Theory on the note about Peter's thoughts!

[Fan13]

Hi all,
I was discussing this weeks episode "Concentrate and ask a again" and came upon a potential revelation of sorts about what REALLY might have been going on in the episode, so read on and see what you think!

I believe the mind reader lied to Olivia with the note that said he still has feelings for Fauxlivia.... Why you ask? Simple, he has fallen for Olivia himself! Think about his situation. He is haunted by his ability, unable to meet new people, go new places, human contact in general is foreign to him at this point. And its not as though hes some shut in hermit with no real understanding or appreciation for the intamacy of human relationships, the MASSIVE amount of drawings of his "girl in the cofee shop" would indicate that he longs for human contact as much as the rest of us if not more so.... Then along comes Olivia, beautiful, caring, charming, and most importantly immune to his ability. How could he not be smitten. He smiles, "This is my first normal conversation in 20 years!" and points out the joy of not being able to know what olivia thinks. He's clearly intrigued by Olivia and has in even a short time grown fond of her company, so much so that he is willing to go with her to a HEAVILy populated city and help on an investigation that may very well kill him. So of course Olivia convinces him to come, because she is different than anyone hes ever met.... But then theres Peter.

It doesnt take a mind reader for him to see they have feelings for one another, and that (For our smitten mind reader) is now a problem... how can he be with her if she wants to be with Peter. But being a mind reader allows him certain advantages, like being able to see what conflicts Peter and Olivia are facing in there relationship by reading peters mind (finding out that peter might care for another woman), knowing what Peter fears Olivia might think, and ultimately being able to convince Olivia that she is being betrayed by Peter. To what end, I would assume we will be seeing our little mind reading friend again at some point, but perhaps not before the damage has already been done to Peter and Oloivia's relationship... For now my theory is that he has, in an effort to sabotage Peter so as to be with the one woman on earth that could offer him peace and companionship, Lied to Olivia about Peter!!!

Tell me what you think Fringe Fanatics!!

[collectivesoul]

I posted this on another board, but it about this issue:

I am upset that Olivia chose to "bite the apple" and read Simon's note. First, she doesn't know Simon, so taking his words at face-value is silly. I do think that there is a distinct possibility that Simon was jealous of her being able to form a relationship with someone. So, sure, why not put out the temptation or lie about Peter's thoughts? Olivia is smart, certainly she'd have to consider this, right?

Second, Peter told Olivia about his thoughts for Faux; "IT doesn't mean that I want to be with her MORE." Which is not a bold-face lie. He just omitted the fact he had some feelings. How can Simon distinguish between two beings that are pretty much the same person?

What got us humans in trouble in the first place? The Forbidden fruit. Knowledge. The first bite of the apple. Destroyed paradise and left us detached from God. Now, faith is required to reach Heaven. Should Olivia have faith in Peter, who metaphorically holds the keys to heaven?

I just wish they'd just go out together, or have make-up sex, or just something. We haven't even had a freaking hug...

[RandyO]

Well Simon both knows the truth (Pete's a two timer, like a guy with a twins fetish), while at the same time, wants to sabotage any plausible reconciliation between her and Peter. Thus, it's a two pronged type of message.

And as for Olivia, I don't know of many guys in Boston who wouldn't want her so I can't imagine a recluse in a log cabin up in Vermont being any different:D

She's awesome and he can't read her mind, and I doubt he'll ever cheat on her with the Green Mountain coffee gal.

BTW, Vermont's a gorgeous state, you should all check it out :tiphat:

[tricked]

BTW, Vermont's a gorgeous state, you should all check it out :tiphat:
Vermont's beautiful, but I prefer Connecticut. Use to work in the fishing industry up there about a decade ago ... but I digress ...

On the topic of Simon purposefully lying to Olivia, I think it's possible but not likely. First of all, I agree with all the reasoning listed in the OP ... he's lonely, longs for human contact, etc and so forth.

But the thing is, he became the way he is because his trust was violated. He was violated. Lied to, betrayed. It ruined his life. And the reason ... he claims ... that he doesn't approach the coffee shop girl, is because it's not his business that he know her thoughts. It will hurt him, and it's also a violation of her privacy.

Now, true ... reading the thoughts of others causes severe physical reactions which are harmful to him on varying levels. But the bottom line, is that the man has ethics.

I don't think he'd lie to Olivia, because he seems to take the high road. Not the low road. And the chances of him ending up with Olivia are what exactly? Suppose his letter does deter her from Peter. That doesn't mean she will run to him. I think Simon showed restraint, compassion, and a realistic understanding of his place in the world. It will take a special person to be with him ... and although Olivia might just be the ONE AND ONLY PERSON who could be with him, she loves Peter and he sees that clearly. Why would he violate and manipulate the one and only person he might ever be able to be free with?

Simon became one of my favorite characters the moment he said, "no one should know another's thoughts." And when he walked away from Olivia, respecting her right to be emotionally attached to someone who might hurt her, he became one of the "good guys." And in his case, unfortunately for now .... good guys do finish last.

Plus, olivia might just like the "bad boy mixed in with the good guy" streak. Although something tells me she doesn't favor it as much as Fauxlivia does. Olivia basically wants an honest, honorable man who can walk in the world she calls reality. If he bends a little bit of ethics, it's cool ... just not too many. Simon seems to me to be an extremely straight arrow "nice guy", but I could still see them together to a degree .... but too bad for him, he showed up too late I'm afraid. She's hopelessly gone for Peter.

[Fan13]

In response to trickedThx for the response and I like your take on the episode and Simon's personality. :)

But doesn't what you say about Simon (his seemingly Straight arrow nature, the way he is unwaveringly honest and giving despite all hes been subjected to) just BEG the question on a show like Fringe, "Ok whats really goin on here?" Shows like fringe LOVE to build your trust around ancillary characters only to pull the rug out from under you at the last second and leave you shocked and confused.

Take the episode Where the patients that had chips implanted in their brains to stop nightmares, later started going crazy, killing people, then dying.. The man who halfway through the episode NOONE whould have suspected to be involved due to his shock and genuine disgust of the ruination of his lifes work, turned out to not only be involved, but the actual person responsible! These shows are built around the misdirection of characters and that is done by overselling the authenticity of certain traits. I see that being done here with Simon, but perhaps on a multi episodic basis.

If hes such a stand-up guy, why would he interfere with Olivia and Peters love life when a "stand-up" guy would know that its none of his business... Lets also not forget you mentioned him saying "no one should know another's thoughts." Yet in an instant he took the initiative to jot down a couple juicy thoughts in Peters head, place them in an envelope, and hand them to the one person he has just got done explaining too about how devastating knowing a persons true thoughts can be?!.. Ok so you know its an invasion and its not something anyone should be able to do, but your ok with potentially dooming a relationship by passing along a message ( an INCREDIBLEY cryptic message at that, I "care" about my roomates cat lol, that doesnt mean Im gonna leave my girlfriend for him)to the one person whos been a friend to you in 20 yrs? Not buyin it myself.

As for the Other question, Does he expect her to come running to him? Of course not... Im not, obviously, insinuating that i know the hows and whys of what would make him think he could somehow manipulate her into caring for him, but he knows that the Fringe division might very well come back looking for his aid at some point or another, perhaps he believes this isnt the last time he will meet Olivia. Or perhaps he isnt even thinking clearly at all.. the man had 50 portraits of a woman he had never even TALKED to on the walls of his log cabin haha. I dont think its out of the realm of possibility that he would be mentally unstable enough to straight up fall for another woman hes actually spent some intimate (as in 1 on 1) and rather emotional time with.

But as i said its just a theory and only time will tell!

[RandyO]

Yet in an instant he took the initiative to jot down a couple juicy thoughts in Peters head, place them in an envelope, and hand them to the one person he has just got done explaining too about how devastating knowing a persons true thoughts can be?!.. Ok so you know its an invasion and its not something anyone should be able to do, but your ok with potentially dooming a relationship by passing along a messageYep, people are bit more complex than just 'straight & narrow' vs 'sleaze & douchebag'. And yeah, Simon could have let it go and walked away, but he wanted attention (either in the present or some expected future date) from Olivia. This is a type of Hail Mary pass for him (sorry, it's Super Bowl weekend):P


Or perhaps he isnt even thinking clearly at all.. the man had 50 portraits of a woman he had never even TALKED to on the walls of his log cabin hahaI knew a guy like the above except it was Olivia Newton John's photos and drawings :shhh:. And for an even crazier guy, photos ops of Boston's subway trolleys :confused0066:. I guess he prefers trains over women.

All and all, those are symptoms of not being able to cope, not love in some true, unconditional form.

[jimmyolsenblues]

Sorry , I don't believe the mind reader feel for Olivia...yes Olivia is amazingly beautiful..but the whole episode I loved the mind reader's face..he just look so tortured so down so crushed...and Walter for knowing he caused this man life's pain and agony...such a well written episode.

[RoughDiamonds]

While I believe that Simon is extremely relieved to meet someone that he is unable to read, I do not think that this suddenly translates into romantic interest.

As for Simon, if we see him again, I'd expect that he be wearing white and in some of Massive Dynamic lab (perhaps wearing a helmet of some kind) working to control his abilities.

[Joanna]

Hi all,
I was discussing this weeks episode "Concentrate and ask a again" and came upon a potential revelation of sorts about what REALLY might have been going on in the episode, so read on and see what you think!

I believe the mind reader lied to Olivia with the note that said he still has feelings for Fauxlivia.... Why you ask? Simple, he has fallen for Olivia himself! Think about his situation. He is haunted by his ability, unable to meet new people, go new places, human contact in general is foreign to him at this point. And its not as though hes some shut in hermit with no real understanding or appreciation for the intamacy of human relationships, the MASSIVE amount of drawings of his "girl in the cofee shop" would indicate that he longs for human contact as much as the rest of us if not more so.... Then along comes Olivia, beautiful, caring, charming, and most importantly immune to his ability. How could he not be smitten. He smiles, "This is my first normal conversation in 20 years!" and points out the joy of not being able to know what olivia thinks. He's clearly intrigued by Olivia and has in even a short time grown fond of her company, so much so that he is willing to go with her to a HEAVILy populated city and help on an investigation that may very well kill him. So of course Olivia convinces him to come, because she is different than anyone hes ever met.... But then theres Peter.

It doesnt take a mind reader for him to see they have feelings for one another, and that (For our smitten mind reader) is now a problem... how can he be with her if she wants to be with Peter. But being a mind reader allows him certain advantages, like being able to see what conflicts Peter and Olivia are facing in there relationship by reading peters mind (finding out that peter might care for another woman), knowing what Peter fears Olivia might think, and ultimately being able to convince Olivia that she is being betrayed by Peter. To what end, I would assume we will be seeing our little mind reading friend again at some point, but perhaps not before the damage has already been done to Peter and Oloivia's relationship... For now my theory is that he has, in an effort to sabotage Peter so as to be with the one woman on earth that could offer him peace and companionship, Lied to Olivia about Peter!!!

Tell me what you think Fringe Fanatics!!

I also have doubts as to the credibility of Simon's notes but for different reasons than you do.

I don't think he was really jealous about Olivia and that he was being devious. I think the credibility is questionable because of how his mind reading ability works.

We had several chnces to get a glimpse of his mindreading process and none of them implied that he can read feelings or make any more sense of the thoughts he hears. First during his encounter with Walter: he could hear exactly his thoughts word by word but he didn't know what they mean. The same thing hapened in the hospital. He was able to read the words on the guys mind but he was unable even to decipher what they referred to, let alone to see their significance. E.g. he didn't know that Maryann was a museum, he just saw the name. So in both cases he saw no context whatsoever to what was being "uttered" in other peoples mind. He was unable to interpret it.

So the only case in which his note could be credible would be if Peter actually thought "I still have feelings for her." Now that's highly unlikely that he could think something like that, using these words, in any scene he shared with Simon. In the hispital Olivia had to ask the guy the right questions to get some answers. Peter did not participate in any conversation witnessed by Simon that could trigger this type of straight response in his mind.

So taking into account all the facts the episode gave us, I perceive it as highly unlikely that his observations were accurate. If he was unable to see a much simpler context before, e.g. the museum, how could he have dwelved into Peter's deep feelings?

I don't think he could.

The thing that leaves me puzzled is his motivation. As I've said, I don't think it's jealousy.

And I will be really disappointed if it turns out to be just lazy and inconsistent writing :(

[RandyO]

Folks, I'm a guy and I want Olivia.

If a real person like her existed, and I wasn't currently with someone else, I'd go down to FBI HQ in govt center right now, leave her my business card, and ask her if she wanted to have dinner at the Omni Parker House or Legal Seafoods. :D I'll bring a case file on some unsolved crimes in the region, to spark some conversation.:hope:

Thus, I can't see why Simon wouldn't either.

[Joanna]

Folks, I'm a guy and I want Olivia.

If a real person like her existed, and I wasn't currently with someone else, I'd go down to FBI HQ in govt center right now, leave her my business card, and ask her if she wanted to have dinner at the Omni Parker House or Legal Seafoods. :D I'll bring a case file on some unsolved crimes in the region, to spark some conversation.:hope:

Thus, I can't see why Simon wouldn't either.

Maybe because he knows he doesn't have much to offer her. I don't think he would really expect that damaging her relationship with Peter would bring her to him. He seemed realistic about his condition.

[rh]

Thus, I can't see why Simon wouldn't either.

Maybe.... because he is already obsessed with this coffee shop girl? I see where you all are coming from, but Simon would not instantly change his mind because he meets a girl (who is inferior to his coffee shop girl - just remember that he considers her to be "perfect") who he could actually date.

Sure, some guys think like that - but others, who believe in romantic love don´t (think Simon is part of the latter group).

[Ika]

Hey, I was confused by Simon handing Olivia the paper. I don't think he fell for Olivia. But his action didn't make sense, first he says "You still don't understand, Olivia. We're not supposed to know what people think." and then this betrayal of his own words? Handing the paper over with the words "This is what it's like to be me." When I saw it, it felt to me a bit as if he was getting back at her, but for what? :confused0006:

[The Bishop Project]

Handing the paper over with the words "This is what it's like to be me." When I saw it, it felt to me a bit as if he was getting back at her, but for what? :confused0006:

Just jealousy perhaps? I have a feeling Simon was quite envious of the lfie Olivia managed to lead even with her background being rooted in the trails aswell.
He probably just feels like an unwanted son, the project that was tossed away to the side in favour of a more successful one - Olivia.

[jophan]

I think there may have been a motivation to teach her how life is for him. She kept insisting that he move out of his protective isolation. Giving her a note (true or false) that would disturb her (she was being pretty obvious about what would) would be a small counterpoint.

[RandyO]

People ... any guy with a 'Perfect Woman' fixation isn't dealing with reality.

My former classmate, who was obsessed with Olivia Newton John growing up, had difficulties in meeting real females until he'd reach adulthood. And the only girl in high school, who even remotely resembled Ms John, clearly wasn't going to date this guy. All her suitors, even in HS, were college freshman since she was movie star material.

And as for grown ups, I knew a former roommate who was fixated on a co-worker for 3 years but she pretty much never gave him the time of day. It was another lady friend who finally shook him out of that tree.

Likewise, this obsession with the Green Mountain gal is just Simon's way of filling his empty hours doing something besides being depressed or drinking or whatever. On the other hand, Olivia is real and is probably and even nicer gal than the Green Mountain one.