the ramifications of Peter Bishop

[dolemite]

oh boy, guess we're in for a long season then...

relationship building from scratch sounds like a drag

[kreitsauce]

oh boy, guess we're in for a long season then...

relationship building from scratch sounds like a drag

I'm hoping that Peter is able to either find a fringie way to restore memories, or that his knowledge of Walter and Olivia help him forge those bonds again a little faster.

[iloveireland]

oh boy, guess we're in for a long season then...

relationship building from scratch sounds like a drag

Well we should be past the avoiding, not wanting anything to do with anyone Peter, so I guess it's not 'Right' to the start...

I'm hoping that Peter is able to either find a fringie way to restore memories, or that his knowledge of Walter and Olivia help him forge those bonds again a little faster.

Yeah, exactly.

[Lij]

oh boy, guess we're in for a long season then...

relationship building from scratch sounds like a drag

I don't think the relationships will take that long to re-establish. I don't think it will be overnight either. But remember in 6B we had "emotional quantum entanglement." It may not be scientific, but it is canon in FRINGE.

The way I view the paradox (S1-3) and lineal time (aka the S4 timeline) those we see now in S4 were quantum entangled with their incepted personages in the paradox. Thus it is almost like those who knew Peter or were touched by those who knew him lived two lives. For the main characters who were most involved with Peter, it appears their memories of him may be buried deep in their subconscious. I think we will start to see them come out of their 'fuzz.' Things will be familiar, seem right, Peter will not long be out of their lives. Olivia's cortexiphan-enhanced mind may have her seeing him in waking dreams once again and aid her to rehabilitate her misplaced memories.

[Walternet]

Well, I hope he doesn't. What could he do? And his understanding of the machine and where it came from was based in the paradox, that may not all be true in the timeline of season 4.

but the machine was made before Peter so surely his 'death' as a child doesnt change the fact that he is the only one who can power the machine as it was still initially made for him ?

[naw_dj]

I believe that the current stability between the two universes, will break because of the return of Peter. Could it be that now that Peter is back, start again a strong warbetween the two worlds.
what you think?

[quarteralien]

I hope that Olivia's relationship with Walter doesn't get ruined by Peter coming back. I hope the fact that they are really close continues personally, and it would take some of the pressure off Peter.

I see potential for their closeness this season to unite against Peter and make it harder for him to establish the relationships again. They may protect each other against this strange man who has haunted both of them and claims to know them both. Angst-fest ahead.

[The Question]

I don't think the relationships will take that long to re-establish. I don't think it will be overnight either. But remember in 6B we had "emotional quantum entanglement." It may not be scientific, but it is canon in FRINGE.

The way I view the paradox (S1-3) and lineal time (aka the S4 timeline) those we see now in S4 were quantum entangled with their incepted personages in the paradox. Thus it is almost like those who knew Peter or were touched by those who knew him lived two lives. For the main characters who were most involved with Peter, it appears their memories of him may be buried deep in their subconscious. I think we will start to see them come out of their 'fuzz.' Things will be familiar, seem right, Peter will not long be out of their lives. Olivia's cortexiphan-enhanced mind may have her seeing him in waking dreams once again and aid her to rehabilitate her misplaced memories.

I think your on to something here, the way The Observers explained Peter "bleeding through" and taking into consideration how they view time. Peter simply returning may have created or re-created Past events involving a younger him.

Then there's the message behind the episode One Night In October. Where even though every memory of Margery had been erased from his mind, something still remained. He didn't immediately turn into the serial killer he admitted he would be (and was in the Redverse) without Margery.

and what Broyles says to Olivia at the end of the episode in response to her worry that without those memories he'll become a killer.

“At the risk of sounding sentimental, I always thought there were people who leave an indelible mark on your soul, An imprint that can never be erased.”

Coupled with the Soul Magnets fiasco I think we can reasonably assume that when a character talks about a soul, they aren't just being religious.

I think they remember Peter and everything that happened before somewhere deep down. That's why went looking for them, and Olivia "just had a feeling" that the Blue Energy wasn't trying to hurt them and that it wanted their help. And given Olivia's dormant cortexiphan abilities and the manner of Peter's return, coupled with the strong bond they've always had. Olivia is probably going to be crucial in this process, or may become the only person who Can remember.

Or for that matter, perhaps the only person willing to open their mind enough to be Able to access those lost memories. Because it seems to me like they aren't going to trust this random man with this insane story. And when his explanation involves The Machine, it might even be taken out of the hands of people who knew him before. I wouldn't be surprised if they Patriot Acted his butt into solitary confinement after debriefing him.



P.S.
Once Peter realizes what has happened, you think his fling with Bolivia is gonna be among the things he tells Olivia (or anyone)? Or is he gonna cross his fingers, hope she never finds out and pretend it never happened?

---

P.P.S
The Amberverse was under the assumption that the low cortefexiphan dose lasted 24 hours and that's all. Now that there is evidence that the cortexiphan kids still have their abilities as adults. I wonder if we are gonna see some X-Men style recruiting (basically what Walter intended until he lost his memory and fanatics warped the interpretation of his work). Because that could be really cool or really stupid depending on how it's done.

[Lij]

but the machine was made before Peter so surely his 'death' as a child doesnt change the fact that he is the only one who can power the machine as it was still initially made for him ?

I wish I knew the answer to that, but I don't. I do not know when the Machine was built, nor do I know if the Machine was keyed to Peter in this reality. I am 99.9% sure that the Machines in the S4 timeline have no relationship to the First People.

When was the Machine constucted? Was it constructed before 1985 or after in the S4 timeline? I am more inclined to think that the Machine was built after 1985. But that is just a feeling. So then why should either Machine have been keyed to any Peter? And as the Machines stand now they are fused into one Machine in the nexus (bridge-room). So one might wonder if the act of fusion rendered the extant Machine to be operational.

There is a lot we still do not know about the Machine. So I guess all we can do is put our own views and desires into what the machine can do.

[Lij]

....and what Broyles says to Olivia at the end of the episode in response to her worry that without those memories he'll become a killer.

“At the risk of sounding sentimental, I always thought there were people who leave an indelible mark on your soul, An imprint that can never be erased.”

Coupled with the Soul Magnets fiasco I think we can reasonably assume that when a character talks about a soul, they aren't just being religious.

I think they remember Peter and everything that happened before somewhere deep down. That's why went looking for them, and Olivia "just had a feeling" that the Blue Energy wasn't trying to hurt them and that it wanted their help. And given Olivia's dormant cortexiphan abilities and the manner of Peter's return, coupled with the strong bond they've always had. Olivia is probably going to be crucial in this process, or may become the only person who Can remember.

Or for that matter, perhaps the only person willing to open their mind enough to be Able to access those lost memories. Because it seems to me like they aren't going to trust this random man with this insane story. And when his explanation involves The Machine, it might even be taken out of the hands of people who knew him before. I wouldn't be surprised if they Patriot Acted his butt into solitary confinement after debriefing him.

P.S.:: Once Peter realizes what has happened, you think his fling with Bolivia is gonna be among the things he tells Olivia (or anyone)? Or is he gonna cross his fingers, hope she never finds out and pretend it never happened?

Exactly. I should have mentioned Broyles' statement. Broyles' statement leads one to believe that while a person forgets someone who changed your life's outlook, you should still have that outlook in your life. This might be why without Peter, Walter is still controllable by Olivia. And it could even be a factor in his newfound desire to go out in the field in this episode.

How so then is it when that fogotten person comes back into your life. The first thought might be one of comfort with the person. But it's difficult to see comfort in the experiences of Walter in the first 3 episodes. However, Walter in his neurotic state would not be comforted by a 'vision' which threatens to send him from a manageable neurosis into a psychosis. Walter's mind was just not ready for Peter. But Olivia most evidently is.

I think that Olivia will be the one who is most disconcerted by Peter's return. She will have feelings for him which she cannot understand because they have no basis to her logical, detective-based FBI mind. The evidence is within her, but I feel that this Olivia does trust herself somewhat more than herself in the paradox. That too might be Peter's gift to her.

I think it will play out somewhat in a tiered fashion with Olivia being most 'sensitive,' then Walter, and finally Astrid, who I would use to represent those more casual relationships to Peter. There may be four, maybe five tiers of understanding for them concerning Peter, call them familiarity, faith, trust, and recognition. The first I see as familiarity, and I think Olivia has already exhibited that aspect. She has had dreams of Peter and has sketched him. It was necessary that she find some aspect of that visage as familiar in order that she progress to the next aspect, faith.

And it is faith that Olivia expresses at the end of this episode even as Walter is yelling for Cameron to destroy the E-M field. Olivia has faith not only in her own feeling toward this visage of Peter but in the visage itself. But even faith cannot lead to absolute trust and it is left to Peter to gain that trust by his actions. But once trust is established recognition may not be far behind. And yes, I too see that it is Olivia who comes to each stage first, and so too it is Olivia who helps guide Walter and the 'Astrids' towards their recognition of Peter. Walter by all rights should come around first, then Astrid, Broyles, etc...

And there may be a fifth step which is memory recovery. But I do not see that occurring with just anyone, I think Olivia is the primary one and Walter, secondarily. I cannot see that all memories of happenstances are recovered but more memories of feelings, of their love for each other, of the love between father and son. Nothing else is important for the characters, and it leaves Peter with knowledge of paradoxical events which still puts him in the center of the action on FRINGE.