Reply With QuoteYeah... that makes sense.
I think perhaps a more apt "personal timeline" would look like this:Originally Posted by Lij
-4.01 (as the journey would be unnecessary without Peter's presence)
-4.22 (where he is observing Jessica Holt, knowing that she was Bell's pawn)
-4.08 (informing Olivia what she told him in the future)
-4.14 (informing Peter of matter of import)
-EXILE PERIOD OF INDETERMINATE TIME
-4.15 (returns to the timeline through Peter, goes off)
-INVESTIGATION PERIOD OF INDETERMINATE TIME
-4.22 (informing Walter of what he has learned during the investigation period [i.e. The Purge])
I'm assuming that September learned of the Observer Invasion between his appearance in 4.15 and at the end of 4.22, since he was fully healed by the time of the 4.22 coda.
EDIT:
It certainly seems to be that way.
I guess this means that for this timeline, the Observer Invasion always happens by 2015, as per the WHH Principle. But if that's so, then would this not mean that the Observers are the architects of their own demise, since through WHH, the world goes to hell by the 2600s because of what they did in 2015?
Excuse me while I go cry in a corner...
I think it's less about not following rules that it is not sticking to them, to be more precise. But yes, in what is a most saddening affair, the rules are subject to change with every passing episode, and have done so more than once this season (the most prominent instance being Cortexiphan and its effects as they relate to adults, IMO).
Last edited by Omniscient_Jay; 05-11-2012 at 11:56 PM.
Yeah... that makes sense.
Here's another crazy new tidbit..
What if September was so adiment about Henrietta having to be born.. because it's Henrietta who will ultimate show an even farther in the "future" from now September.. how to make sure the invasion never happens?
So all of last season.. was to make sure the person who has to exist to stop the invasion from happen.. could be born.. yet doesn't figure out how to stop the invasion, only 20 years AFTER the invasion had already happened!
Last edited by Anothertomorrow; 05-12-2012 at 12:33 AM.
Yeah, that's a better way of putting it. I also didn't like how Olivia made a point of bringing up her specific memories of Bell and Walter experimenting on her when earlier in the show we are told she had no recollection about any of it despite having a photographic memory.
I think its all pretty easy.
The Observers are from an alternate future, not our future. They are not from our Universe. They are from Somewhere Else. They can not affect their own past, or they will cease to exist. They can affect our history in whatever way they so desire. Thats why they were Observing our history first. They had to know what they were getting into and what we were capable of. Our history is not the same as their history, any more than ours is the same as the redverse's history.
Their abilities are tech-based. They have the handheld probability machine thing to see possible futures, so they can adjust variables to produce desired outcomes.
They each live a linear personal timeline, which they always remember, regardless of what timelines and universes and time periods the intersect along the way.
They require Beacons to move between Universes.
I would expect quite a lot of Beacons to be showing up during the Invasion.
Just watched the episode :-)
I thought the September thing was rather easy too, except for different reasons perhaps, but somewhat along the same vein.
I think it's been rather obvious that they have natural abilities, but also tech based/enhanced abilities which allow them to do "much more". This has been a theme throughout Fringe via Cortexiphan, Observers, humans and their machines, the "diminishing" process theorized by Bell and Walter concerning the human brain, yada yada.
So if I stand here and flap my arms, I'm not going to fly. I need something else to allow me to do this. However Observers can flap their arms and "fly" to a certain extent (analogy), where as our current versions of humanity cannot. With tools their "flying" is enhanced and their "arm flapping" is much more dramatic and far reaching. Olivia can do it (obviously), but it's due to her Cortexiphan enhancements.
Now concerning the events we saw unfold for September in this episode, I'm hopefully going to make this post simple and to the point (to make OJ proud lol), without going into an essay again on my "meta-fate" theory, and Omega Point theory (which OJ referenced once before, but I didn't know what it was until I googled. I do believe though, after reading briefly about it, that I'm essentially describing an Omega Point in my "theory").
I think that the Observers can take into account everything that exists within the causality they can perceive and KNOW, but not in detail (Firefly). What they cannot take into account, are things which exist outside THEIR causality. Peter exists outside their causality. He has since he's re-shown up. Everything Peter interacts with, or influences, creates a new timeline that will spiral out of control, on into a future which no Observer can take into account, because it's not part of their causality until they interact with it. It's now Peter Time. Not Observer Time. Not Multiverse Time. It's PETER TIME. Again, everything he influences. He's a variable they cannot take into account, by nature of the fact that they are still subject to their own causality. At some point in the future, Peter Time will overtake all other timelines that they currently DO understand and perceive. So if you separate Peter and his "world" from everything else .... then you can see I think why the Observers are still correct in their understanding of all of time on a grander scale, but not on the smaller scale since Peter has re-bleed through. This smaller scale will grow and grow until it overtakes and transforms everything they knew and understood, from the inside out.
Bell is touching upon this "Omega Point" idea ... but he doesn't know what he's holding in his hands, because he incorrectly assumed (and still thinks I imagine) that HE is the end all, be all, Omega Point factor. But he's arguably not going to be, because he didn't take into account Peter. He has incorrectly identified who is playing dice with his universe :-)
I kept this uber short .... if it doesn't make sense, I'll be happy to explain it in mega-deets later to anyone who might want to hear it haha :-)
ETA: I should add one more thing quickly lol: this is why we see September confused, because he's more and more on "Peter Time". We can now see him making choices in Peter's past, which he is unaware of in Peter's future .... although Peter and the things he interacts with CAN be aware of it (i.e. Olivia). This is not the case with all of Peter's "history", just the recent one, since his bleed-through and "impossible" re-emergence. September is still experiencing his own linear causality, but it is growing to be woven around PETERS chain of causality. September can still do his magic, but he can't understand every variable because it's NEW. Again, all thanx to Peter. Peter is the "hub" which is creating a new timeline that September is experiencing.
Last edited by tricked; 05-12-2012 at 02:05 PM. Reason: spelling
The girl last night said, it seems like magic, but its just *TECH*. They showed us the probability device earlier in the season for a reason. They may have some innate advanced mental and kinetic powers, but it seems pretty clear that most of their more advanced abilities, including the teleportation/time travel and sorting future probabilities, are all tech-based. As they are "traveling" they are protected from rewrites, and (IMO) since they are from a different universe, they don't need to worry about as much casual/temporal stuff in our world, as their personal timeline is just moving in and out of our universe as different timelines are created. He needs his little handheld thing to do probability, and he needs to weave in and out of the future AND use his device to analyze variables to see the possible futures.
why do you say they are from a different universe? why can't they be from the future of the blue universe?
the reason why i thought they were from the future is because when peter asked who they are, September said "we are you" didn't he?
i always thought that the observers needed to save the blue universe from bell because bell would have destroyed their future as well.
i also thought that they were somehow the decendents of peter and olivia, because they said that the baby that was between peter and olivia was the correct baby, not peter and alt-liv's baby, who should have never been born.
because we have seen, obviously, that rewrite's change the future of our Universe, yet the Observers are not afraid of coming and changing *everything*. They do not seem to have any interest in trying to change things to save their future and they don't seem to have any qualms about accidentally wiping themselves out of existance. Instead, they had to observe and learn our worlds details, and are planning on completely forking the entire timeline. We also see that when our timeline has an apocolyptic future on the way (2026, or the S4 finale if September and Peter hadn't interfered), the Observers are still in existance, even with our universe(s) in a timeline ending in destruction. Obviously they are not bound by any casual chain of events in our universe/timeline, which to me heavily implies that they are from somewhere else, another universe that has the technology to cross over, a universe more advanced than ours.
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