Return of the White Tulip... Amberverse Style

[The Question]

When they finally consider that Peter isn't the cause then cut to introduce the audience to the lonely man using a form of time manipulation to save his wife...

...My Initial Reaction was to be a little annoyed that it seemed repetitive, but that was sort of the point.

And It Worked.

The Whole Groundhog Day thing etc. was all great.

And that's why I'm Happy it reminded me of the guy from While Tulip, because it's a similar story. And one of the changes of the Amberverse is that Walter may not have unplugged his wire and filled in the equation.

After losing Peter twice, Walter is stone set on not breaking the unbreakable rules anymore.

Just when I'm about to get off the "Everything is Different but Kinda the Same" bandwagon. It hits me all over again how much I'm enjoying this, but after seeing the promo (and it's the fall finale). I worry that they are thinking a little too long term

It's amazing, I just wanna make sure we Get There before the show gets cancelled or something (hopefully I'm just reading the BS negative internet rumors, but so many of my favorite shows have been chopped lately).

---

Nice call on the statue of liberty Faraday Cage easteregg jophan, I totally thought of you when it came up in the episode.

[ApplesBananasRhinoceros]

So are you asking whether Peter is using the doomsday machine (maybe he's still in it?) to save the woman he loves (Olivia) like Alistair Peck and Raymond and therefore might really be causing these time slips and this all isn't happening? Why would Peter be affected by the timeslips independent of the spiral?

[The Question]

I wasn't saying that Peter and Peck have much in common. But it's Interesting you say that since I would compare Walter to Peck and this new reality has traded the positions of Walter/Peter. Where Walter is the one rejecting Peter and he's the one that just wants to be friends (there are tons of parallels). So to see this new version of an old idea re-done in so many ways that it's brand new but has roots.. it's great.
However when asked about it Peter said he wasn't reaching out to Olivia on Purpose. From what we saw and what she told us, it seemed like he was in pain and crying out for help. Now if he literally wasn't aware of wherever/whenever he was he was gone. Then I'm gonna go with Soul Attraction because I don't think Peter or Olivia could rationally decide to screw over a universe so they could be together.
That coupled with how are they gonna remember him and Broyles quote about certain people leaving indeliable marks on your soul and how all the characters with the most history of emotion towards Peter are having weird moments where their gut tells them to trust or love him but their rational mind says, "he's a creepy stalker with a weird story"

However I don't know if they are ever going to actually Remember anything. They may just find that there is something familiar and comfortable about Peter and he will work his way back in over time.

This plays with the idea that it's all repeating and each time while things are different etc. You tend to dance with the same people you danced with last time. We float in the same circles for multiple lifetimes in several realities if the Foundational Bond is Strong Enough.

[RETLAW]

Ahh. I remember back in Season 1 the producers insisted they would not touch time travel on Fringe, that it was far too messy and they wouldn't go there.

"White Tulip" is one of my favorite episodes. It is simply a beautiful and poetic episode, with great acting and a grace to it. I often use it as a stand-alone to show my friends in order to turn them on to Fringe.

Besides the Faraday cage, and obvious time-jumping references, "And Those We Left Behind" really resonates with the sacrificing reality using science for preserving a love.
I mean it's just very reminiscent of "White Tulip"'s framework all around.

I would also agree with The Question on a lot of the "Peter/Walter" dynamics in the current storyline. They are doing a good job with subtly exploring how those roles have changed.

I do appreciate the new take on "Tulip's" concept, especially in light of the time-reset of this season, and thought it was one of the better episodes this season. However, "White Tulip" will always be untouchable in my mind's eye.

[ag86]

White Tulip is a great episode, one of the best, I agree with you, from the glory days of S2 Fringe... I totally agree.

I do appreciate how they're approaching the Time Loop phenomenon in this episode, though... Very clever. Also, some of the storylines in S4 so far have been slightly reminiscent of previous storylines... Makes me think of the title "Same Old Story".

I think there's plenty of evidence that the writers are going Somewhere, and I, like, would like it to happen soon, but I also enjoy a lost Peter, someone who was on their own for so long when S1 started and now finds himself totally lost without certain people in his life.

I also think that this show will pick up speed if they up the pace with callbacks to previous Seasons, letting us know that they're connecting the dots and moving along the major arcs and not just taking us on a side trip through Amberverse.

[The Question]

I've been getting my a friend of mine into watching Fringe and it was actually kind of interesting to have him see the And Those We've Left Behind episode first and then White Tulip the day later. Because in the Fringe world, before sometimes does happen after. And you guys are right, White Tulip is an amazing episode in and of itself, no matter what.

White Tulip is a crazy episode and I didn't wanna comment on it till I had re-watched it.

I get how the white tulip letter was sent, because he took it with him and dropped it in the slot on the last jump. And any mis-logic that may still be there is smoothed over by the fact that Walter told him how he was looking for a sign, it's a storytelling device.

But after watching it my friend brought up the notion that he thought that Peck was lying and he just wanted to die with his wife. And while I always remembered it as some kind of unforeseen shift of events from him jumping that Walter was trying to imply might happen. That things will change that you won't expect. But after rewatching the final scene of him jumping back, he just runs to her, gets in the car, and it's very french silent film with no sound as he just sits there in awe of her. And then they get hit by a truck.

Now, did he not know how the accident happened? Like did he not know that he needed to get to her to start driving and pull out, not just sit there? Was it some sort of unforeseen ripple effect that Walter warned him about? Or did he really just want to die with his wife, ensuring that she knew he loved her? [Perhaps he also changed his mind partway through from saving her to dying with her realizing what it would be like with all that crap inside him, plus what Walter told him about how he wouldn't be able to look her in the eyes knowing what he'd done]


Or something else entirely? I'm gonna go check the White Tulip forum and if this has already been totally done just point me to the right Thread. But if anyone has a the spare time to give me a quick response if they have the answer, I'd Be Extremely Grateful.


Oh, and how did I not notice this the first time I watched it, What is going on with Walters eye! My friend has noticed this ever since I started showing him episodes and I feel like I really missed something here. Because it's everywhere and in this episode it's almost impossible to miss. Does John Noble have some kind of weird eye defect that they like to play with using lighting or something?

But more than that, this halfway split of peoples faces using lighting coming from one direction so half through faces are dark and the other half lit is everywhere. As is more eye stuff, just not as Prevalent as it was in White Tulip and Peter. And probably other episodes around the time when Peter found out the Truth and Walternate and we Really Saw the Redverse. [the last ¼ of season 2]

[fringeG33k]

...snip...

Or something else entirely? I'm gonna go check the White Tulip forum and if this has already been totally done just point me to the right Thread. But if anyone has a the spare time to give me a quick response if they have the answer, I'd Be Extremely Grateful.


Oh, and how did I not notice this the first time I watched it, What is going on with Walters eye! My friend has noticed this ever since I started showing him episodes and I feel like I really missed something here. Because it's everywhere and in this episode it's almost impossible to miss. Does John Noble have some kind of weird eye defect that they like to play with using lighting or something?

...snip...

I don't think I have a complete answer for you, but I do remember a scene when the Fringe team was going through Peck's present day house and he(Peter) picks up the toothbrush holder to remark that there are two toothbrushes in it, and his conclusion was that there were two people living there. Unless Peck was keeping his dead fiancee's toothbrush for years (creepy. ew.) then I have kind of wondered if this was an effect of Peck's current intention during that portion of the episode to save his wife, much like the white tulip was the effect of Peck's intention to send Walter a message even though to Walter they had never truly met.

Another example of effect before cause.

As for the eye thing, I've seen previous posts that have talked about how John Noble has had cataract surgery, and the glint in his eye is an effect of that because I think there is some sort of lens in his eye or something. Fringe no longer has the budget to remove excess glint I guess. heh

[bonnie scotland]

however i don't know if they are ever going to actually remember anything. They may just find that there is something familiar and comfortable about peter and he will work his way back in over time.

This plays with the idea that it's all repeating and each time while things are different etc. You tend to dance with the same people you danced with last time. We float in the same circles for multiple lifetimes in several realities if the foundational bond is strong enough.

this!!!!!!i'd buy this if peter's not in the wrong reality!