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Thread: The First People: FINALLY FIGURED IT OUT

  1. #1
    Dabbling In Fringe Science Fringie Guitarman15's Avatar

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    Smile The First People: FINALLY FIGURED IT OUT

    It's been almost 2 years (in January) since FRINGE aired its finale. While saddening, I take great joy in knowing the story is whole. But one thing always confused me: the first people. At the end of Season 3, Peter (having seen the future) sort of "reveals" that the first people are Walter, Astrid and Ella. While it made sense within the context of the episode, I was greatly confused about the bigger picture: who built the machine in the first place?
    We already understand that Walter sends the machine back through time. It is the same machine that was dug up earlier in the season. But it had to be created somehow, right?
    Recently I decided to re-watch the entire show from start to finish (I own all 5 seasons on DVD and the whole show is on Netflix) and I recently ended Season 3. Watching the show so quickly has made me see many things I previously missed while watching the show the first time. These are the clues I found indicating who the first people really are and how the machine was built:

    • The first people discovered a machine with the power of creation and destruction
    • The first people were completely wiped out by a catastrophic event
    • The two universes are inextricably linked
    • Walter sends the machine back in time to be rediscovered in the hopes that Peter will make a different choice (This has most likely happened in a continual loop, multiple times)
    • When Walter first sees the manuscript of Peter in the machine, he tells Nina that he recognizes William Bell's design


    My theory is this! Realizing that Walternate is waging a war between the two universes, Walter Bishop and William Bell built a weapon to protect this universe (Since it had not been constructed yet, Walternate would not have brought Peter back to help with the machine, and Bell would not have died sending back Peter's rescue team). Knowing Peter had a connection to the other side, the two tuned the machine to respond only to Peter. Since he was from the other side, the machine could latch on to Peter's "signature" to specifically target it.
    Obviously, when the time came Peter destroyed the other side and caused events similar (but not necessarily identical) to the events in The Day We Died. Walter then realized the machine needed to be modified somehow and sent back through time to be discovered. After Walter sends the machine back, our universe dies, ending the first loop and creating the second.

    The First People were not the versions of Walter, Astrid and Ella that are in the episode . They were the people within the FIRST loop. Those people created the machine and wiped themselves out with it.
    It has taken me this long to figure this out! If there is something I left out or if you have any questions, please comment! Let me know what you think!
    Last edited by Guitarman15; 12-26-2014 at 02:10 AM.
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  2. #2
    Observing The Pattern Fringie

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    In the comic that Josh Jackson wrote I think it was implied that September helped Walter build it. At the end of the story when Peter has entered the Machine and has seen what could be, September appears and explains he is the paradox that must be eliminated. The older Peter that was sent back through the Central Park wormhole with the Machine to place the pieces via the impossible cypher Astrid created is brought forward and explains to the younger Season 3 Peter what the score is. It's been some time since I've read it but that's how I remember it.
    I had a fruit cocktail once. In Atlantic City.

  3. #3
    Dabbling In Fringe Science Fringie Guitarman15's Avatar

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    Well within the show, Peter figures out by talking to Walter that he had become a paradox in the S4 episode "Novation." He would have surely remembered if September had told him that. While I'm sure the comic books are great and can somewhat be considered canonical, I like to leave them out when referring to the context of the show.
    If September helped build the machine, the clues within the show support that Bell probably did also.
    Another side note! It is possible and very probable that what we view during the show could be as far as the 6th or 7th loop. Meaning that the original alterations to the machine may not have been designed to show Peter the future and were failed attempts at allowing only one universe to still survive when the other is destroyed (i.e. placing the machine in both universes).
    Last edited by Guitarman15; 12-27-2014 at 01:59 AM.
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    Observing the Observer Drawde5711's Avatar

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    Thank you for the thoughts. The many time loops that you mention, do they stem from the understanding that had September not blundered into Walternate's lab, living alternate Peter still had some important destiny related to the machine? I get it, or intuit it rather. Why do you think there were so many loops? Does not the end of a loop suggest the final destruction of both universes? What intervenes to prevent a final ending, and the gestation of another loop?
    Last edited by Drawde5711; 12-31-2014 at 04:49 AM.
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    Dabbling In Fringe Science Fringie

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    Walter and Peter have been known to say things that are later proven to be incorrect. So you really can't rely on Walter saying that he can see William Bell's design style all over the Machine or even Peter saying that Walter, Ella and Astrid created the Blueverse Machine in the first place ... although this is the most likely / plausible explanation.

    Also, I like the idea of several "loops". If we accept that in some loops some future version of Walter created the Blueverse Machine and sent it back in time, perhaps in other loops a future version of Walternate succeeded in destroying the Blueverse first, only to realise that the Redverse was inextricably linked to that Blueverse.

    As to how the Machine ended up in both the Blueverse and the Redverse when it was sent back in time, there's another Forum Thread that proposes that the Red and Blue Universe were really the same Universe that later split into the Blueverse and the Redverse.
    Last edited by EuGENE; 01-01-2015 at 05:35 PM. Reason: to clarify some point

  6. #6
    Observing The Pattern Fringie

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitarman15 View Post
    Well within the show, Peter figures out by talking to Walter that he had become a paradox in the S4 episode "Novation." He would have surely remembered if September had told him that. While I'm sure the comic books are great and can somewhat be considered canonical, I like to leave them out when referring to the context of the show.
    If September helped build the machine, the clues within the show support that Bell probably did also.
    Another side note! It is possible and very probable that what we view during the show could be as far as the 6th or 7th loop. Meaning that the original alterations to the machine may not have been designed to show Peter the future and were failed attempts at allowing only one universe to still survive when the other is destroyed (i.e. placing the machine in both universes).
    "...somewhat be considered canonical...." hahaha! I'm just giving you a hard time. The series is plagued with inconsistencies throughout but since the holes are there one can deduce what they feel is the proper sequence of events.

    I'm not a reader, collector or that big a fan of comic books, graphic novels or whatever the PC term is nowadays. I searched them out to fill my collection of my favorite show. Honestly, some of the story lines aren't all that great, back story mostly, but I really do recommend "Peter and the Machine". It was the first and as a venture by Josh Jackson, who had insight from the show's writers, really does fill the gaps left by the Season 3 finale. Just like your side note, the Peter in the Machine sees a flash forward, though oblivious to its significance, of a young boy playing in a park and shouting, "Hey Uncle Linc" as someone calls for the boy, named Henry. This is an obvious reference to Fauxlivia, alt-Lincoln and the older version of Henry who was erased by the timeline reset. Check it out on eBay, pick up a copy for yourself, I think you'll enjoy it.

    Im not not saying this or that is the way it is or one side is right or wrong. In the final analysis it's all a yarn spun for our entertainment and left for us to take away what we will. I think its great that a show off the air for two years now, not to mention an episode that aired some four years ago, still draws discussion. The extended universe of the comic books, the recent Faust novels, and earnings from syndication, DVD and iTunes sales will some day hopefully show the bean counters there's still life (and money) in the show and we'll get a movie of the search for Walter or some other such plot.
    I had a fruit cocktail once. In Atlantic City.

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