Irregularity

[Montecito]

Why the Observers are careful to not make Irregularities in Time?
And what happens when those irregularities are produced? Time change or 2 alternate timelines are created?
The timeline before the irregularity simply cease to exist or continue to exist in another reality?

[Quill]

When you make an irregularity in time, you create a paradox. To assume that time is linear means each and every universe goes from its Point A to its Point B using a straight line, with no deviations. When you create an irregularity, that means that that specific universe gets to its Point B using a convoluted line (assuming Point B can be reached in the first place due to the paradox), since something has been changed. It's like trying to cross a bridge from one end to the other during an earthquake. You may or may not make it, and things may or may not stay the same. Things are uncertain. Without the earthquake, everything follows its normal course. There's no reason for it not to. It's a completely stable timeline.

In other words, our Fringe universe (the one Olivia, Walter, and Peter 2.0) is out of whack, simply because Peter 2.0 is in it, and Bell's not. That's not what was supposed to happen naturally. (Although, to be fair, after "August" it's possible our Fringe universe may ultimately be unstable because Peter 1.0 isn't in it.) It also means that the alternate universe is out of whack because Peter 2.0 isn't in it (and Bell's in it as well). Adding a new ingredient to the recipe can either change it drastically or not at all. The problem is, you no longer know the outcome once that ingredient is added. Hence why the Observers try to maintain the equilibrium.

[0bserver]

When you make an irregularity in time, you create a paradox. To assume that time is linear means each and every universe goes from its Point A to its Point B using a straight line, with no deviations. When you create an irregularity, that means that that specific universe gets to its Point B using a convoluted line (assuming Point B can be reached in the first place due to the paradox), since something has been changed. It's like trying to cross a bridge from one end to the other during an earthquake. You may or may not make it, and things may or may not stay the same. Things are uncertain. Without the earthquake, everything follows its normal course. There's no reason for it not to. It's a completely stable timeline.

In other words, our Fringe universe (the one Olivia, Walter, and Peter 2.0) is out of whack, simply because Peter 2.0 is in it, and Bell's not. That's not what was supposed to happen naturally. (Although, to be fair, after "August" it's possible our Fringe universe may ultimately be unstable because Peter 1.0 isn't in it.) It also means that the alternate universe is out of whack because Peter 2.0 isn't in it (and Bell's in it as well). Adding a new ingredient to the recipe can either change it drastically or not at all. The problem is, you no longer know the outcome once that ingredient is added. Hence why the Observers try to maintain the equilibrium.

Wow. I just got goosebumps. AWESOME explanation!!!! LOVE IT!!!

[FieryJack]

Quill is partly right. If space-time is a linear progression then irregularities could produce paradoxons. The "traditional" way out of this is to use the alternative timeline idea. This is mathematically demonstrable.

However, the stuff about imbalance between alters due to Peter 2.0's reality switch is pure sci-fi. But that doesn't make it less interesting, it only means there is no credible scientific rationale for it.

It's all a bit irrelevant if we consider the "infinite realities" situation, because there will already be realities in which observers created irregularities. And some in which you created them, And others in which my hamster created them. In fact all possible irregularities have already been created by everyone and everything.

For the Observers comment to make sense about not making irregularities in time they must restrict themselves to one or just two or a few realities (or only two or a few exist).

[Quill]

Quill is partly right. If space-time is a linear progression then irregularities could produce paradoxons. The "traditional" way out of this is to use the alternative timeline idea. This is mathematically demonstrable.

However, the stuff about imbalance between alters due to Peter 2.0's reality switch is pure sci-fi. But that doesn't make it less interesting, it only means there is no credible scientific rationale for it.

No, if you're not following the exact same natural path then you're getting a paradox. That doesn't mean you won't get the same outcome, but the path itself HAS been altered. 2+2=4, but 1+3=4 too. But because the path has been altered, then it's going to split (one decision vs. another, like Walter explained) according to the NEW path, and what was originally intended may or may not happen. Hence the uncertainty, and why the Observers try to prevent that.

[FieryJack]

No, if you're not following the exact same natural path then you're getting a paradox. That doesn't mean you won't get the same outcome, but the path itself HAS been altered. 2+2=4, but 1+3=4 too. But because the path has been altered, then it's going to split (one decision vs. another, like Walter explained) according to the NEW path, and what was originally intended may or may not happen. Hence the uncertainty, and why the Observers try to prevent that.

I think your mixing things up. The multiple paths idea is fine and well known, it's the same an multiple realities/universes. It's mathematically calculable through logic arguments and you can get some wonderful topological representations from it.

But what I meant is that there is no mathematical (or quantum) logic for your supposition that "our Fringe universe is out of whack, simply because Peter 2.0 is in it" It's just fiction.

We could create our own logic argument based on certain assumptions, such as, Peter cannot exist in an alter universe without causing (then add some consequence). We could test what would then happen if we broke our rules. But this would be just our version and not necessarily that of the Fringe creators. It's fun though.

Ultimately, Peter's switch between alters will only have the consequences JJ gives it. It's his world and follows his rules.

[Quill]

But what I meant is that there is no mathematical (or quantum) logic for your supposition that "our Fringe universe is out of whack, simply because Peter 2.0 is in it" It's just fiction.

I'm not mixing anything up. It's simple chemistry, and scientifically proven. There's clear scientific logic to it, and it's certainly not fiction. You add an extra ingredient into the mix (particularly one that's not meant to be there in the first place), and things aren't the same as before, whether you get the same results or not. Catalysts are only one such example. A new compound another. And this doesn't even get into the Observer Effect, which could also account for the paradox caused by Peter 2.0's presence in a timeline he's not supposed to be in.

You can also show it mathematically based on series. If 2+2=4 is our original route, then the numbers progressive differently from 1+3=4.

2+2 branches out (in re: alternative timelines as each choice makes a different route) 2 ->3 ->4 ->5 AND 2 ->3 ->4 ->5 for both sides, but 1+3 branches out 1 ->2 ->3 ->4 AND 3 ->4 ->5 ->6. Clearly they aren't the same route as the original equation, hence the paradox. You may get BACK to the original route (as 1 turns into 2, which is the starting number in the original equation), but things HAVE been changed.

If you want to get technical technical, then in all actuality the Observers themselves are the ORIGINAL causes of the paradox due to the aforementioned Observer Effect.

[FieryJack]

And this doesn't even get into the Observer Effect, which could also account for the paradox caused by Peter 2.0's presence in a timeline he's not supposed to be in.

The Observer effect (and I guess you're talking about the physics version known as the "Heisenberg uncetainty principle") only says that observing an event necessitates changing it, but doesn't give you any method of calculating the effect, like quantum resolution etc. Hence Peter's moving between realities could cause a paradox, but there is no rationally scientific way of calculating it. It is still fiction.

[MoodyChem]

Maybe the Observers use Heisenberg compensators......?

[FieryJack]

Maybe the Observers use Heisenberg compensators......?

Well as I said, it's fictional so why not?


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