Mata Hari

[number six]

Yeah. Uh. When I heard that line, "I fell right into her vagenda, " I immediately thought she seduced him. Do I like it? NO! Do I want it to have happened? NO! But it does seem to be the implication.

Exactly. We know she's not above seducing strangers if she feels it will make her mission easier. There was too much flirting going on between them and he behaved like a jilted lover. This would make his relationship with Olivia so creepy! After all he thought he was with his Olivia

[dALTnielle]

Because of this...

This would make his relationship with Olivia so creepy! After all he thought he was with his Olivia

... I simply and strongly refuse to believe that something happened between Walter and Altlivia LOL

Can you imagine how that would've played out? Walter thinking she was Olivia and that she just started hitting on him (after she knew her when she was only 3 years old) and they did stuff and then realized she wasn't Olivia and then Olivia came back and continued to have a father-daughter relationship? noooo ))
I had to write this to get the images out of my head and hopefully forget them )

Still, remember all the lines from "Entrada": "She tricked my son with her carnal manipulations and he fell right into her vagenda. Like mata hari using her feminine wiles to accomplish her evil ends. And I too fell prey. She used my stomach to get through to my heart."

So here Walter said, after comparing her to Mata Hari, that he too fell prey, using his stomach. Of course, he was talking about the food in his case, while at first he was referring to Altlivia seducing Peter, but I think that in Walter's eyes, what she did to Peter can be compared to what she did to him (it's the same thing in Walter's book): she tricked him, she seduced him (as in being all charming and fun) while offering him great food (and we know how much Walter likes food, he even has dreams with eggs playing important roles ).

The only reason they changed the "he" with the "I" was because Peter wasn't there, so it would've been weird to mention him in a history that he wasn't part of.

[number six]

But see how he used "Mata Hari" in reference to what she did to Peter, seduction (after all, that's what being a Mata Hari means), not in reference to himself. In the new timeline, he said "I fell right into her vagenda" (I don't think the "v" was added to agenda for food related stuff ) and he called her Mata Hari (again, calling someone a Mata Hari implies a certain behavior). Add to that their flirtation and I don't think it's so far-fetched to think Altlivia seduced him and that he thought it was Olivia. It is creepy, but I don't think Walter is above hooking up with much younger women and it would also explain why he's been so unnecessarily awful to Peter: jealousy. Olivia hasn't paid any attention to Peter, but he's sensing he could be a danger (by the way, John Noble explained Walter's hostility to Peter as exactly that: jealousy because of Olivia).

[dALTnielle]

I see what you mean and you make great points, but I still think it wasn't like that. He used Mata Hari and vagenda because she's an attractive young woman, she used her charming and playful behaviour and she tricked him... and he fell into her vagenda, but metaphorically speaking. And also, by actually liking Altlivia, he felt that he cheated (not in a sexual way but in a matter of feelings way) on Olivia, after he found out she wasn't her.
Maybe I just don't want it to be true because it would kind of mess up for me the Walter and Olivia new relationship. I love their relationship this season, she has a certain power over him, he listens to her, he depends so much on her. And I like to look at them like this, like a beautiful father and daughter relationship, like try're taking care of each other... But maybe that's just me...

[djoe]

I too see his use of Mata Hari and vagenda metaphorically speaking. Although they were flirting at the end lol

[heirofloki]

None of the items are sexual in nature to suggest those are all items she could of left in the lab and home to gone for the night. see the post below for more.

Again, we see different things. The items are, apparently, mostly clothing -and candy. She could...have left them in the gym, the federal building, the car, the apartment of her ghost boyfriend Wally...We don't know. Which is why, we assume what we want.

What I find interesting, is that he had access to them, kept them, and yeah, the Mata Hari thing which has been sufficiently addressed. I also think it would make for an interesting new line of character exploration -we are in the world of 'what ifs', after all. Yeah, creepy, but mostly to us, and mostly because we see them as they were before the timeline was rewritten.

by the way, John Noble explained Walter's hostility to Peter as exactly that: jealousy because of Olivia

Oh, this I must see!! LOL

[elhena]

Actually, I was re-watching earlier episodes and in 4.02 Walter said that she [Fauxlivia] tricked him with baked goods.
I kind of like her and I can't imagine her having a sexual relationship with Walter in order to achieve her goals. Even she is not that devious.

[Omniscient_Jay]

Actually, I was re-watching earlier episodes and in 4.02 Walter said that she [Fauxlivia] tricked him with baked goods.
I kind of like her and I can't imagine her having a sexual relationship with Walter in order to achieve her goals. Even she is not that devious.

Exactly.

The only reason Altlivia slept with Peter was to solidify his trust in her and perpetuate her subterfuge. Because the Walter in either timeline was "seduced" so easily by baked goods, I doubt she would have had to go that extra step and sleep with... Walter. O.o

Also, I can't imagine what purpose it would serve thematically to have Walter be Altlivia's unwitting sugar daddy (and not sugar as in candy, mind you ). What would be the point? Pushing the envelope of what can be done on network TV?

[heirofloki]

Also, I can't imagine what purpose it would serve thematically to have Walter be Altlivia's unwitting sugar daddy (and not sugar as in candy, mind you ). What would be the point? Pushing the envelope of what can be done on network TV?

You're right, of course, that the seduction needn't have gone beyond exchanging baked goods -and maybe her staying at the lab to keep him company (that explain why he had her stuff). It would be in step with everything we've seen from both characters.

That said, I do like the idea that anything is possible here, including a different kind of (one-sided) attachment between Walter and Fauxlivia (and JN really did play it the way you would with a crappy ex: "Here's your trash, take it!" LOL!!). Why? Merely for character reasons. Mostly because it assumes the existence of a different side to our Walter, one to which we've only been exposed obliquely in Momentum Defferred. Unlike our original version, this Walter exists outside of Peter's predicament, and therefore has the freedom to experience other "character moments" unrelated to the vacuum and Peter's welfare. I think maybe that's what's (in an admittedly twisted way) attractive to me about this possible scenario.

Thematically -as in what it would serve in the grand scheme of things? I've got nothing. But come on, really, I don't think anyone here is advocating a trip down memory lane. lol. Just no. We don't need to see any of that (the flirting was eye-popping enough!)

[Omniscient_Jay]

You're right, of course, that the seduction needn't have gone beyond exchanging baked goods -and maybe her staying at the lab to keep him company (that explain why he had her stuff). It would be in step with everything we've seen from both characters.

That said, I do like the idea that anything is possible here, including a different kind of (one-sided) attachment between Walter and Fauxlivia (and JN really did play it the way you would with a crappy ex: "Here's your trash, take it!" LOL!!). Why? Merely for character reasons. Mostly because it assumes the existence of a different side to our Walter, one to which we've only been exposed obliquely in Momentum Defferred. Unlike our original version, this Walter exists outside of Peter's predicament, and therefore has the freedom to experience other "character moments" unrelated to the vacuum and Peter's welfare. I think maybe that's what's (in an admittedly twisted way) attractive to me about this possible scenario.

Thematically -as in what it would serve in the grand scheme of things? I've got nothing. But come on, really, I don't think anyone here is advocating a trip down memory lane. lol. Just no. We don't need to see any of that (the flirting was eye-popping enough!)

Well, we know Walter and Olivia have closer bond due to Peter's absence, so if Walter indeed thought Altlivia was Olivia, then it makes sense that they would become "closer".

And while Altlivia seems more "liberated" than her counterpart, I don't think she is so liberated as to bed a man 30+ years her senior.

Perhaps you should write a fanfic pioneering the Walter/Altlivia pairing; you could call it "Waltlivia".