Faux-Walter / Faux-Olivia

[Alquist]

I wouldn't get too bent out of shape. Even for those of you who've pointed out that the writers say that the characters will never go back to their blue-verse originals. I mean, Peter has returned, and technically that gives them all a second chance to revisit - for the first time - their cumulative relationships with him and themselves. Kinda like saying that in a way, yeah, given time and patience, they could all return to an "approximation" of what they were in the blue-verse simply because all of the right ingredients are present. (it's just that the bowl holding those ingredients, and the inclusion of new ingredients - like the hybrid shape shifters - are present now as well).

Exactly. I don't like the way Walter and Olivia are now, but I don't think we're supposed to. I think that through their building new relationships with Peter, they will become, more or less the people they were. But I think it will be interesting to see it all happen again in a different way.
The mixing bowl is a good example, but I keep thinking of the line from Battlestar Galactica - "All this has happened before, and all this will happen again..."

[gingerwood]

I actually like this development, assuming that it's temporary. Peter's always been the one who's been the least invested in being part of the team. Olivia originally forced him onto the team using blackmail, he spent a lot of season one about one more bad night's sleep away from just up and leaving, then he runs away when he finds out the truth about his origins. He's always been able to take for granted that Walter and Olivia would be there when he needed them. Now suddenly they aren't and he's going to have to work for acceptance. I think that once he gets back to the blue universe, he's going to value those relationships a lot more than he has up till now.

[Lij]

Perhaps one should turn it around. The Olivia and Walter we saw from the first three seasons were the faux-ones if what Peter says is true - that he is the paradox.

But don't forget there is "emotional quantum entanglement" in FRINGE. We saw in in action in 6B and voiced by Broyles, "I've always thought there were people who leave an indelible mark on your soul. An imprint that can never be erased." So I surmise like ShogunOrta that they will be recovering their feelings towards each other and forge that with new experiences which strengthen their newfound trusts for each other.

So that is what FRINGE season 4 is mostly about as far as character development - finding their way back.

[Mutsie]

Perhaps one should turn it around. The Olivia and Walter we saw from the first three seasons were the faux-ones if what Peter says is true - that he is the paradox.

But don't forget there is "emotional quantum entanglement" in FRINGE. We saw in in action in 6B and voiced by Broyles, "I've always thought there were people who leave an indelible mark on your soul. An imprint that can never be erased." So I surmise like ShogunOrta that they will be recovering their feelings towards each other and forge that with new experiences which strengthen their newfound trusts for each other.

So that is what FRINGE season 4 is mostly about as far as character development - finding their way back.

Total agree here! Emotions seems also a red line in Fringe and eventhough Peter is the paradox he sure left an imprint behind.

[Moviemath]

Hmm, interesting thread.

What do you guys think of the erasing of Blue-Walter? It seems like all the peter bonding / emotional healing / becoming independent never even happened, and the past three seasons of character development were for nothing.

I hear ya BB, and you may be closer to the reality of the situation than most realize.

maybe Peter has made a mistake and dropped into the wrong universe, and he'll find the right one and then we can go back...let's hope so!

This kind of treatment can be fun, and often morally instructive upon the character's return to his rightful 'universe' though I doubt Season Four will go this way. George Bailey does not a Peter Bishop make but the idea/concept is tried and true. Maybe that's what the Season Three finale aimed at conveying - that by doing the right thing from now forward increases the odds of a better future Cheesy but fun.

I wouldn't get too bent out of shape. Even for those of you who've pointed out that the writers say that the characters will never go back to their blue-verse originals. I mean, Peter has returned, and technically that gives them all a second chance to revisit - for the first time - their cumulative relationships with him and themselves. Kinda like saying that in a way, yeah, given time and patience, they could all return to an "approximation" of what they were in the blue-verse simply because all of the right ingredients are present. (it's just that the bowl holding those ingredients, and the inclusion of new ingredients - like the hybrid shape shifters - are present now as well).

Nicely put and probably the way the writers will take the myth-arc.

... don't forget there is "emotional quantum entanglement" in FRINGE. We saw in in action in 6B and voiced by Broyles, "I've always thought there were people who leave an indelible mark on your soul. An imprint that can never be erased." So I surmise like ShogunOrta that they will be recovering their feelings towards each other and forge that with new experiences which strengthen their newfound trusts for each other.

So that is what FRINGE season 4 is mostly about as far as character development - finding their way back.

This

Over the years I have come to believe that certain mythology 'changes' are made for purely practical reasons. Sometimes the current storylines become convoluted beyond reasonable control, coupled with falling ratings that inadvertently trigger a necessary 'damage contol' response where warning bells sound loudly and network executive memos arrive on pink bits of paper! Emergency meetings held, coffee supplies depleted at alarming rates, and showrunners apetites lost amid the mayhem of 'Gah!!! We're on the Titanic and there's only one life jacket left!'

I remember Season Three as the watershed season for many viewers, polarizing those who couldn't care less anymore about the show and its characters and those diehard fans whose unflappable loyalty kept them hanging in til the bitter end. My thoughts on Season Three as it progressed were unsavory to say the least and many a vitriolic post written regarding issues like the P/O/F 'love triangle' thing, Baby Henry and other rather 'nonsensical' mythology developments that appeared to blatantly disregard questions raised and left unanswered from Seasons 1 and 2. However... with the Season Three finale we had a mythology RESET, which like a nuclear bomb... laid waste to what landscape existed before the annihilating explosion.

Moreover, this article [emphasis/changes added] >>>

May 8 2011 11:57 AM ET

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'Fringe' Mystery Finale: We've solved it! PLUS: John Noble, Joshua Jackson talk cliffhanger, renewal and more

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“It’s radical. It could wipe clean the entire slate of Fringe.”

So said Joshua Jackson in an interview with EW.com a few weeks ago about the season finale of the Fox sci-fi series. It was a bold claim, and hard to appreciate without knowing what was going to happen in “The Day We Died.” But now we know. The finale was part Crisis On Infinite Earths and part “Days of Future Past” with a touch of A Christmas Carol (“Ghost of Christmas Yet To Come” section): After activating the so-called “doomsday machine” engineered (allegedly) by a sophisticated primordial culture known as The First People, Peter Bishop (Jackson) was allowed to observe a key passage of his life 15 years in the future. How? We were encouraged to believe that 2026 Walter (John Noble) had developed the means to draw 2011 Peter’s consciousness into the future via “brain porting” (one of several curious new fringe science words included in the show’s credit sequence; also see: Desmond Hume from Lost) so Past Peter could realize that choosing to use the doomsday machine to destroy the “over there” parallel world would produce a bleak, terminal future for the “over here” world. I think. (For a full recap, check out Ken Tucker’s blow-by-blow summary and ace analysis.)....

Armed with this knowledge, Past Peter’s consciousness returned to his proper temporal moment : 2011, strapped into the “doomsday machine.” We were encouraged to believe that instead of choosing to destroy the “over there” world, Peter did something different: He created a bridge between the two universes that brought his fathers (Walter and Walternate) and his lovers (Olivia and Bolivia) together in one spot. With everyone together in the same room, Peter challenged the two Walters to stop fighting and use their combined brilliance to figure out a way to save both worlds. Peter might have said more — but then he mysteriously vanished. And then those left behind looked at each other as if Peter’s disappearance was no big deal. Why? Because according to The Observers, they had forgotten all about him. From their perspective, Peter Bishop never existed.

So… what happened? It appears as if all of history was rebooted...


But the time-jumping reality-rebooting cosmic reconciliation that was “The Day We Died” was still a few episodes away when we sat down with “the Bishop boys” late last month. They spilled some beans about the finale - Example: In discussing the potential ramifications of the cliffhanger, Jackson and Noble admitted that they had mixed feelings about the season’s Peter & Olivia/Bolivia love triangle.

JACKSON: [Romance] is inevitable when you have a man and a woman in leading roles on a TV show, but I do feel it was a distraction from the central story of the show. It was interesting, especially in the larger context of the season’s doppelganger idea. It was also really good for Olivia’s character, because it continued to feed one of her animating features – that she’s consistently disappointed and betrayed by the people close to her. In retrospect, it feels necessary to get us together. … But what’s central to the show is the communal fate of our core characters, not the individual strands that link them. The ‘broken family’ dynamic we hammered out in season one, that to me is where the show lives best, this bizarro Father Knows Best. … I feel the romantic portion of this show is now over so we can spend more time being Fringe again.

“The romantic element needed to be done,” says Noble. “But where we leave off, we can go any number of ways, and I like that we’re moving on.” Jackson adds that Fringe could even opt to leave behind any number of unresolved bits given the way “The Day We Died” ended, from the loopy love triangle to the Peter/Bolivia love child. In fact, both actors are glad the finale didn’t even try to deal with that latter bit of business. “That’s a five episode story arc, not 10 minutes at the end of a season,” says Noble. Adds Jackson: “We bought ourselves the ability to not pay those things off without cheating the audience. It’s genius.”

“Genius,” Noble agreed.

Article here...

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I'm not sure about the genius part but certainly the show's production team have procured once more a sleight-of-hand manoeuvre that will in all likelihood leave previous questions unanswered and mysteries unresolved. Which brings us back to BananaBob's OP:

... It seems like... the past three seasons of character development were for nothing.

I hear ya Bob, and you may be closer to the reality of the situation than you think.



BTW: Enjoying Season Four so far! Have a good one.

.

[Asterix]

I think the writers have said in interviews that this is for keeps :/

Some of those people also wrote for LOST and said certain things weren't going to happen and they did....soooooo I wouldn't trust these writers. They're throwing you for a loop on purpose.

[RETLAW]

What you can take from the interviews over the years is that the show-runners contradict themselves and are often vague and intentionally cagey.

This has especially been true since the ratings dropped in the first two seasons and Fringe was on a "cancellation watch", move to Fridays etc. You just can't really take much of what Wyman and Pinkner say without a grain of salt.

Even back in the day they said adamantly they will not touch time travel on Fringe, then we got "White Tulip" (thankfully, as it is one of my favorite episodes) and all the recent time-line reset business.

They've also admitted they have made stuff up as they've gone along. Then, there's been intentional misdirection. Most of the time you actually have to watch the interviews, as W&P often laugh, wink, and their mannerisms can tell you if they are messing with you or somewhat serious, but I find their interviews less telling of late. And Josh Jackson is notoriously a trickster when it comes to interviews. He is very tounge-in-cheek about everything (like showing up to the ComiCon panel dressed like an Observer).

[Duque de Osuna]

I really doubt that they're going to erase the previous 3 seasons. I think Peter somehow traveled to a new universe and he'll get the Fringe team to find a way to send him back.

Hm... Interesting thought. This would be one way to go, and it would save us from feeling that the last three seasons spent getting to know and care about all the characters was not all for naught. I want the Olivia and Walter that we got to know back! These new versions are strangers and, frankly, I do not much care about them.

I am pretty sure this is the last season of Fringe, so the writers know they only have another 19 episodes left to wrap everything up. If the end of Fringe is anything like the end of Lost we will all be left with more questions than answers, even after the last episode.

[BananaBob]

Hm... Interesting thought. This would be one way to go, and it would save us from feeling that the last three seasons spent getting to know and care about all the characters was not all for naught. I want the Olivia and Walter that we got to know back! These new versions are strangers and, frankly, I do not much care about them.

I am pretty sure this is the last season of Fringe, so the writers know they only have another 19 episodes left to wrap everything up. If the end of Fringe is anything like the end of Lost we will all be left with more questions than answers, even after the last episode.

Well we can just watch the first two / three seasons and pretend like this one never happened . I hope it doesn't come to that.