This Time Has Been Here The Whole Time

[TheOtherMe]

We have come to learn that in some way this set of ajoined parallel universes is separate from the ones we came to know in the first 3 seasons. However, after a thorough examination of events, It only makes sense to me that this/these universe(s) existed before ours and we were introduced to it in season 1.


Walter explained that he and William Bell believed that drugs (LSD) could highten one's awareness...an awareness to the knowledge of other universes. Walter calls that sense, "Deja Vu." This is what they believed cortexifan could also do...


There Is More Than One Of Everything Transcript:

WALTER: When Belly and I were younger men, we regularly ingested large quantities of L.S.D.
PETER: You don't say?
WALTER: We became convinced what we saw while on the drug was real. We believed that we were catching glimpses of another reality, another world just like ours but slightly different, populated by slightly different versions of ourselves. We all experience it momentarily as deja vu. And Belly and I could prolong it with hallucinogenics. But the question of course was -- how to get there without LSD. Belly, as you know, theorized that young children have the capacity to see these other worlds naturally.

In many of season 1's episodes we saw Olivia glimpse another universe. One episode that really stands out is "The Road Not Taken", where the reality glimpse or slips allows Olivia to figure out what was happening to Nancy Lewis and her twin sister Susan Prat.


Many assume that those glimpses into that reality are continuity errors since the FRINGE building and office is nearly identical to her current Agent Broyles, as we come to see that the FRINGE Division in the red universe is much different than this portrayal.


However, what if to remedy this error, or the writers did plan ahead, if that universe Olivia experienced is the universe Peter currently finds himself in?????????


"White Tulip" may also support this idea....
Alistair Peck was able to reset himself in time and create mini iterations (new branch offs/loops) of his reality. In his second go around Olivia comments about "Deja Vu."


White Tulip Transcript

PETER: What?
OLIVIA: Wow, I'm having déjà vu.
PETER: Yeah, I read that déjà vu is fate's way of telling you that you're exactly where you're supposed to be. That's why you feel like you've been there before. You are right in line with you're own destiny.

In this instance the resets all stem from the blue universe. Blue Olivia then senses that another [blue] version of herself has already done this. (But not with out some variation)


Taking this Further: A Look at "LSD"!
In "LSD" Peter and Walter must go into Olivia's mind to try and find her in order to get William Bell out of her body. Like "Brown Betty", I get the feeling that there is double meaning to some of the things the characters experience. When Peter finally goes to Jacksonville, he is tested to prove his loyalty to Olivia. There are two Olivias, a child and an adult version. He sees past the adult version and knows that the 3 year girl is his Olivia. This obviously mirrors Peter's former unawareness that he was with the red Olivia, who pretended to take on the identity of blue Olivia.


There is also a scene on the Zepplin where a mysterious man appears, in which some refer to as "Mr. X" due to his "X" black and white T-shirt...he pushes Walter out of Zepplin to his death at Reden Lake, but the biggest kicker is that once Olivia is back and William Bell seems to have disappeared, Peter asks her who is/was "Mr. X"? --Olivia responds, "The man that's going to kill me!"


FRINGE kicked off season 4 with a new digital comic series Beyond the Fringe: "Peter and the Machine pt. 1" . This is a cannon piece that extends the 2026 timeline in which Peter (it actually turns out Peter views another Peter's experience--"Peter and the Machine pt. 3") travels with the machine through the black whole in central park back in time. The twist is that Peter has to dismantle the machine and leave parts behind in various time periods! When he reaches Greece in 357B.C.E. he sees a possible other incarnation of a pregnant blonde Olivia in a pool before a statue of the God Dionysis....Suddenly a serpent comes straight at her and Peter quickly takes his sword and slays the serpent dead. She is mad at him and tells him he had no right to interfere with her destiny!!!



Thinking back to Mr. X, I wonder if he is from this previous universe (Olivia's mind back-shadowed a previous version of herself) and like the comic, Peter is there to save this Olivia's life from him, and that this "variable" (the "X" could represent a variable) is key in saving his universe(s) and being able to find a place to exist, a way to balance things out....Of course I also think if Peter returns to his reality of origin that some of the things he experienced "here" might reserface "there". Things like the human shapeshifters and Mr. X!

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Extended Explanation to a Friend:


I agree "amber" -and Green titles are a about helping, but from a physics stand point If you have all of these loops, you have several iterations (variations) of what ever the original was....(if you add vast amounts YELLOW to red and blue you could get orange and green. I always speculated that Violet Sedan Chair was a nod to the machines and ultra violet light. In sci-fi ultra violet light sometimes is shown in 'electric' purple, yellow, and white colors)


In 2026 that blue Walter explains that we can't change the past by simply "not building the machine'...that it's too far gone for that. So the only other IMO would be to find an iteration (variation) that is very relative in some way....(So if this would be the timeline Olivia occationally sees/remembers, and since Peter has shared conscience with her, might be another reason why the machine found a way to bring him here, because it's important to her).


So if our set is say (just to get an idea, because it's probably further apart than this) iteration 100, then this iteration WAS 90 (or something like that), but ultimately Peter has come here to ALTER it with his existence. (So upon Peter's arrival it's no longer iteration 90-(A)...it might now be considered iteration 90-B...(This is how Olivia would know about Mr. X and could explain the universe she saw in "The Road Not Taken" (<--because it is not any version of the red universe, it relates to another version of her specific case: Nancy Lewis and Susan Prat.), because she might have 'memory' of her previous existences in her head---Like Desmond seeing all the ways Charlie had died on LOST -->memory transference)


Note: Battlestar Galactica is also something that has been referenced a few times in the show. The [reimaged] series most famous tagline is: "It happened before, it will happen again....and again..."


One of our episode titles last season was, "Reciprocity" ---Reciprocity is about tit for tat social and physical exchanges and/or dynamics....the idea of trying to BALANCE something out. In J.J. Abrams' Star Trek Nero's planet is destroyed in the original time line (Really it's timeline Prime-A, because there is a mirror universe apart of all previous Star Trek series), but when he and Spock go through the worm hole and create a new timeline by folding back to the time of the original series, Nero eventually destroys Vulcan's planet (one planet in one time line for another planet in another, both relating to the existence of Romulans (Nero) and Vulcans (Spock) who happen share a speci origin)....J.J. explains in his commentary that THIS exchange is reciprocity in the Star Trek Universes and that it was meant to explain "fate" between universes relates to the physical dynamics of universes balancing out new existences.


NOTE: "Peter and Machine Pt 3": Cover is Statue of an Observer holding a sword and a SCALE! -He appears as a man of the court, a man of JUSTICE! (Peter saved THE LIFE of another version of a pregnant Olivia, a 357 BCE Greek Olivia, from a snake by slaying it with his sword in pt 1.


IMO that is what Peter is trying to do ("Peter and Machine" go through his struggles of the death of Olivias--all the blue ones he has lost over and over and over again...) If he can change "something here", then he can change "Something there" (Ex: Getting closer to Walternate, Saving Olivia's life, stopping MD from becomming out of control, and to gain NEW information, ect)

I came back because I had one more parallel to add to this. Olivia in "Jacksonville" was able to reconnect with her 3 year old self in a dream state. Proving in one instance she can connect BACK to herself. It is then Ironic that the predetermination of "LSD" should not only give us the elusive Mr. X, but also that "Peter's Olivia" is disguised as her 3 year old self (Choosing to be an image of the past).

[jade86]

Interesting theory! About LSD i have to say that olivia and peter were connected for a long time, more than walter. That reminded me Olivia/john scott's connection when they shared consciousness. I remember that in "safe" olivia experienced moments of john's life. What i mean is that in "LSD" maybe olivia and peter shared pieces of their lifes and that maybe this mister x, who should kill olivia, is actually someone related to Peter.

[Residents Fan]

In many of season 1's episodes we saw Olivia glimpse another universe. One episode that really stands out is "The Road Not Taken", where the reality glimpse or slips allows Olivia to figure out what was happening to Nancy Lewis and her twin sister Susan Prat.


Many assume that those glimpses into that reality are continuity errors since the FRINGE building and office is nearly identical to her current Agent Broyles, as we come to see that the FRINGE Division in the red universe is much different than this portrayal.


However, what if to remedy this error, or the writers did plan ahead, if that universe Olivia experienced is the universe Peter currently finds himself in?????????

.

That's actually a brilliant idea. That Olivia was looking in the Amberverse in TRNT...does that mean a disaster is going to hit Boston through?

[TheOtherMe]

^Perhaps it did. Perhaps that is when "their" machines were turned on...because in this universe they were turned on 3 years ago, and in ours not until 2011...so I guess it depends on what 'disaster' implies too and if the Susan Pratt/Nancy Lewis case happened at the same point in time in each timeline or not

But maybe not and you got me!

[spacefilou]

I don't think she was seeing the amberverse in "the road not taken", cause from what we've seen of the amberverse so far, the activation of the Cortexi-kids seems not to have been done/investigated.
BUT I really think that she was seeing another iteration of the timeloop (a past one..) . It's possible that amberverse is some kind of "future" iteration of the loop though.

[TheOtherMe]

^ I think we really don't know that about this universe. What I mean is just because this Olivia hasn't been 'activated' doesn't mean that none of the other cortixifaners have, or will be. In addition Peter's return also sparks the idea of the cortixifaners, as his arrival brings Olivia, Walter, and Nina to the attention of Cameron James and the trials themselves.

Additionally, as I said in the previous post, the timing of events could be a bit 'off'...it's an iteration, not an exact replica.

It could be a future time loop, but "LSD" IMO is playing on the loops themselves, so i really believe that Mr. X is something that will become something of the past, present, and future...For 'X' to be in Olivia's mind, suggests that he has ALREADY existed --in order to have the memory of 'him' and his 'futuristic' actions. (aka his past actions repeat in several timelines--blue Olivia is linked to other memories of herselves deep deep down via cortexifan and quantum entanglement of Peter's love)

But you could be right in that this could be a bit of a monkey wrench to the theory.

[spacefilou]

^ I think we really don't know that about this universe. What I mean is just because this Olivia hasn't been 'activated' doesn't mean that none of the other cortixifaners have, or will be. In addition Peter's return also sparks the idea of the cortixifaners, as his arrival brings Olivia, Walter, and Nina to the attention of Cameron James and the trials themselves.

Additionally, as I said in the previous post, the timing of events could be a bit 'off'...it's an iteration, not an exact replica.

It could be a future time loop, but "LSD" IMO is playing on the loops themselves, so i really believe that Mr. X is something that will become something of the past, present, and future...For 'X' to be in Olivia's mind, suggests that he has ALREADY existed --in order to have the memory of 'him' and his 'futuristic' actions. (aka his past actions repeat in several timelines--blue Olivia is linked to other memories of herselves deep deep down via cortexifan and quantum entanglement of Peter's love)

But you could be right in that this could be a bit of a monkey wrench to the theory.

You mean that what we saw in "the road not taken" could be still to come in the amberverse? I'm not sure .. there's Charlie in her visions.. do we know exactly what happened to him in the amberverse?
ANyway, though I doubt that Olivia's visions were of the amberverse, I really like the idea that she was seeing another iteration of the loop.

[psychopathicROC]

Random thought - in the loop, the timeline is continually rewritten until they get to this point. If past iterations of the loop remain as memories buried and "overwritten" then this could explain: Olivia's "alternate universe" vision; Peter having a memory of Walter's that he didn't know he had (knowledge that shoudln't have been there); It could explain some of what is in Olivia's head in LSD; It could explain how William Bell has seen history repeat itself over and over again; And it would also give a realistic way that these S4 characters can be brought back in line with their Season 1-3 selves through the buried memories.

[fragaria x phile]

You mean that what we saw in "the road not taken" could be still to come in the amberverse? I'm not sure .. there's Charlie in her visions.. do we know exactly what happened to him in the amberverse?
ANyway, though I doubt that Olivia's visions were of the amberverse, I really like the idea that she was seeing another iteration of the loop.

Have we learned that S4 Amberverse Charlie is dead? From what I understand, Scarlie's absence has been explained away since Kirk has been removed from the regular cast. Charlie died due to a shapeshifter and Peter was involved in that whole fight-scene. Without Peter, Charlie may be alive (of course...Peter has also covered Charlie's but before...but then again, without Peter, there might have been less dangers in the first place).

[TheOtherMe]

I think Charlie is fair game. It's possible that he still dies anyways, but considering Peter's role with the other blue Charlie's death, it may be he comes to die a slightly different way, or that perhaps he is alive. I can't remember from memory if they have mentioned him in this universe or not, but in the other red universe he is off duty with Mona...

Clearly Mr. Acevedo's absence is def felt, but I do hope that despite whatever happens with P.S., that he can return for a couple of eps, even if it is later and in any iteration of the red universe.

Random thought - in the loop, the timeline is continually rewritten until they get to this point. If past iterations of the loop remain as memories buried and "overwritten" then this could explain: Olivia's "alternate universe" vision; Peter having a memory of Walter's that he didn't know he had (knowledge that shoudln't have been there); It could explain some of what is in Olivia's head in LSD; It could explain how William Bell has seen history repeat itself over and over again; And it would also give a realistic way that these S4 characters can be brought back in line with their Season 1-3 selves through the buried memories.

Yes! This is basically what I am getting. The cortixifan attributes to the effect that Walter and Bell refered to Deja Vu, which basically would be memories of one's self over several-related life times. ---'White-Tulips' are the things/memories that get lost to the rebirth and the eventual variation each life time may bring.

(I believed nearly similar thing was happening in LOST too, but because there wasn't a PENROSE or any forth right knowledge given to the viewers, I had a tough battle to fight agianst other LOST fans, but if you apply these concepts to it, you see it would generally make up for 'the missing pieces' of all which some don't understand, as the origins of certain things would not be found in one go around, but rather supported by the transference of memories and time folds....Because You Left similar title to And Those You Left Behind ---what Kate did/What Kate does is about the progress of Kate continiously...in Follow the Leader 3 Lockes exist at the same time. Locke alive-flash through/repeat memory, Locke dead, and the smoke monster projecting the image of Locke)