Walter's Theory on RDJ goal

[Stukov]

This is slightly borrowed from other peoples theory on that DRJ may actually be the "good guy". The war that Nick was referring to may have been a war between the future and the present and while I wouldn't ever conclude DRJ is a good guy and what not next weeks promo shows Bell may be the mastermind behind it all and I would believe he could have known what was coming with the observer/future people, something I wouldn't have believed from DRJ, so it appears Bell was using DRJ to destroy the worlds thus prevent the future and wiping them out of existence. While DRJ was probably serious in his desire to destroy the world, Bell on the other hand, is more likely bluffing. What I believed happened is that someone from the future did that whole "memory in the eye thing" that caused Walter to dream of what DRJ was going to do thereby forcing them to use the machine and prevent the catastrophe (and ruin Bell's bluff.

Besides, together the two universes could stand up to the observers, but divided they fall. Divide and conquer is a very real strategy in war.

[Lincolnsopas]

I really like your theory about Walter's dream, it's very imaginative, though unnecesary. As Walter said, unconscious mind usually works while the conscious one sleeps. I've found solution to several problems while sleeping, so it doesn't surprise me what happened to Walter. Mind works in some strange ways and is powerful enough to find solution without external help. But I really like your theory.

Jones definitely is not a "good guy" (he's done so many evil things) though maybe his goals are well-intentioned. Creating a whole new universe just for fun seems too excessive, even for a guy as megalomaniac as Jones. He has to have more powerful reasons. Preventing the war against the observers seems a good one. Or maybe he causes the invasion. Because he's creating new species, and Observers are evolved humans. Can Jones' genetic experiments the key to the birth of the observers?

[Bobbotov]

Can Jones' genetic experiments the key to the birth of the observers?

I think that may be possible. Something has to have caused them to come into existence. However, I note inconsistencies in the behavior of the Observers. At first they seem robotic and un-human like when they are just watching key moments in history. All except September who has compassion and was treated as a renegade by having done things to upset their perceived balance of the universe. But in the previous episode (Letters of Transit) they are thug-like and cruel in their subjugation of humans. Treating them like animals. In fact Windmark says to Broyles he took the job because he likes animals - a sentiment that was totally disingenuous as he is basically a warden. So something not only brought them into existence as benign at first and then something changed them into draconian masters who totally interfere with humans.<br><br>

Also, from the viewpoint of Letters of Transit, it seems obvious that the universe(s) or at least the blueverse was not destroyed so DRJ must have failed in that aspect. So he must have found another way to bring his creations to life that ultimately result in the Observers. But why would they first be benign and then evil and if this was all Jones' doing then he must be controlling the Observers somehow to fulfill his megalomaniac tendencies. But that brings up the problem of the Observers who at one time at least were omniscient not seeing what DRJ was up to all along.<br<br>

For that matter since they destroyed the Earth in 2069 and they had the ability to time travel they couldn't see the destruction of their own planet? I mean seriously, for entities that have the ability to travel freely back and forth in time they really don't seem able to make intelligent decisions based on what they learn.

[Lincolnsopas]

I don't think Obervers were good and after became evil. They are just humans, after all. Evolved humans, with different abilities, but humans after all. The same way there are good people and evil people nowadays, in the future must be pretty similar.

Fringe is a story about the unethical use of technology. I think that the Calendar Team may be the first team of scientists with the ability of travel in time. And their intentions were good: just travel, observe, collect data, be neutral, don't intervene in history. But when the observers of the 27th century poisoned the planet, they used that technology to travel back in time and find a new home. And they treated us the same way the europeans treated aborigines from America, Africa or Australia in their colonizations of other continents. Survival of the strongest. As simple as that.

[jophan]

And they treated us the same way the europeans treated aborigines from America, Africa or Australia in their colonizations of other continents. Survival of the strongest. As simple as that.

ITA. DRJ needn't have anything to do with their development. After all, Observers don't look much like porcubats.

[Bobbotov]

I don't think Obervers were good and after became evil. .

I didn't say they were good as the calender Observers, just benign and robotic. September was the only one to break the Prime Directive and interfere but otherwise they were laissez-faire and very careful about not disturbing events from their past (our present). So they went as a race from passive to highly proactive by decimating the current human race in 2015. That also creates the paradox of the calender Observers existing at the same time as the oppressor Observers who travel from the future. If they can ostensibly see past, present and future (and move accordingly) then the calender Observers would have seen or known of the invasion by their successors from the future making their passivity and non-interference pointless. And the time paradox also forbids changing anything in the past without changing the future - their future (which is what the calender Observers tried to correct when dealing with what September did with Peter). September did say something to the effect that he could see all possible future outcomes when talking about Olivia's death but he couldn't see a future where his race invades the past???

And they treated us the same way the europeans treated aborigines from America, Africa or Australia in their colonizations of other continents.

In which case they are hardly highly evolved beings. They go from being passive gods (neither good or bad) to clearly heinous demons.

[doctorclark]

I don't think Obervers were good and after became evil. They are just humans, after all. Evolved humans, with different abilities, but humans after all. The same way there are good people and evil people nowadays, in the future must be pretty similar.

Fringe is a story about the unethical use of technology. I think that the Calendar Team may be the first team of scientists with the ability of travel in time. And their intentions were good: just travel, observe, collect data, be neutral, don't intervene in history. But when the observers of the 27th century poisoned the planet, they used that technology to travel back in time and find a new home. And they treated us the same way the europeans treated aborigines from America, Africa or Australia in their colonizations of other continents. Survival of the strongest. As simple as that.

Don't know if this is a theory anyone else has, but maybe DRJ's "war" with the "other side" is his direct war against the evil observers of the future. All of his plans are to stop this evil observer future, and his use of cortexiphan subjects and his creation of porcubats or shape shifters has somehow to do with these objectives.

Maybe Walter and Olivia misinterpret his plans as being against the redverse or blueverse or both, but he's really just trying to save humanity?

[Bizarro]

I think Bell is the mastermind of the plan and he is only using DRJ ego to set things in motion to stop observers in the future. I think observers evolved because of enviromental collapse of the Earth. I mean they dont have hair which can be result of some toxins and nutrition problems, they almost lost taste which also can be result of eating really bad food and as we can see one observer drinking pure water like something realy good for him.
My theory about observers is that the callendar team or maybe just september are studiing the past to prevent poisoning earth by learning from the mistakes of the past and I think there is one big difference between observers from 4.19 from the calendar team and that is the form of their existence I mean that original callendar team actualy does not exist in our time (they dont exist in anny time because they are not limited by anny timeline or universe they actually lives out of time) but the 4.19 observers seem to be just travel to exact time to live here they fixed in here but callendar team actualy does not have that limitations

[Bobbotov]

ITA. DRJ needn't have anything to do with their development. After all, Observers don't look much like porcubats.

But didn't the porcupine develop wings and fly away in "Nothing As It Seems" (which Walter duplicated in his computer model of the evolutionary process from Lincoln's infected blood) indicating that they were evolving or mutating? It seems to me that they could keep evolving into Observers at some point since they started out as humans to begin with. In other words, the porcupine phase was only the first step in the process.

[Omniscient_Jay]

I didn't say they were good as the calender Observers, just benign and robotic. September was the only one to break the Prime Directive and interfere but otherwise they were laissez-faire and very careful about not disturbing events from their past (our present). So they went as a race from passive to highly proactive by decimating the current human race in 2015. That also creates the paradox of the calender Observers existing at the same time as the oppressor Observers who travel from the future. If they can ostensibly see past, present and future (and move accordingly) then the calender Observers would have seen or known of the invasion by their successors from the future making their passivity and non-interference pointless. And the time paradox also forbids changing anything in the past without changing the future - their future (which is what the calender Observers tried to correct when dealing with what September did with Peter). September did say something to the effect that he could see all possible future outcomes when talking about Olivia's death but he couldn't see a future where his race invades the past???

We can infer that there is a distinction between the Calendar Crew, and the rest of Observerkind.

The Calendar Crew comprises a group of scientists (led by December, it seems). They are detached and impartial because their job demands that they act as such, so as to not perturb history, and they undoubtedly have superiors to whom they report to back at Future HQ.

Which is to say, the Calendar Crew is not representative of the totality of Observerkind.

In any case, this expedition was formed to do either one of two things:

-Observe historically significant events out of pure scientific curiosity;
-Scout out candidates for historical points of invasion.

It is unclear which of these is true, but both have equally plausible implications.

In the first, September's innocent mistake caused further diversions in history, which eventually leads to the Observer 2600s potential future becoming a Dying Earth, forcing them to emigrate to 2015 and steer the past to a better future as a result.

In the second, September's mistake causes history to diverge off course, and the Observers have since been trying to correct things and steer them back to the way they were before. However, they screwed up badly, and had no choice but to initiate the rewrite. It is also here that September realizes that he is attached to Peter, and decides not to go through with his duties.

In both cases, the Observers planned on traveling to 2015 as a "desperate measure" to steer the future to one where things don't end up in the toilet, as a sort of grand-scale preventative measure, and they finally managed to do this in the rewritten timeline.

As a side note, the Observers exist independently from linear time, so they cannot foresee their own actions and those of their fellows the same way they can when observing humans. If they could, then they would not be able to surprise each other, even though they did in 2.15, 2.08, 4.01, etc.