The 7th Dimension - Two Realities

[D-Roc]

Please note - I don't profess this theory to be correct, it is probably extremely far wide of the mark, and open to a massive leap of faith. However I have noticed a few elements from the opening 4 episodes, which I hope to be able to build upon with any feedback or contributions/critisms and of course, future episodes from which to gleam further information from.

CREATION

Imagine a time when life was first created. Some call it the big bang - the event which spawned our Universe and the life within it. Others, myself included, believe in the creator of all things (AKA GOD). Whatever your belief, imagine not one big bang, or moment of creation..but TWO.

I believe that Fringe will explore the dimentional convergance or, the 7th dimension - the line between two realities. Where realities meld together to allow different objects, events and patterns to occupy the same 'space' within different time frequencies.

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Imagine The Possibilities

In the 7th dimension all things are still possible. You could die in this reality..



...yet be alive in the shadow reality. So your spirit is still here, waiting, watching, observing:



Once you've pushed your head through the door and you've become aware of the other side, it must be there, since you've observed it, you've seen it. (Has William Bell seen it? Where's he at?)

Technology & Science - Ahead of The Curve

I believe that science that technology from the likes of Massive Dynamic, and the numerous other entities in the show, have found a way to push mankind beyond the level of capability that we should have. However, not all of the technology is organically derived - some of it consists of encrypted ancient technology and artifacts which have been cracked and decoded by advanced technologies from then future.

This has caused a destabilization in the world. We have technology that is too powerful for those without the responsibility to use it wisely. However, the technology has also given us hope..hope that we can save ourselves from the impending castastrophe that awaits our world. But more on that later.

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The Observer
The Observer is a future representation of mankind..a future where reality has no longer exists on the plain of emotion. He and his people are trying to understand where it went wrong for our world. They are observing our reality to reconnect their future knowledge and to help us avert the impending disaster that will change the face of humanity. Their observation of our reality ensures that reality as we know it exists. Their task is to identify those key to safe-guarding the future realities of mankind. To be updated.

Back to Reality

But how can these two realities be linked? ..is there a link? I'd say yes - "cause and effect". The very reason we look for patterns, to attempt to make sense of our actions or the actions of others. Is this what our Observer is doing - observing the stream of patterns which flow between our two realities?



Are the events in our world, part of another reality also?

Do they suffer for our greed? Are the faults in our world, the consequence of theirs? Is there a link..a pattern?

But what IS the 7th dimension..

I believe that in itself, this line, this 7th dimension, is a gateway - a door, or perhaps a 'state' - similar to a dream state. The place where the mind is free from the body. An open-mind means an open gateway. I believe we've already seen signs of this 7th dimension opening and closing:





When Olivia and John's 'minds' are occupying the same space, there are different memories (time) converging..an example of objects (or entities) occupying the same space in different time realities. Notice all the blue lights? As has been discussed elsewhere on the forum, these lights appear all over the place in real-time. Yet they also appeared during the dream state - a gateway between two minds:



Is this blue light therefore indicative of a gateway..the 7th dimension..two realities? If something is not part of 'our' timeline, then it makes sense for us to only see a glimmer before the frequency disconnects. Is this what the blue lights represent?

On a related note: Walter's description of the night that The Observer rescued himself and Peter seemed very angelesque - a hand from up above pulling them from the river of despair. "Heavenly.. yet also earthly" (just like a rootbeer float after 17 years).

Now bear in mind what Walter said to Peter about reconsidering the way in which we communicate - if thought alone can knowingly or unknowingly plant seeds in another persons head, imagine the possibilities of positive thought, goodwill, prayer..and all of the opposites.

I suspect, if the writers do ever plan on taking the show in this direction and tackling the idea of 'God', that this is how they may approach it. The above mentioned episode 4 scene between Peter and Walter has explicitly informed us that in Fringe, at least, humans are more connected than we might otherwise think.

Connections..connections that lead to a pattern..patterns that link two realities. But like I mentioned last week in my 'We Are The Observers' thread - what is a reality, if it is not observed..if a tree falls in the forest and there is no-one there to observe it, has it really fallen..and is there really a forest?..

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Further evidence of dimensional convergance was seen in episode 1.09 "The Dreamscape". Upon returning to the tank to actively retrive more living memories from that of John Scott, Olivia enters into her unconscious, there she revisits a scene from her and John's first date. It's important to note that this visitation is full of flashing blue lights (like those mentioned above), and that the start of her 'dream state' consists of 'space' and what I believe to be a physical and sybolic 'doorway':




I believe that the blue flashes are further evidence of realities (or dimensions) fusing together. The intensity of the flashes might be indicative of the strength of the link between the realties at any given point, or they could be the result of the refraction caused by the covergance of different light frequencies.

[Wondermind]

Originally Posted by D-Roc

The place where the mind is free from the body.

Sounds like astral projection. I use to do studies on this in my early college days.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astral_projection

Good stuff here overall D-Roc! A lot to digest but your thoughts definately have merit. Hopefully, we can expound on this as time goes on. I will add to this later but now it is late and I am sleepy.

[Wondermind]

OK, it’s morning and I’m awake now.


I like your thought process as you bring in the possibility of the 7th dimension aspect. It is as most physicist theorize, the point in which all possible realities converge, merge or split off depending on your reference point. As I had stated as well on other post along this line of thought, is that I feel there may be alternate realities or parallel universes that split off from our own. Are we living in the Alpha section and all others are mirror images of ours. Or are we just copies or doppelgangers of one created prior to our existence, who knows. I find the whole thing intriguing anyway. For every action there is a reaction, cause and effect as you stated, yin and yang, proton and anti-protons, matter and anti-matter, visible matter and dark matter, Alpha and Omega, ect ect…..! I like how you tie all your thoughts together and bring them back into the plausibility of the 7th dimension concept.
But let me end by saying this, as in the concept of Alpha and Omega if you will, life, nature and reality moves in circles. We start with the 0th dimension and end with the 10th which in effect is the beginning again.

http://morenews.blogspot.com/2006/09/7th-dimension-is-infinity.html
- The 0th dimension is the dot. You don't need any numbers to identify its position.
- The first dimension is the line. You need one number to identify the distance of one dot to another dot.
- the second dimension is the plane. You need two numers to identify a point on a plane.
- space is the third dimension
- space time is the fourth dimension: it requires four numbers to place a dot in space-time. 3 for the spacial position, and one for the time.
- The 5th dimension is the first dimension in which the notion of possible worlds starts needing to be used. One requires 7dimensions to cover all the possible worlds that would have started from the same initial conditions as ours.
- The other dimensions cover the possible worlds that start with different initial conditions as ours.
- The tenth dimension where we stop because we have by then covered all imaginable possible worlds, so there is not further place we can conceiveably go.

Another good site:
http://www.tenthdimension.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=770

This is a good thread. I hope it continues.

[goodfellabrasco]

Interesting stuff! I love the theory, but I'm unsure as to how far the Fringe writers are going to take it...it seems like the "fringe" topics in each episode are at least grounded in regular science; interdimensional crossings might be a bit heady even for this show. Although...the theory holds promise with the John Scott dead/undead? mind only undead? scenario. I'm excited to see what other thoughts the fringe blog holds on this topic!

[D-Roc]

You know, I thought I'd replied to this! Thanks for the above contributions to this theory, I'll reply to them right after I've posted this as a reminder for an update:




Worm-holes and gateways from another (7th?) dimension possibly confirmed in episode 1.08 - The Equation.

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Wondermind

Sounds like astral projection. I use to do studies on this in my early college days.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astral_projection

It is quite similar to Astral projection, and I'm confident that this will be involved in some level (perhaps it already has with Walter's "visitor" appearing in The Equation. Although in regards to the gateway or dimension, I see it more as an opening and closing (or 'shrinking) between the different levels of consciousness, from the physical interactions and observations, to the subconscious explorations. I agree though, Astral Projection could fit in here somewhere.

Originally Posted by Wondermind

OK, it’s morning and I’m awake now.


I like your thought process as you bring in the possibility of the 7th dimension aspect. It is as most physicist theorize, the point in which all possible realities converge, merge or split off depending on your reference point. As I had stated as well on other post along this line of thought, is that I feel there may be alternate realities or parallel universes that split off from our own. Are we living in the Alpha section and all others are mirror images of ours. Or are we just copies or doppelgangers of one created prior to our existence, who knows. I find the whole thing intriguing anyway. For every action there is a reaction, cause and effect as you stated, yin and yang, proton and anti-protons, matter and anti-matter, visible matter and dark matter, Alpha and Omega, ect ect…..! I like how you tie all your thoughts together and bring them back into the plausibility of the 7th dimension concept.

Great stuff, you're definitely intune with my line of thinking on this. In truth, these alternate realities or dimensions, may only appear alternate because so few people are able to observe them with any rational findings. However, with technology pushing us onto new platforms and through new frontiers, it's becoming less and less easy to seperate these 'mediums', if you will. Could the blue flashes referenced in the top post, be an indication of the closeness of the various dimnesions- almost like how an eclipse represents the closeness of the moon as it crosses between our earth and the sun?..

You raise a good point - which universe or dimension are we living in..and which ones are the mirrors? Could this also be why Olivia is so important - are there other Olivia's in other dimensions who have some enourmous importance in thier respective spheres? Of course, the thought of this might be too 'alien' for some people, but speaking in technological terms and going from what we've seen in these eight episodes (including the 'alta-Water', as his alternate version has been dubbed), could these *speculated* dimensions be created by mankind - perhaps future generations who existense in a future time-line has created somekind of ripple-down effect, causing the rate and speed of technology today to be more exponetitial than it should be. Allowing us to worlds and verses' that are there but should be there just yet.

But let me end by saying this, as in the concept of Alpha and Omega if you will, life, nature and reality moves in circles. We start with the 0th dimension and end with the 10th which in effect is the beginning again.

http://morenews.blogspot.com/2006/09/7th-dimension-is-infinity.html
- The 0th dimension is the dot. You don't need any numbers to identify its position.
- The first dimension is the line. You need one number to identify the distance of one dot to another dot.
- the second dimension is the plane. You need two numers to identify a point on a plane.
- space is the third dimension
- space time is the fourth dimension: it requires four numbers to place a dot in space-time. 3 for the spacial position, and one for the time.
- The 5th dimension is the first dimension in which the notion of possible worlds starts needing to be used. One requires 7dimensions to cover all the possible worlds that would have started from the same initial conditions as ours.
- The other dimensions cover the possible worlds that start with different initial conditions as ours.
- The tenth dimension where we stop because we have by then covered all imaginable possible worlds, so there is not further place we can conceiveably go.

Another good site:
http://www.tenthdimension.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=770

This is a good thread. I hope it continues.

Very interesting! So is this 'loop' (if you will) pre-destined? If so, could the technology and science in Fringe be ahead of where it should be, have they found a way to 'jump' ahead of natures wand?

Originally Posted by goodfellabrasco

Interesting stuff! I love the theory, but I'm unsure as to how far the Fringe writers are going to take it...it seems like the "fringe" topics in each episode are at least grounded in regular science; interdimensional crossings might be a bit heady even for this show. Although...the theory holds promise with the John Scott dead/undead? mind only undead? scenario. I'm excited to see what other thoughts the fringe blog holds on this topic!

I agree, we're stepping into unknown territory with this thread. I'm under no illusions that this could be a bit 'much', even for Fringe. But the more I see the more prepared I am to see where this takes us. Of course the 'alter Walter' seen in 1.08, also gives me hope that this thread isn't too far out.

[theVOID]

Great theory as per usually D-Roc.

Just one thing, why the 7th Dimension specifically? is there a theory you have read pertaining to a specific 7th dimension with a unique function? Or is it just a catchy name?

Just asking because i can see no relation to an actual previously hypothesized 7th dimension, i am assuming you are eluding to what is commonly known as the The dimension of consciousness

The Dimension of Consciousness is supposedly the dimension where all intelligence exists, the dimension where our mind exists, completely unattached to the body that resides within the 3 dimensions of space. This is the dimension that many religions refer to as something along the lines of "holy spirit" or the space where the "true self" or the "universal consciousness" resides.

A lot of thinking regarding this theory was spurred by the evidence that while the brain is capable of calculating, storing, interpreting and directing the flow of information, there is still no real evidence to show why we are capable of though, something that even the most powerful machines are not able to do. they can follow instructions, but the supercomputers will never just feel like painting a picture, writing a song, going on a date. Thought is the only thing that separates man from machine.

One of my own ideas that i am planning to use for a sci-fi novel is that the conscious dimension is where we really live, all intelligent beings (this would in my idea exclude animals, only true intelligent beings such as humans, or intelligent alien life or machines capable of processing true intelligence reside)

In this world we interact with the 3 dimensions of space through our physical being, our brain and body. Each part of the body, your eyes, mouth, tongue, taste, hearing, touch, limbs EVERYTHING is merely a peripheral just like a mouse on a computer, its sole job is to interact with the environment and send back to the brain electrical signals. This information is all processed by the brain, which is used solely to store and interpret data.

Once the information has been interpreted the brain it is in the form of electrons, different subatomic particles within the electron (such a quarks and leptons, or even down as far as string theory) correspond to different symbols (like 1s and 0s can be arranged to make bits), which freely pop in and out of existence (as they do in the real world, electrons and other sub atomic particles are constantly popping in and out of existence, when they are gone nobody knows where they go, the other particles pop back, and we don't know where from).

Particles go into the conscious dimension where we (our consciousness) processes it, once we have decided what to do with the information we send it back to the brain, which then instructs our bodies to act accordingly.

Without giving too much away, something is going wrong with the conscious dimension, it begins causing random fluctuations in spacetime , causing people near by to vanish, but not everyone... a very very limited number of people survive the encounters (i wonder why)

It will deal with Multiple worlds, time travel, the end of the world, "ghosts", androids, genetically modified people (maybe they are engineered to keep up with the machines?) conspiracy, psychics, fate and a fist fight between Jesus and The Buddha (just kidding) as well as putting forward my own theory on how multiple universes are connected, not just floating around in an 11 dimensional spacetime as theorized, but connected to a single membrane that is the conscious dimension, as if there is one dimension of consciousness for all of the infinite number of universes.

But it sounds to me that your supposed 7th dimension is the conscious dimension.

[theVOID]

Originally Posted by D-Roc

You know, I thought I'd replied to this! Thanks for the above contributions to this theory, I'll reply to them right after I've posted this as a reminder for an update:




Worm-holes and gateways from another (7th?) dimension possibly confirmed in episode 1.08 - The Equation.

Actually!!!!! That model demonstrates a wormhole "shortcut" between space and time!

Look at that oval that is separated by the wormhole, the model is used to show how two spaceships flying around a ring (or just in a straight line if you can picture that) takes, say, 100 years to complete, after 30 years travel they come to the wormhole, one ship enters the wormhole while the other continues around the loop. After 70 years the two ships meet up just outside the other end of the wormhole, for the ship that went the long way it, their clock shows that it has been 70 years, but for the ship that went through the wormhole only seconds have passed, this is because of the time dilation inside the wormhole.

The two ships would dock and when the crews met, the pilots from wormhole ship would find that their friends aboard the other ship has died, but still sit down and have a beer with the children of their friends who they took off with.

So it's not actually time travel, but a shortcut through space and time.

And another point. You can not have a wormhole to another "dimension" because a dimension is simply a small realm of influence inside our own reality, it isn't a separate entity, we are already "in" that dimension, that is to say, we always exist inside that dimension as defined by the influence of that dimension on our reality, even if it is a dimension that is only noticeable at a quantum level.

So there would be no way of going to this other dimension exclusively because our physical body can only exist in the 3 dimensions of space, and all events occur in spacetime, it would be impossible to do anything inside this one dimension, even if you could exist there in "spirit", because this dimension is not time.

I think we have to take into account real theories and ideas from science and pseudoscience when looking at anything from the abramsverse, just because everything he comes up with is rooted in the real theoretical works of various scientists and the laws and rules of General relativity and major quantum mechanical laws, i don't think he would write anything outside of what is, because when writers start making up their own dimensional/quantum theories they usually end up being completely ridiculous and somewhat of a joke, and our friend JJ is too smart for that.

[Fringeling]

Awesome concepts D-Roc and co. You should be careful --- there are some cultures that might be prone to worship you

Some of these theories remind me of the Russian based Night Watch book/movies mythos. I don't want to spoil it (in case you haven't read the book or seen any of the movies), however they deal with 7 levels of reality. The different levels are collectively referred to sometimes as the Twilight, but most often as the Gloom. Only people known as Others may enter the Gloom, and most can only go so far into the different levels. SPOILER: each level has certain characteristics, the first few would mostly have characteristics we would consider "Dark" both spiritually and physically, the later of which are more occupied by color and "light" --- again both spiritually and physically. I belive it is the fourth level which is inhabited by all Others who die. The seventh level is actually the same as the level we all exist in, however only one person (I believe) is capable of entering all of the levels to circle back into our own via the seventh. The mythos overall is definitely more rooted in fantasy, but some of the parallels are interesting.

I really like D-Roc's thinking about converging dimensions/realities. That would even explain some of the spontaneity of unrelated "geniuses" being inspired to work on complex equations/theories at the same time explored in The Equation. Perhaps an alternatie converging reality is influencing the minds of our own, sparking people like Ben and Daschel's minds to work on things like The Equation.

Oooh, here's a thought! ------

An interesting observation considering alternate dimensions ------ when Walter was talking to Olivia about the residue of John she was experiencing, he told her that her mind was trying to purge itself of John because the two shouldn't exist together. Applying this to the concept that there is an alternate reality converging on our own might further explain the reason for Daschell's and Ben's obsession with The Equation. What if their minds are sensitive to the alternate dimension (for whatever reason, be it a brush with death or whatever). However, their minds cannot co-exist with this dimension anymore than Olivia's can with John's. In an attempt to "purge" itself of the alternate reality (or harmonize the two instead), the mind -- like a computer ---- begins to systematically find a way to do this. The result of it's attempts are the obsession with things such as The Equation by various individuals. The Equation, and perhaps most quantum mathematic breakthroughs in the Fringe universe, are the result of the COLLECTIVE concioussness' computational reasoning in solving the dillema and paradox of the two alternate dimensional realities converging together in the same space ! In other words, LIFE is trying to balance itself, like a mathmatical checkbook. The various "geniuses" who are sensitive to this paradox are contributing (conciouslly and unconciously) to this balancing. Perhaps everyone is without realizing it, however it is more pronounced in scholastic individuals due to their ability to function "higher".

I'm kind of rambling, and I don't know if I am describing what I'm thinking well

Perhaps some (not all) of the Pattern is the end result of these two converging realities. Cattle with human organs, people swapping "concioussness". Some of the Pattern definitely appears influenced by man-made scienctific achievments (i.e. The Ghost Network, the rapidly grown clone kids, the chick with the exploding head, etc.), but perhaps not all of it is man-made ------ at least not man-made in our dimension.

-----

My guess, however, is that if alternate dimensional realities are going to be confirmed in Fringe, it will not be until several seasons down the road. The concept would be essentially the root basis for the show in which almost it's entire mythos would derive. Confirming this idea early on would destroy a lot of the shows mystique. It would be simliar to the X-Files confirming the existence of extra-terrestrials in the first season ------- it would have destroyed the mystery of the storylines involving aliens for the show, and they would have had to stick to their other plots.

Just some random thoughts. I too should go to sleep now !!

[Fringeling]

More random thoughts:

I too thought there was a signifficant link between the blue lights appearing in Olivia and John's "linkage" and their appearances elsewhere outside of synaptic transfers.

At first, I postulated they were the result of the electrical conduction of the synaptic transfers taking place between Olivia and John and in their own respective "minds", and what we were witnessing was their lightening flashes so to speak.

But now, considering the idea of alternate dimensions of conciousness/reality, I'm looking at the characteristics of what the blue lights are associated with:

When Olivia and John are "connected", apparently they can only enter each other's conciousness. If they could enter everyone elses conciousness, they would have access to everyone's knowledge and memories, not just being limited by their own. Therefore, the conciousness of individuals seem to exist in a certain "level" or wavelength. In other words, to be connected to John, Olivia's Alpha, Beta, gamma, and Theta waves needed to be the same as John's. Once they were, Olivia had access to John. It's not that they were "entering each other's minds", but they were communicating at a certain collective wavelength with other.

So, once this connection was "severed", why can Olivia still access John? Where is his residue residing? AFter all, our brain waves (meausred in Alpha, BEta, Gamma, and Theta) vary. They are not always the same frequencies. They are not a "fingerprint", never changing yet unique to us. The idea, I am assuming, is that her neural pathways "downloaded" amounts of John's memories by forming a synaptic grid (like our brains supposedly do for all memory and function) which she can still use to access John's memories. But where is John the "person"? Why does she still have to go through "John" just to get to his memories? If she dies, does the rest of John die with her?

Apparently, memory (even osmotic memory) can be interpreted by others. This is essentially what John Mosley appeared to be doing. He was interpreting the signals put out by Peter and the other guy (harmonically?) These signals and memories were apprently accessed by causing certain emotional responses in individuals (based off of the Rogue's questions).

So, combinbing all of this data -------- memory, conciousness, and emotion being tied to frequency, the Beacon vibrating at frequencies, the blue lights existing around all of them and the Observer having blue lights around him -------- can we postulate that the Observer is "vibrating" at a certain frequency as well? Or emmitting a certain frequency? He appears to have this ability, as he could "connect" to Peter and Walter's minds. He was even MIMICKING (sp) PETER'S EMOTIONS (a link to the Rogue using emotion to spark peoples memories he was interpreting). So unless he had "burned" their synaptic frequency grids into his mind at some point in the past (as I speculate in other threads as to why I think he is part of WIlliam Bell), he has the ability to link with others frequencies. And he has the blue lights around him. And he appears to be more than just an interactive hologram ---- after all he eats adn can be knocked down and caught off guard.

So these blue lights would appear to be further evidence there is some sort of dimensional plain of existence ------ accessed by tuning into frequencies, since everything resonating in certain frequencies appears to have these blue lights.

Wow, I was rambling !