"Today was a vision of things to come."

[allanpenc]

"No, Today wasn't a victory today was a vision of things to come"
The Blue Verse will fall apart just like the Red Verse, The Red Verse did research on wormholes and how to seal them. They came up with a substance that formed a crystalized barrier that would seal wormholes.
We know that the Blue Verse recently replicated this substance. I think that the Fringe Division will become more powerful on the Blue Verse as the one of the Red Verse. If they seal one crack another will eventually form and then so on. The cracks will eventually consume Both Verses. Though what happens to mars and those planets? Or somewhere outside of our control?

[PB]

If they seal one crack another will eventually form and then so on. The cracks will eventually consume Both Verses. Though what happens to mars and those planets? Or somewhere outside of our control?

That's an interesting question, and certainly would be a difficult problem for the writers to tackle were they to approach it, but I think the reason that most of the phenomena occurs in the Northeastern United States (New York, Massachusetts) is because that area is essentially ground zero for the first inter-dimensional travel event when Walter crossed over to bring Peter back from the other side. The specific area where Walter first crossed over is Reiden lake, and the fracturing and soft spots caused by this event basically radiate outward from this spot. So the damage to the fabric of the universes starts in a localized spot, and then branches out. I presume that by the time the weakening of the fabric of the universe spreads as far out as outer space that earth will be well on it's way to complete annihilation.

[jay_eilthabhae]

That's an interesting question, and certainly would be a difficult problem for the writers to tackle were they to approach it, but I think the reason that most of the phenomena occurs in the Northeastern United States (New York, Massachusetts) is because that area is essentially ground zero for the first inter-dimensional travel event when Walter crossed over to bring Peter back from the other side. The specific area where Walter first crossed over is Reiden lake, and the fracturing and soft spots caused by this event basically radiate outward from this spot. So the damage to the fabric of the universes starts in a localized spot, and then branches out. I presume that by the time the weakening of the fabric of the universe spreads as far out as outer space that earth will be well on it's way to complete annihilation.

That is as good an explanation as I have ever heard....it makes complete sense...since the soft spots are here, the vortex would open here...and hence by the time it reaches mars...aren't we too dead to be worrying about it already??? :P

[PB]

That is as good an explanation as I have ever heard....it makes complete sense...since the soft spots are here, the vortex would open here...and hence by the time it reaches mars...aren't we too dead to be worrying about it already??? :P

Exactly! Thanks Jay! :D

[tricked]

Okay *raises hand* I have a question.

When Walter talks about vortexes, is he essentially discussing the creation of black holes? Because if he is ... then we're dealing with super dense singularities, extremely microscopic in size (given the amount of limits on how dense they could actually be) ... plus event horizons would be taken into consideration. Yes?

I mean ... how big could the vortex ACTUALLY be to even cause a panic initially? Wouldn't about a one inch by one inch cube of amber be ridiculously more than sufficient?

Feel to free to correct me if I'm saying some idiotic things ... but these clips we see of vortexes the size of stargates and greater being formed like tornados .... there is no way at all that is even possible, yes? Given how NOT dense the surrounding areas are where the vortexes are formed? I mean, compare parts of Boston to a collapsing star and there is no comparison. And a collapsing star causes a singularity to form smaller than a pinhead in size, yes?

Feel free to ignore if I'm way off base :)

[PB]

Okay *raises hand* I have a question.

When Walter talks about vortexes, is he essentially discussing the creation of black holes? Because if he is ... then we're dealing with super dense singularities, extremely microscopic in size (given the amount of limits on how dense they could actually be) ... plus event horizons would be taken into consideration. Yes?

I mean ... how big could the vortex ACTUALLY be to even cause a panic initially? Wouldn't about a one inch by one inch cube of amber be ridiculously more than sufficient?

Feel to free to correct me if I'm saying some idiotic things ... but these clips we see of vortexes the size of stargates and greater being formed like tornados .... there is no way at all that is even possible, yes? Given how NOT dense the surrounding areas are where the vortexes are formed? I mean, compare parts of Boston to a collapsing star and there is no comparison. And a collapsing star causes a singularity to form smaller than a pinhead in size, yes?

Feel free to ignore if I'm way off base :)

Yeah, I see what you're saying Tricked. An incredibly dense singularity would require an immense amount of mass and/or energy (assuming mass and energy being interchangeable due to wave/particle duality and such: e=mc^2). So how could a black hole (more massive than a sun) form from just nothing? And if it were a super dense singularity, even if it only required a small amount of amber, there would never be an opportunity to use the amber because the singularity would suck up everything around it (a black whole being more massive than a planet or a sun would have an equally massive gravitational pull that would implode the earth into the singularity). This leads me to believe that these inter-dimensional rifts/vortexes are actually wormholes, tears in the fabric that separates universes. But perhaps these tears could eventually create a massive singularity that becomes a black hole? One way or the other, I'm definitely thinking wormhole here as opposed to black holes, which I think we agree seems kind of impossible. Good question! :confused0024:

[Stukov]

While not a physics professor, I would have to say there is not enough matter anywhere around these areas to create an actual "black hole". They are being called a black hole simply because it sucks in space.

In reality what is probably happening is the vortex is the actual rip in space/time and everything being sucked in isn't being sucked in as it is going into "non-existence" and the sucking is the vacuum affect of matter suddenly ceasing to exist and other matter moving toward the vacuum.

The cracks are the cracks in the cohesiveness of space-time, the amber is only meant to "glue" to keep space-time together.

[tricked]

Yeah, I see what you're saying Tricked. An incredibly dense singularity would require an immense amount of mass and/or energy (assuming mass and energy being interchangeable due to wave/particle duality and such: e=mc^2). So how could a black hole (more massive than a sun) form from just nothing? And if it were a super dense singularity, even if it only required a small amount of amber, there would never be an opportunity to use the amber because the singularity would suck up everything around it (a black whole being more massive than a planet or a sun would have an equally massive gravitational pull that would implode the earth into the singularity). This leads me to believe that these inter-dimensional rifts/vortexes are actually wormholes, tears in the fabric that separates universes. But perhaps these tears could eventually create a massive singularity that becomes a black hole? One way or the other, I'm definitely thinking wormhole here as opposed to black holes, which I think we agree seems kind of impossible. Good question! :confused0024: Yes wormholes came to my mind as well .... except that the mass/energy which get "sucked into the vortex" seemingly goes nowhere. It doesn't go to the other side. It just disappears.

Which does beg to question ... where the hell does the stuff go, if it's not collapsing into a singularity? "Another dimension" .... a wormhole linking out to a collective mass/energy junkyard in space?

An alternate Staten Island? lol :happy15:


While not a physics professor, I would have to say there is not enough matter anywhere around these areas to create an actual "black hole". They are being called a black hole simply because it sucks in space.

In reality what is probably happening is the vortex is the actual rip in space/time and everything being sucked in isn't being sucked in as it is going into "non-existence" and the sucking is the vacuum affect of matter suddenly ceasing to exist and other matter moving toward the vacuum.

The cracks are the cracks in the cohesiveness of space-time, the amber is only meant to "glue" to keep space-time together. Hmm ... okay I think I can grasp this.

It's essentially matter being sucked into the vaccum, collapsing back to a ground state of zero point energy. In fact ... didn't Walter claim that the glimmer Olivia sees is due to the Casimir effect? If so ... your theory is even more validated as to what is happening me thinx. :happy15::happy15:

[rh]

Yeah, I see what you're saying Tricked. An incredibly dense singularity would require an immense amount of mass and/or energy (assuming mass and energy being interchangeable due to wave/particle duality and such: e=mc^2). So how could a black hole (more massive than a sun) form from just nothing? And if it were a super dense singularity, even if it only required a small amount of amber, there would never be an opportunity to use the amber because the singularity would suck up everything around it (a black whole being more massive than a planet or a sun would have an equally massive gravitational pull that would implode the earth into the singularity). This leads me to believe that these inter-dimensional rifts/vortexes are actually wormholes, tears in the fabric that separates universes. But perhaps these tears could eventually create a massive singularity that becomes a black hole? One way or the other, I'm definitely thinking wormhole here as opposed to black holes, which I think we agree seems kind of impossible. Good question! :confused0024:

You are trying to understand/explain a vortex in the world of Fringe with physics. But as far as I understand it, at a soft spot the laws of physics itself are changing or deteriorating. Imagine that the gravitational constant changes at these spots, gradually increasing the mass of the atoms at the spot and creating this black hole effect. Well, another question is how the amber is able to seal these holes, but hey, it´s science fiction.

[PB]

You are trying to understand/explain a vortex in the world of Fringe with physics. But as far as I understand it, at a soft spot the laws of physics itself are changing or deteriorating. Imagine that the gravitational constant changes at these spots, gradually increasing the mass of the atoms at the spot and creating this black hole effect. Well, another question is how the amber is able to seal these holes, but hey, it´s science fiction.

Well, one of the fun parts about this show is that it does make an attempt to offer some scientific foundations for a lot of the phenomena. Your reminder that the laws of physics are breaking down in the soft spots is an important one, a changing gravitational constant is a great thought. If the laws of physics are breaking down pretty much anything goes.

[tricked]

You are trying to understand/explain a vortex in the world of Fringe with physics. But as far as I understand it, at a soft spot the laws of physics itself are changing or deteriorating. Imagine that the gravitational constant changes at these spots, gradually increasing the mass of the atoms at the spot and creating this black hole effect. Well, another question is how the amber is able to seal these holes, but hey, it´s science fiction. Yes amber is the Fringe version of duct tape :)

And yeah ... I know it's science fiction :(. But I still notice when the "vortex" looks like niagra falls in Hudson Bay and I have to say outloud, "really?" lol :)


Well, one of the fun parts about this show is that it does make an attempt to offer some scientific foundations for a lot of the phenomena. Your reminder that the laws of physics are breaking down in the soft spots is an important one, a changing gravitational constant is a great thought. If the laws of physics are breaking down pretty much anything goes. And you know, that pretty much does sum it up doesn't it? "The laws of physics break down". Deus ex machina par excellence. Anything goes.

And now we can add "emotional quantum entanglement" to the mix :). I wonder when Tom Cruise will be doing his cameo?