God and Religion in Fringe

[ag86]

Introduction

I wanted to start a discussion thread about the place God and/or religion has in Fringe.

While there have been many references throughout the series to different things, I was intrigued by these two spoiler quotes from a recent interview with Pinkner and Wyman:

TV Guide Magazine: Now, you seem to be calling back to old episodes lately. Last week, you invoked the ambered bus from Season 1's "Ghost Network." This week, we get a lot of "White Tulip" references — as well as the back story on that burnt room in the video of young Olive.
Wyman: The "White Tulip" stuff is all connected thematically because that was the episode where Walter believes in God. And that is going to come back...it's a very big part of the season finale and where Walter is going to be.
Pinkner: We've always said that we plant seeds that grow and pay dividends in later seasons, so we'll plant seeds and leave it open to discovering how.

and

Wyman: There's a good reason for it. We can't tell you now, but we're trying to do something now that nobody's ever done and we're excited for our season finale. It's something we're really excited about.

I.

It stands to reason that Fringe is going to be taking a new direction very soon, something along religious lines. So, what has been revealed so far in past episodes?

"Unearthed" in Season 2 (was unaired from Season 1) showed us that Walter has strong opinions about how the Catholic Church behaves toward the supernatural, perhaps after the "modernization" that happened in the wake of the Second Vatican Council the Church treated demonic possession as superstition. We also hear how Peter is a skeptic to things religious and Olivia remarks about her mother's faith which didn't protect her from her abusive stepfather.

In "Peter" it seems that Walter and Elizabeth give Peter from Over Here a Christian burial by a Catholic (or Anglican?) priest.

In the beginning of Season 2, we have the appearance of Agent Amy Jessup who does research along religious lines into Fringe occurrences. She then disappears, seemingly written out of the show.

In "White Tulip" we realize that Walter only believed in God when he did the unthinkable and crossed into a parallel universe to steal Peter. He beleived that he was being punished by God for this and asked for His forgiveness, which he receives at the end of the episode via Dr Alistair Peck, who has a different concept of God (to which I will return later).

In "Over There Part I" Olivia gives her mother's cross to her niece Ella which Rachael rightfully understands to be because Olivia is undertaking a dangerous mission.

In "The Abducted" we learn that because of the Blight in the Alt-Universe, many new religious movements and even cults have sprung up in response to the need for an explanation/savior from the destruction of the universe.

II.

That's my best recollection of explicit religious themes during the series. Please respond if I've missed anything!

My next item to throw into the mix is an understanding of the word "God" that is not often used in common parlance. Usually, we take the word "God" to mean a figure somehow resembling the Judaeo-Christian-Islamic Creator Who has revealed Himself in history through the Prophets/Jesus of Nazareth/Mohammed.

However, there is another understanding of God that undercuts ALL religions and philosophies. Borrowing from the book The Religious Sense, I want to throw in there that the author explains that man's desire for happiness, truth, beauty, justice, meaning, goodness, ultimately is a desire for something outside of, beyond, everything we experience. He calls the the thing that every person longs for "Mystery". Mystery then, somehow a "person", but ultimately beyond our capacity to know because we are human, therefore finite, unable to go beyond into Infinity.

If this is unclear, I can elaborate further, but I wanted to say that the recognition of Mystery is something more existential and philosophical than it is explicitly Jewish/Christian/Muslim/Buddhist/etc. It's the answer to the question that my avatar, Albert Camus, says must be posed before all philosophical inquiry, "Why shouldn't I kill myself now?" It's the recognition that we are made with a desire for fulfillment that we didn't decide for ourselves and cannot get rid of.

In other words, whatever we freely choose to do, we freely choose in order to be happy. I order pancakes instead of scambled eggs because they're tastier. I ask one girl to the prom instead of another because she's prettier/more fun, etc. In an extreme example, I might want to commit suicide because somehow I or the world will be happier--I will find 'rest', the world will be without me.

Bringing these two concepts of Mystery as "God" instead of an old, bearded man in the sky, and the understanding that within every single choice is the desire for happiness, the multiple universes of Fringe are quite interesting.

III.

More speculation, but some spoilers about an upcoming episode, might shed some light on how the Fringe writers will face these sort of "ultimate questions" that have come up so far. This is not a "spoiler" forum, so let's not discuss those things, unless a Moderator should want to move this discussion to the spoiler forum.

ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE so I wanted to bring out a discussion on these themes of Fringe. Broaching these things in an interesting way is one of the many reasons why I have loved this show! Please, I might not be clear and I may have missed a couple things, so feel free to respond!

[tricked]

Dude I'll probably come back to this thread and add some more thoughts ... but I wanted to respond quickly and just toss a few cents in there:

* Fringe is RIFE with religious elements. All throughout. And purposefully so. It's almost hard to separate the exploration of the "unknown" from spirituality, because the god that society is coming to know more and more on a daily level is the "god of the gaps" ... the god that exists hidden in the cracks of what we do NOT know, whilst we think what we know we have figured out and is missing a god alltogether, apart from laws of physics

That having been said, I think pointing out individual moments where spiritual themes are used in Fringe would take up more than a single thread could hold lol. The direct references, however .... those are interesting and allude to what I assume the writers are ultimately going to tell us in the finale of the series.

* And having just said that lol .... and reading your post, I'm assuming the writers are basically going to either attempt to prove or disprove the existence of god in the series. Directly. Now .... what they will end up with as being the "apex force" in the universe? That is something I could easily guess at .... but it sounds almost too cheezy to even mention. lol Needless to say, I think overall that the fans are going to be pleased with Fringe as a whole ... but it's final message is going to be less than spectacular to most people. It will be thought provoking to some, and anti-climatctic to others

It will basically be like opening Abram's mystery box and having him tell you what the emptiness inside of it means

* So ... I think the concept of Mystery as god already exists in Abram's productions and projects. I'm pretty sure you're getting close to one of the ultimate "points" of Fringe by bringing it up in this thread

And we see, in the characters, that each one of them reacts differently to that Mystery. Some find Mystery to be sacred .... something which is so valuable that it needs to remain hidden and unspoken of within their hearts and minds. Others mock it. Others think it's a call to arms.

Others think it is something to be dissected .... sometimes to find the benefit of it, other times out of malice and disillusionment with it.

And some .... merely embrace it and let it flow through them and they it ... becoming an extension of it. Heroes of it. The embodiment and representation of it.

Children of it

[gillybee]

If its taking a religious turn maybe Agent Jessop is on her way back on our screens?

[ag86]

If its taking a religious turn maybe Agent Jessop is on her way back on our screens?

Exactly what I was thinking!

[tricked]

If its taking a religious turn maybe Agent Jessop is on her way back on our screens?

And I was thinking the same thing

But what poor form! I mean, what has she been doing all this time to stay abreast and relevant to the cases which she has no longer been privy to? Is she just obsessing away in some corner, scribbling notes in her personal bible studies to figure out clues/patterns/daVinci codes?

But she is hot, so I'm not gonna protest lol ....

[RETLAW]

I've read the TV Guide quotes and all the other quotes/spoilers about this from W&P and I don't think this is a direction at all, but rather goes back to Walter's personal convictions and how they will affect him and his personal decisions down the line.

The seed, as W&P would say was planted in "White Tulip". The conversation* between him and Peck illustrate Walter's faith in God is reinforced through what he has seen, and ultimately this humanistic aspect will influence Walter, and his decisions, not the direction of the show.

(*transcript of that conversation pasted below)

I don't see anything in any of the interviews suggesting more than that, certainly not an overtly "religious direction" for the show. Incidentally Fringe has always included the spiritual in the equation of the show. The Walter/Peck conversation* eloquently sums that view up and faith has been a component throughout the series.



--------------*from "White Tulip"--------------------------------

WALTER: I'm telling you how to do this, but I'm telling you - you cannot do it.



ALISTAIR PECK: I must do it.



WALTER: You'll never be able to live with the consequences.



ALISTAIR PECK: I told you, no one will die.



WALTER: (standing. resolute) That's not the consequences I'm talking about. I, too, attempted the unimaginable, and I succeeded. I crossed into another universe, and took a son that wasn't mine. And since then, not a day has passed without me feeling the burden of that act. (sits) I'm going to tell you something that I have never told another soul. (tactical squad charges into the building and down the corridor) Until I took my son from the other side, I had never believed in God. But it occurred to me... that my actions had betrayed him and that everything that had happened to me since was God punishing me. So now I'm looking for a sign of forgiveness. I've asked God for a sign of forgiveness. A specific one, a white tulip.



ALISTAIR PECK: Tulips don't bloom this time of year -- white or otherwise.



WALTER: But he's God. And if God can forgive me for my acts then maybe... it's in the realm of possibility that my son, possibly, may be able to forgive me too.



ALISTAIR PECK: (certain) Walter, God is science. God is polio and flu vaccines and M.R.I. machines, and artificial hearts. If you are a man of science, then that's the only faith we need. (assault team closes-in)



WALTER: Then allow me to serve as a precautionary tale. There will be repercussions if you pull Arlette from that car. You don't know how things will be changed by your actions, but they will. It's not our place to adjust the universe. And you will never be able to look at her again without knowing that, just like every time I look at my son. I have traveled through madness to figure this out. And you will too.



ALISTAIR PECK: You're asking me to just leave her there.

[TheOtherMe]

I too have limited time to post everything that I would want to, but I agree that these themes are coming to helm, as I think FRINGE is going to start exploring 'fear of the unkown' (death) and ideas pertaining to life after death and immortality in terms of entanglement and/or relativity in the FRINGE universes.

Just a quick shout out to William Bell as "bells" are often used in time of commemoration, since not being remembered is one biggest human fears, it is often times correlated with theological, mythological, and religious themes, such as deaths, weddings, and communion.

Bells are also use as types of measurements or annoucements such as in times of invasion or war.



With "white tulip" we can only take Pecks actions so far because we get into a conundrum of not being able to see the outcomes of the other timelines Peck leaves behind when he travels to make a new one. If anything perhaps it emphises that we are own gods and we have to choose for what purpose we are playing for. It seems love, compassion, redemption, and acceptance is must, even if we never come to know in FRINGE 'a god' that is not but ourselves---the interactions of us through space and time and trying to find balance and dignity.

[tricked]

I too have limited time to post everything that I would want to, but I agree that these themes are coming to helm, as I think FRINGE is going to start exploring 'fear of the unkown' (death) and ideas pertaining to life after death and immortality in terms of entanglement and/or relativity in the FRINGE universes.

Just a quick shout out to William Bell as "bells" are often used in time of commemoration, since not being remembered is one biggest human fears, it is often times correlated with theological, mythological, and religious themes, such as deaths, weddings, and communion.

Bells are also use as types of measurements or annoucements such as in times of invasion or war.



With "white tulip" we can only take Pecks actions so far because we get into a conundrum of not being able to see the outcomes of the other timelines Peck leaves behind when he travels to make a new one. If anything perhaps it emphises that we are own gods and we have to choose for what purpose we are playing for. It seems love, compassion, redemption, and acceptance is must, even if we never come to know in FRINGE 'a god' that is not but ourselves---the interactions of us through space and time and trying to find balance and dignity.

And so many of those things you listed: love, compassion, acceptance, redemption .... they require faith in order to operate in. Not even a faith in a higher being is necessary .... rather, just faith in yourself and the one whom you love and who loves you, and faith in that love and compassion and acceptance. Hope and trust in it, even when it might seem otherwise ...