The Patch...

[Heruss]

Uh, dude, he wasn't pushing on you as was, he quotes the script area and said you were mistaken. You need to chill out a tad.

[RETLAW]

No, RETLAW, you're wrong. I agree that it conflicts with what we THOUGHT we saw in the Pilot but it's very clear from a quote later in the episode.



I may speculate a bit when it comes to spoilers, but I don't make a habit of misrepresenting dialog or on-screen facts. In fact, if I'm not sure, I check before I post. If I don't have time to check, I will qualify my statements by saying "I thought I remembered" or something similar.

You're neither a moderator nor the appointed guardian of the canon of Fringe, so I would appreciate it if you back off. If you see me make a statement of what's happened in a previous episode, and I don't happen to back it up with a quote, just leave it. It's not your job, and as a community we don't need established members jumping down the throat of new members. All the wrong speculation may be annoying but this community needs to grow, not shrink as we move into season 4 to keep the show alive.

Relax there a bit. It's called constructive dialogue. My response wasn't presented in any rude or aggressive manner whatsoever.
I was wrong. I admit it. I didn't present the information in any condescending or "jumping down the throat" form and I really don't see where you got that. I simply put up some information in a very matter fact sort of way, which many people do in any forum. I apologize if you got overly sensitive about it. You rightly corrected the information.

I am a fan of the show and spent time trying to look into your point. I missed on this one. Simple as that. As to the original point, was Fringe division in service prior to the new team being put together by Broyles (after he met with the Senate comittee regarding the Pattern in the Pilot). This is unclear as far as I can tell. Perhaps that would explain it, or otherwise you've come across a continuity error. Or if it was an intentional writing hint, have we heard anything to back it up since then?
Interesting nonetheless. If anyone has any light to shed on this point, feel free.

[Ryan Trevisol]

Look, I'm going to stop posting for a while. I joined this site because there is a lot of discussion and the spoilers are great. I used to work with a friend and we constantly speculate and dissect the episodes, and now that I can't do that on a regular basis, this seemed like a fun place to come to talk about what each episode meant and where it's going in the future, but I'm sorry to say it hasn't been fun to share on here. I feel like I'm always proving myself and I'm spending an inordinate amount of time looking at transcripts just to find the quotes to lend weight to my posts.

However, and I don't want to sound like a whiny b**** but I have felt, from day one, that the established members of this board (RETLAW, Omniscient Jay, Albert and a few others) make it a point to refute, temper, or reign in the speculation of others. I've detected a general attitude toward newer posters - sort of like they're setting limits on how much the general membership is allowed to speculate. And no, it's never done in an aggressive, "jumping down your throat" manner, but it's persistent. It seems like it's every time I open my friggin' mouth.

The thing that bothers me about this is, if you don't agree with something, you don't have to read it. If you think it's wrong, or you think it's not grounded in enough fact from the show, you don't HAVE to come into the thread and reply to that effect, without offering much to the discussion other than to say you think the poster's wrong. It's not your duty to make sure people aren't mislead by wild speculation.

If you don't like speculation, don't engage it. Don't read it, don't fuel it, but don't dump on those who want to speculate.

I've experienced it and I've seen it directed at others. Heck, RETLAW came into my yellowverse thread in the Speculation Forum to tell me that my post was Pure Speculation. No S#!t Sherlock! It's extremely frustrating as a new member to feel like every time you share something, one of the long-timers is going to come along and smack you down. I'm sick of having to debate every thing I say (see here). And this, for me, was the last straw. Sorry if I snapped and it seemed to come out of nowhere, but I think people in the community should realize how the attitude of this site can be frustrating, daunting, and exclusionary Fringe-Forums can feel to new members.

So I'm going to continue to read the forums, but I won't post, because it's too exhausting.

[RETLAW]

Look, I'm going to stop posting for a while. I joined this site because there is a lot of discussion and the spoilers are great. I used to work with a friend and we constantly speculate and dissect the episodes, and now that I can't do that on a regular basis, this seemed like a fun place to come to talk about what each episode meant and where it's going in the future, but I'm sorry to say it hasn't been fun to share on here. I feel like I'm always proving myself and I'm spending an inordinate amount of time looking at transcripts just to find the quotes to lend weight to my posts.

However, and I don't want to sound like a whiny b**** but I have felt, from day one, that the established members of this board (RETLAW, Omniscient Jay, Albert and a few others) make it a point to refute, temper, or reign in the speculation of others. I've detected a general attitude toward newer posters - sort of like they're setting limits on how much the general membership is allowed to speculate. And no, it's never done in an aggressive, "jumping down your throat" manner, but it's persistent. It seems like it's every time I open my friggin' mouth.

The thing that bothers me about this is, if you don't agree with something, you don't have to read it. If you think it's wrong, or you think it's not grounded in enough fact from the show, you don't HAVE to come into the thread and reply to that effect, without offering much to the discussion other than to say you think the poster's wrong. It's not your duty to make sure people aren't mislead by wild speculation.

If you don't like speculation, don't engage it. Don't read it, don't fuel it, but don't dump on those who want to speculate.

I've experienced it and I've seen it directed at others. Heck, RETLAW came into my yellowverse thread in the Speculation Forum to tell me that my post was Pure Speculation. No S#!t Sherlock! It's extremely frustrating as a new member to feel like every time you share something, one of the long-timers is going to come along and smack you down. I'm sick of having to debate every thing I say (see here). And this, for me, was the last straw. Sorry if I snapped and it seemed to come out of nowhere, but I think people in the community should realize how the attitude of this site can be frustrating, daunting, and exclusionary Fringe-Forums can feel to new members.

So I'm going to continue to read the forums, but I won't post, because it's too exhausting.

I don't necessarily agree with your view of the situation, but you're entitled to it. With all due respect, you seem highly sensitive. I can't speak for others -- though the members you've mentioned by name from my experience tend to add a lot to the forum -- but I am a rabid fan of the show and that is why I post a lot on here (we only joined this forum a few months apart). I do not intend in any way to be elitist, I simply like to voice my views on the show. I can't really control how people read or "interpret" the tone of my posts. I think it's juvenile to try to preface everything with "in my opinion" or "I feel that", but I always try to be respectful in any discussion.

I posted a response to your inquiry in this thread with a very matter-of-fact response (it's here for all to see) and in no way was "jumping down your throat". I even apologized to your perceiving that post as such.

Speculation is not blind, it is often rooted in some reasoning, and thus can be debated. Not everyone agrees with my theories and ideas, and that's fine. I'm sorry you feel the need to be so defensive about responses to your posts, but I feel discussion and open dialogue in this forum make it great.

My advice to you is to continue sharing (your initial point in this thread about the Fringe division time-line was interesting. I appreciated it and would like to get some answers about that.) and to accept that in a forum people are going to add/refute/express themselves, which is fine as long as it's respectful and in line with forum rules. Whatever you decide to do I wish you well, and hope you keep enjoying Fringe.

[Arco]

Ryan--

I empathize with you. I quit posting to another forum because one of the long-time posters was often obnoxious. It was so bad that two others defended me. The poster got personal. I think that I was accused of being a superficial young whippersnapper, something to that effect--amusing, considering that I'm probably older than that person. Anyway, I post because of the give & take. If my own opinion were all that mattered, then there wouldn't be much point in being on a forum.

If it stops being enjoyable--then it's not worth doing. When we disagree, I hope that we can do so in a respectful way & not suck all the fun out of it as happened to me on the other forum.

By the way, I'm not accusing anybody on this forum of anything. How people feel is their perception, & they have a right to their own opinions.

[xevious]

Ryan, I hope you're reading this.

Please do not stop participating. I for one value your posts.

The important thing to remember is that when making a speculation or conjuring up a theory, to remain open minded. Try not to be defensive when others jump in and suggest differences. We should let go of our egos... and not feel personally insulted when a theory we've made is challenged. What matters most is finding truths. We rejoice when we find it and taking credit is less than secondary.

Ryan, there will always be a bit more challenge to posts by newer members, because they've not been around here long... and most of the time when a member runs down dead end paths, they're still new to the forum. I have to admit that there have been a few times when I've been quicker to conclude a theory or point is incorrect, making my own assumptions before thoroughly checking them. But if I'm wrong, I'm more than happy to apologize.

There are a lot of good people on this forum. It's a great substitute for debating Fringe when there isn't someone you can do that with in person. I hope you stay on.

[psychopathicROC]

I'm new here, and I haven't noticed anything rude or standoffish from anyone here. I post whatever I feel like all over the place and have never had a rude response. Sometimes i might not get any response, but i totally understand that there are certain established theories and possibilities and a history of speculation well before I got here - i've read a lot of archives, and understand the tone of the place. Good stuff.

[Ophelia's Hamlet]

In my opinion, if you don't think something is right, you should be allowed to state your opinion on why you disagree. Sometimes one feels as if people are trying to discourage him or her, but it's because one has considered an opinion so much and is frustrated that when written down, people see obvious flaws. When one feels like that and can't find a reason for it, snapping never helps; one should just admit one's mistakes supporting evidence and acknowledge them to forum members and to oneself. Honestly, I've been mad at people myself, but I don't bring it to an angry battle of opinions.
Anyway... I side with Retlaw on this one.

[Ineffable]

Cowboy up people.

If this forum is too rough for you real life must be completely overwhelming.