over them. I hope to read them at some point today, because, if the door to Robert ZFT involvement is still ajar, then that's a road I have to take.;)

On your notion that there are more than one ZFT. I agree, although you might be thinking of this from a different angle. Basically we have the multiple reality approach, where there are surely other ZFT's (just as there are other Charlies, Broyles, Olivia's, etc) in these other realities. But more than that, there's also a strong possibility, I would think, that ZFT (at least in this reality) is divided. Are William Bell and David Jones on the same page? I'm not so sure. The next episode could blow these speculative thoughts out of the water. Or, if the writers are really making my kind of show, they'd have David Jones as some kind of ZFT rebel.

That said, both he and Belly spent a lot of time in Germany recently. Who knows where this could go.

As for Liv and the alternate reality in 1.19. It's an interesting one because as I mentioned on FB a few weeks ago, the writers are expanding on themes that they have already laid the foundations for. What Olivia experienced in 1.19 was a form of viewing parallel worlds..or alternate paths of her own reality. However, was she actually travelling to this other world? I'd say no..(although it is very fine lines we're dealing with here). To my mind she was 'viewing' this world. An ability which was perhaps triggered by the not so dorment Cortexhifunk inside of her, and maybe connected to her emotions, and the emotions of the other her who took the path less travelled by. "Bad Dreams" lay down the ground work for just how important emotions and perception is in this first season..I believe that this might be the key to unlocking (or controlling) Olivia's power.

So I would agree with you that Liv didn't necessarily travel to another reality (like I suspect Bell and possibly Jones have been doing recently)..but rather, she was somehow able to tune into the frequency of possibility, and hence 'see' the other road taken.

Nice catch with the "yellow" wood..I was going to post it in my "Yellow Brick Road" thread, but I thought that might be digging a bit too far for clues. That said, there are some strange coincidences happening around that thread..connections that no-one could possibly foresee. This show is actually freaking me out a little:ninja:

D-Roc

11-19-2009, 10:12 AM

I'm beginnig to wish I called this thread the "8th dimention", what with all the 8 appearances.:observer:

gillybee

11-20-2009, 01:01 PM

I'm beginnig to wish I called this thread the "8th dimention", what with all the 8 appearances.:observer:

As Administrator you can always change it:haha:

TheOtherMe

12-03-2009, 01:13 PM

I'm beginnig to wish I called this thread the "8th dimention", what with all the 8 appearances.:observer:

I just wanted to say I love everything that has been writen on this thread!:happy15:

Basicly the writers can use specialy relativity or "relitve simultaneity" to say there are no paradoxes and pretty much say that nothing in the universe is really VERY differant than anything else, it's matter of 'matter entanglement' and limitations to differant causes and effects of differant spaces in conjunction to measuring the differences (so we do have other beings and time travel involved, even though universaly one can argue that we don't) -Which this goes along with the thoughts of theologin Suarez.

and about the Number 8...I almost had my user name be "Dharma-Dynamics":P

LateSeptember

11-24-2012, 03:04 AM

Note to reading this: This is a summary so no need to prepare concentration mode for too long but this will require a lot of mind strech and potentially be like this,

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_llunmqVKaf1qib9ks.gif (Troy Barnes)

ok, i really really want to update this thread because I believe this is the most awesome theory thread of speculation where it is 80% accurate, very early on in the show!! with the theory and has references to Mosely which is a hot debated matters as of this post ;) so CONGRATS D-ROC!!!! :D and now that we now know that the current universe fringe team is in the blue universe as explained by the blue flashes and everything. Whilst the alternate universe is presented with red flashes indicating a different set of reality frequencies

as of this post we are in season 5 of Fringe and these theories about alternative world discovery has passed and Observer's invasion has arrived and are well deep impacting the Fringe Team... I came here to sort clear of the sciences behind the 7th dimension theory that presented in all the fringes event and stories and how they are "NOT" the product of 7th Dimension (in a short concised response) but rather as a result of everything that goes into meddling on the below perceived dimensions (6th and under), but first lets look at the most excellent (as of 2012) explanation of the first 10 dimension video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjsgoXvnStY

In summary:
dimension 0 = a dot
dimension 1 = a line (an origin)
dimension 2 = width and length (a split)
dimension 3 = width length and height (a fold)
dimension 4 = a linear string of time/timeline (an origin)
dimension 5 = a branch of time string (a split, jumping across different realities)
dimension 6 = branches of group of time strings (a fold, jumping across all possible realities and times)
dimension 7 = infinity of a certain group of certain conditions existed possible (an origin)
dimension 8 = a branch of different kind of infinities (a split, jumping across set of infinities)
dimension 9 = branches of group of infinities (a fold, going across all possible infinities and its infinite timelines)
dimension 10 = all possible infinities of every physical and time existence of every different set of laws and ideas of realities (an origin point)

this is where we currently hit a road block with our comprehension beyond 10 dimension, and if you notice this concurs quite well with strong theory, no heavy maths explanation required :D

Examples in Fringe in regards to dimensional matters:

- Theory of time travelling = thats a fold of one string of timeline, meaning that 4th dimension being (possibly could be the perceived ghosts or spirits), preceived time occuring at however point of existence they can see but restricted within one medium. Similarly with Time travelling how bending through the wormholes of time like folding a piece of string, pretend you were an ant, walking in a thick string. As you walk in the huge string, they fold them and before you know it, you ended up in the point you started or in the future point. That's an analogy of time travelling ;)

- Theory of jumping universes (alternate universe and realities) = 5th dimension travelling, example: Walter created an inter-universe doorway device that resulted in the breakdown law physics in the alternate universe. Likewise, the observer's technology to observe and travel across both universes exemplified a 5th dimensional travel, but defied in the idea of time travelling to a different point of time across all the universes existing as when they go to the other reality, they only perceived in the same timeline in the other universe too

- Theory of jumping timeline (Peter's existence of being wiped out temporarily) = 6th dimension travelling. As his remains or bleeds in the rewrittend timeline existence, and as he suddenly returned to the rewrittend timeline, he manage to travel across different set of timelines for both universes in which he doesn't exist, Olivia's memory also have achieved this (still needs to be explained clearly as to how it happens as well) or when the Invasion from 27th century to 2015 occured in the current rewrittened timeline

What dimension do the observer's exist? = same as us, a 3 dimensional reality, however their perception of time and space have differed significantly due to their technological cortial implant to allow them being a 6th dimensional perceiver. As September quoted "we come from the many possible future of your humanity"... in doing so I can conclude they are as I said, a 3 dimensional being perceiving 6th dimensional technology as the observer's able to be uneffected by timeline change and can simultaneously access any time and point in any given universes

In regards to D-Roc's comment on 7th Dimension as being perceived as consciousness realm...

The idea of consciousness that it is like part of a "non physical" aspect of a person, individual and religions and other more traditional term for that is, a person's "Soul", according to wikipedia's definition of "Consciousness" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consciousness

Consciousness is the quality or state of being aware of an external object or something within oneself.[1] (http://fringe-forum.com/forums/#cite_note-1)[2] (http://fringe-forum.com/forums/#cite_note-van_Gulick2004-2) It has been defined as: subjectivity (http://fringe-forum.com/wiki/Subjectivity), awareness (http://fringe-forum.com/wiki/Awareness), sentience (http://fringe-forum.com/wiki/Sentience), the ability to experience (http://fringe-forum.com/wiki/Experience) or to feel (http://fringe-forum.com/wiki/Feeling), wakefulness, having a sense of selfhood (http://fringe-forum.com/wiki/Self), and the executive control system of the mind.[3] (http://fringe-forum.com/forums/#cite_note-Farthing1992Psychology-3) Despite the difficulty in definition, many philosophers believe that there is a broadly shared underlying intuition about what consciousness is.[4] (http://fringe-forum.com/forums/#cite_note-4) As Max Velmans (http://fringe-forum.com/wiki/Max_Velmans) and Susan Schneider wrote in The Blackwell Companion to Consciousness: "Anything that we are aware of at a given moment forms part of our consciousness, making conscious experience at once the most familiar and most mysterious aspect of our lives."[5] (http://fringe-forum.com/forums/#cite_note-5)

also just to cross reference definition, here's the answer to other links:
- http://www.thefreedictionary.com/consciousness
- http://psychology.about.com/b/2010/01/11/consciousness-psychology-definition-of-the-week.htm
- http://www.consciousentities.com/definitions.htm

based on these ideas, this could logically meant that, one's consciousness really depends on the level of sophistication of how an individual preceived their sense of reality, for example, their awareness of greater sense of living and what the brains project in their imagination as a result of that sophistication...So in short, our brain could only consciously replicate what we already know (subconscious are totally a different matter), but this could also lead to the idea of past life experiences or out of body experiences outside of our conscious zone, but that's not relevant to the discussion so I'll leave that for other place. In regards to people's level of awareness. This could mean that people's perception could very well be at any level of projected state of dimension they can be. This is a common misunderstanding in what people perceived as a dimensional consciousness,

But here lies the logic in regards to the 7 dimensions of realities perception:

- Animals and Plants often regarded as having 1 dimensional perception in their reality that relies on instinct for what they are irrelevant of whats going on around them, regardless of what they are day to day not knowing any difference... linear sense of reality

- Rigid duality perception like "Right" or "Wrong", "Dark" or "Light" regarded as a 2nd dimensional perception, as displaced things or sense of awareness has been heightened. Reflection of sense of impact and how this differ within that moment, idea of time is irrelevant... there's a length and vastness of width of a reaction

- Cause and effect, the right duality perception is no longer an issue, the idea of how impact created by a cause which creates an effect. This abstract is common throughout our daily day to day basis in our society, how one things effects another with reasoning, time plays little role in the perception... the idea of area and depth of reasoning is added

- The sense of empathy and "forethought", predicting something, this is regarded as having 4th Dimensional perception, as one would notice their predicted impact from cause and effect Overtime. However only a limited sense of "what if" sense due to limited sense of possiblity from their own experience only. Able to reflect upon the past, uneffected by present state, similar in regards of future reflection... The idea of 3D concept and time perceptions

- The extension of other's experience.. to the subliminal level and realisations, a connective thoughts, some sort of "psychic" connections. But is powerless to alter the main frame of the timeline is regarded as 5th Dimensional perception... Perception of multiple realities only and can only bend time linearly...

- The sense of multiple experience and the ability of time and space manipulation in a mechanical sense, that's regarded as 6th Dimensional perception... cause and effect in many different possibilities, ability to cross over all possible timelines and create impact in mechanical ways (manually... not molecular or subatomic level)

- The inifinite possibilites of perceptions and actions in regards to impact of things in any given time but only limited to the laws and conditions of the universe, regarded as 7th Dimensional perception... Infinite possibilites and manipulation of the universe down to the subatomic level of shift as one wish, only limited to the given set of conditions

and so on, :happy15: with all its infinite possibilities in the given condition of our consciousness awareness. Note: All reality in any of the certain dimensions are infinite in its possibilities... so there's no limit to what a string of line is limited to.. it will always forever running, same with area, space, time and whatever it is it maybe ;) hence why we have unlimited imagination despite our limited sense of dimensional perception

Hope this explains very well in regards to the idea of 7th dimension, realities and Fringe events xD :D

LateSeptember

11-24-2012, 04:56 PM

I edit the post above so it has a better explanation of the analogy, it is advised that if you read have read them, if you don't mind, re reading them again if you found some inconsistencies in my post :p

LateSeptember

11-24-2012, 11:09 PM

Note: In regards to reality interpretation through our level of awareness and spatial dimension stuff :p don't get it confused because all I'm trying to convey is such a general thing and the plot relevancy to Fringe doesn't need to be considered because its just how we manifest our reality in general. Hence plotwise, its automatically implied anyways in our human nature. I'm just trying to explain something that we are all subconsciously aware of and point out and sort clear the common misinterpretation of realities and dimensional awareness (consciousness) stuff like that. Also on an interesting info, yes the observers have far more awareness and capabilities in their manifestation of actions due to their cortial implant chip, but their awareness come at a greater cost of responsibility ;) so its fair and square

Mancha

11-26-2012, 05:04 PM

Hmm, interesting theories LateSeptember! Thanks for sharing!

LateSeptember

11-26-2012, 11:29 PM

I'm up for any questions in regard to this ;) feel free to comment on this thread or personally contact me about it :p

LateSeptember

11-27-2012, 06:02 AM

new age approach on 12 dimensions of consciousness. http://www.peaceinpractice.iinet.net.au/dimensionsofconsciousness.htm which takes my theory even weirder. If you are not familiar with it then yeah it maybe too foreign to be considered, but none the less keep an open minded, they are focusing more on our non physical being essence of energy awareness (or soul)

I have personally studied these in the past, whilst there's no doubt the possibility of some truths in their explanations. There are still a pinpoint scientific explanation that requires more explanation. Also a confession, I'm actually a bit of a new age sort of person myself xD hence I'm open minded to everything, a lot of myth about new age people is that most of them will not appreciate the wasteful and consumerism society that we live in, infact most genuine new age folks are just happy and accepting where they are :) the idea of existence is to experience something and certainly this is something worth knowing about ;) :p and yes I bought that philosophy in life

spacefilou

11-30-2012, 05:20 AM

I finally took the time to read all this.; some parts I had to read more than once , but I think I understood everything, and that's fascinating.
Those are ideas I touched upon during my maths studies, but not in details, so thanx for having presented this here.

LateSeptember

12-02-2012, 01:17 AM

Hahaha glad you can understand it, I was worried some people wouldn't be able to grasp this

LateSeptember

12-06-2012, 06:04 AM

SHOOT I MADE A FLAW IN MY THEORY, the observer's are 6th dimensional perceiver thanks to the cortial implant, since they are virtually uneffected by the rewrittened timeline xD, now it makes more sense :p so I edit* my post again there

Sambo

12-06-2012, 12:17 PM

LateSeptember

12-06-2012, 07:47 PM

Love it LateSept, great stuff. Hope they bring the audience up to this level of comprehension in the coming episodes, and really delve into the Physics/perception/emotion of the Fringeverse.

Also, is it possible that the Observers are higher than 6th dimensional perceivers? What would be their limit from what we have witnessed?

From what we can see, their limits are that they cannot always turn on these abilities and that they are very much dependent on their implant technologies to do these things as based on the evidence. The idea of 7th Dimension and beyond is basically the ability to control and alter the basic shaping of our universal structures... I don't think they are able to do that without technology, thats where they are limited ;)

Sambo

12-06-2012, 11:40 PM

Thanks mate. I was recently thinking about that scene in Septembers mind, and their ability to witness creation through that kind of a 'mental window' as it were, and got to wondering how that idea of their tech relates to their implants, or if it was more of a 'dreamscape' representation on behalf of Septembers mind perhaps. Any thoughts?

Then there is their 'corridor' strand of tech, so I wonder if their will be any more revelations toward Observer time-travel tech still to come. Would be nice to know what else they have in their arsenal if anything.

Just thinking out loud. :confused0006:

LateSeptember

12-09-2012, 03:42 AM

From logical and narrative quality standpoint view. They have to at least explain more of their abilities, tech, origins and all those things we are still unsure of :D

Rubi

12-19-2012, 02:54 AM

@Droc

Unbelievable, you must have figured out the main theme of the show after only 4 episodes.
Your Lost theories always were great too, but your accuracy at Fringe went over the roof.

Congratulations, wow.

So how will the show end ? ;-)

Cheers

LateSeptember

01-05-2013, 10:39 PM

how will the show ends will remain mystery until 18th January 2013 EST 9PM on FOX xD... I would like to bump the thread just to expand people's consciousness about Fringe "dimensional" concepts involvement, recommended pages to look at in this thread: Page 1 and 5 ;)