Observer Theories - Why Red Peter is alive in Amberverse and more...

[Lunatic Fringe]

Why Peter is alive..... Double Entendre

In the same way that "it's not easy being a father" was used to foreshadow Alt-Liv's pregnancy, I believe that "they can never know that the boy grew to be a man" is being used to clue us that Peter never died at the lake. Now that we understand that Walter lost Red Peter in the ice, just because Walter believes he's dead does not make it so. First, I believe that the Observer has begun to show moments of compassion, enough that I don't believe he could have easily stood by to allow Peter to die. One can also question the meaning of "the boy is important" as part of a larger grand design, if in fact the Observers always intended to "possess" Peter.

Observer meddling, S3 finale, the creation of the bridge room, perceptions and events....

Just upon the Peter's words "so we can begin to fix", Peter disappeared. What most likely happened? I believe the observer waited for Peter to create the bridge, and then traveled BACK to the lake in order NOT to save Peter - at least as far as Walter was concerned. This theory is not new, but could they have let him die? I don't believe they did - I think that they waited until Walter exhausted his ability to save Peter, then simply took him. Again - "grew to be a man".

Further, it always has puzzled me how the 6 or so central characters STILL ended up in the bridge room at the very moment that they went from the blue/red timeline to the amber one. I mean think about it. You're sitting at your computer reading this right now - just you. If, 25 years ago, someone significant was removed from your life, what's the probability that you would be in the same exact place at the same exact moment, doing the same exact activity? I was not a science or physics major, but common sense tells me that it's HIGHLY IMPROBABLE!! Further, what are the chances that 5 or 6 such people would be doing the same? Darn near impossible!! How, then, could they all still be in that room after Peter disappeared, in an entirely new timeline/universe? They would have had to have been nudged, herded, influenced through those 25 years to get to that room at exactly the same moment. Unless there is another entity with the ability to do this, the only answer is that observers influenced events to get them there. OR perhaps we are supposed to suspend disbelief and they will never address this. I believe the former will be true, and it will become integral to the story-line.

Again, just theories, but it makes much too much sense to me to ignore. Please discuss.

[Joe Curwen]

Further, it always has puzzled me how the 6 or so central characters STILL ended up in the bridge room at the very moment that they went from the blue/red timeline to the amber one. I mean think about it. You're sitting at your computer reading this right now - just you. If, 25 years ago, someone significant was removed from your life, what's the probability that you would be in the same exact place at the same exact moment, doing the same exact activity?

I was not a science or physics major, but common sense tells me that it's HIGHLY IMPROBABLE!! Further, what are the chances that 5 or 6 such people would be doing the same? Darn near impossible!! How, then, could they all still be in that room after Peter disappeared, in an entirely new timeline/universe? They would have had to have been nudged, herded, influenced through those 25 years to get to that room at exactly the same moment. Unless there is another entity with the ability to do this, the only answer is that observers influenced events to get them there. OR perhaps we are supposed to suspend disbelief and they will never address this. I believe the former will be true, and it will become integral to the story-line.

The probability of being at that place at that moment is 100% if you are there when a past event was changed.

I think it's possible that you're looking at the problem backwards. If you go here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novikov...ency_principle you can find the answer to your question. In terms of what is going on in Fringe right now, here is the pull-quote you might like:

The Novikov Principle does not allow a time traveller to change the past in any way at all, but it does allow them to affect past events in a way that produces no inconsistencies—for example, a time traveller could rescue people from a disaster, and replace them with realistic corpses if history recorded that bodies of victims had been found. Provided that the rescuees were not known to have survived prior to the date that the time traveler stepped into the time machine (perhaps because they were taken forward in time to a later date, or because their identities were hidden), the time traveler's motivation to travel back in time and save them will be preserved. In this example, it must always have been true that the people were rescued by a time traveller and replaced with realistic corpses, and there would be no "original" history where they were actually killed, since the notion of "changing" the past is deemed impossible by the self-consistency principle.

Of course, none of this makes sense in a many-worlds scenario (google David Deutch for example), but that is what the writers are doing nonetheless.

Again, just theories, but it makes much too much sense to me to ignore. Please discuss.

I agree with you. These are exactly the right things to be thinking about...it does strongly suggest where the story is going.

--
Joe

[psychopathicROC]

what you were just describing seems to be a pre-destination paradox with no origin, but I do not believe this to be the case; In a physical sense, the things that happened in previously existing time lines did exist, were physically there, and caused physical results that eventually led to the changing of the timeline. Most fictional time travel seems to use a scenario where the timeline is rewritten, "recorded over", altered from the moment of the change and onward, while the traveler is in a "out-of-time" protected "bubble" of sorts and retains his original memories and motivations from the original, no longer existing (from the point of the alteration) timeline. While this sort of time travel maybe not mesh with "real life physics" it is internally consistant and quite common in fiction, and seems to be a lot more what Fringe is going for at this point. Peter caused the changes; As the traveler, he is protected, and has been returned to a timeline that is different from the one he remembers, from both perspectives (his and the new timelines natives).